Plasmas

[graf1k]

How great is the different between the Elite Kuros and the 'regular' Kuros? From what I've read it's basically a difference in picture tweaking features which doesn't sound right considering the vast cost difference.

[My_Two_Cents]

Originally Posted by graf1k

Figured I'd ask here rather than make a new thread.

So I've been in the market for a new HDTV and originally went with the 46XBR6 and was satisfied with everything but the size so I sent it back. I had planned on going with the 52XBR6 and calling it a day but I've noticed that the Pioneer 5020FD Kuro came down in price to where it's actually less than the 52XBR6 and so I went and finally saw one (the Kuro) in action and was pretty blown away by the picture. I'm considering it quite heavily but I am a little outside of my comfort zone with plasmas as thus far I've only owned LCDs and generally been quite happy with them. So is there any way in which LCDs have Plasmas beat? Handling of motion, response time, longevity, build quality, playback of SD signals, anything? This is going to be it for me for probably another 2 years and I want to get it right.

Thanks.

No, No, No, No and No

LCDs do not suffer (too much) from image retention, but then it's really not an issue with plasams either as IR goes away quickly when watching moving images. LCDs seem to do better in rooms that have a lot of direct sunlight shining on/near your TV. I know in the middle of the day, I have sun shining directly on my living room plasma, and it makes watching the thing very difficult. Fortunately, we rarely watch that set during the day. LCDs are lighter, if that matters to you. They use less electricity, but over the course of a year you are only looking at ~$50 more (assuming 8hrs on every day). For all things picture quality related, plasma outperforms LCD every time.

Let the games begin.

[Pelican170]

Originally Posted by Ricshoe

Where do people come up with this stuff?

To elaborate on what Crack said, today's plasmas will last 60K hours or more (some new Panys are claiming 100K hours) before the picture deteriorates to HALF the original brightness. Do the math. You'll upgrade/replace the set long before you come close to that number.

hey, im pretty sure it was 10,000 hrs before half life brightness, but if its 100,000 then good for me!

Edit - Nevermind, i guess it is 100,000 hrs due to replys from people, which makes me very happy!!!

[RogerR]

I'll second (or third) the recommendation to get the 50" Kuro. I just bought one from BB. I've had it about 3 weeks and I love it. I wouldn't spend the extra on the Elite model. While the base model doesn't allow the user to set picture temperature, the Movie mode works beautifully for blu-rays and dvds with no tweaking required. I've also discovered that for watching local HD channels on Cable, the Standard mode works well, with a little tweaking. SD cable channels are OK, but there's only so much you can do given the quality of the source material.
I had initially purchased the 52" Sony xbr6, but sent it back within days. On any brightness setting over 52, the screen background was covered with green electronic lines, something right out of the Matrix. Plus, it had noticeable clouding issues on black screens. That was disappointing, as I was upgrading from a 40" xbr1 that had been a dynamite TV for 3 years.

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by crackinhedz

I think you will find hours of lifespan to be hyper inflated similarly along the lines of : contrast ratio's, watts per channel, RMS etc.

certainly any company can claim anything.

Realistically? ...they're trying to sell you something.

Panasonic has samples of each panel independently tested in Korea.
They are measured at 100% brightness setting with a 100% white signal and left until the output reaches 50%.
For the 11G and 12G series that has been 100,000 hours.

[RogerR]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

Panasonic has samples of each panel independently tested in Korea.
They are measured at 100% brightness setting with a 100% white signal and left until the output reaches 50%.
For the 11G and 12G series that has been 100,000 hours.

100,000 hours is over 4000 days. They test their panels for over 10 years?

[JamesKurtovich]

Nothing to replace on plasma..

Don't believe the smear campaign against plasma technology.

I've heard everything.. from that they don't last long and that you have to "drain them out and refill them periodically." Don't ask, lol.

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by RogerR

100,000 hours is over 4000 days. They test their panels for over 10 years?

They get an average based on the continous reduction of brightness, to get to how long it will take to reach 50%.

Although the output does not go down in an absolute pattern, it is more than enough to project the average lifespan.

[RogerR]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

They get an average based on the continous reduction of brightness, to get to how long it will take to reach 50%.

Although the output does not go down in an absolute pattern, it is more than enough to project the average lifespan.

Yes, I was being sarcastic. From reading your original description, it sounded like you were stating that they actually ran the panels for 100,000 hours. I guess I took you too literally.

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by RogerR

Yes, I was being sarcastic. From reading your original description, it sounded like you were stating that they actually ran the panels for 100,000 hours. I guess I took you too literally.

Haha, no it totally reads that way, my bad!

[graf1k]

So do LCDs get the reduction of brightness as well or is that a unique problem of plasmas? I've never been clear on that and even though it would take 20 years or whatever of average use to reach 50% brightness on a plasma, the idea that it kind of wears down doesn't sit well with me even then. I mean, after 5 years would it still look better than a 5 year old LCD?

Also would a plasma with 60Hz refresh look any worse than an LCD with 120Hz refresh with Motionflow/whatever turned off? I ask only about it with Motionflow off because I cannot stand it at all. The salesman at Best Buy was flabbergasted when I told him to turn it off.

Oh and thanks for all the info so far guys. It's been quite helpful.

[brett_day]

Originally Posted by graf1k

So do LCDs get the reduction of brightness as well or is that a unique problem of plasmas? I've never been clear on that and even though it would take 20 years or whatever of average use to reach 50% brightness on a plasma, the idea that it kind of wears down doesn't sit well with me even then. I mean, after 5 years would it still look better than a 5 year old LCD?

Also would a plasma with 60Hz refresh look any worse than an LCD with 120Hz refresh with Motionflow/whatever turned off? I ask only about it with Motionflow off because I cannot stand it at all. The salesman at Best Buy was flabbergasted when I told him to turn it off.

lcd's do get the reduction in brightness. lcd panels are rated for about 60,000hrs before they reach half brightness.

120hz is specially for LCD, it is needed because of motion blur. Plasma's do not need anything more than 60hz as they do not suffer with motion blur....period!

As to whether it looks better or not....well that's down to personal preference! IMHO plasma's are far superior to LCD but that is just what i like!

[ToonyLoons]

Just got done setting up my new Plasma. Hope I enjoy it, i have heard many good things. Now to debate calibration for my new toy.

[graf1k]

That's another question I have. How much does a professional calibration job cost and is it 1) really worth it and 2) something I couldn't do myself. I mean they are just changing the settings aren't they, even if it is with pro equipment and all.

[SumSuperman]

Originally Posted by graf1k

That's another question I have. How much does a professional calibration job cost and is it 1) really worth it and 2) something I couldn't do myself. I mean they are just changing the settings aren't they, even if it is with pro equipment and all.

They are changing the settings as well as going into the service menus. There they adjust things like grayscale and other options, which helps improve the picture.

[brett_day]

Originally Posted by graf1k

That's another question I have. How much does a professional calibration job cost and is it 1) really worth it and 2) something I couldn't do myself. I mean they are just changing the settings aren't they, even if it is with pro equipment and all.

cost will be anywhere from $150 to $500 depending on where you go. Best Buy offers a service for about $200 i think but if you go independent it will cost you closer to the higher number but results will be better

in regards to if you can do it. You can buy a calibration disk that will allow you to change the regular menu settings to optimize the picture, HD DVE is a popular one, however a pro calibration will change far more than just the regular menu settings. the tech will go into the tv's hidden service menu and will change values found in there such as gray scale and red, green and blue saturation levels!. Much is taken into consideration when changing the settings such as room and lighting etc. Pro ISF calibrator use much in the way of computer equipment to get accurate readings

[Sonny]

I love panasonic & have many of them. I have just recently bought a Pioneer 151FD & a 5020FD, I have to say the Pioneers are so incredible it's hard put it into words! They have the best PQ I have ever seen. With there 72hz mode it's just incredible! Ethernet port, 4 HDMI ports , USB port...ect ect... With the Elite your just paying extra for the elite badge really, I have both so I know! If there is anyone in the market for a GOOD top of the "food chain" 50" , then look no further! You will thank me.

[My_Two_Cents]

Originally Posted by Sonny

I love panasonic & have many of them. I have just recently bought a Pioneer 151FD & a 5020FD, I have to say the Pioneers are so incredible it's hard put it into words! They have the best PQ I have ever seen. With there 72hz mode it's just incredible! Ethernet port, 4 HDMI ports , USB port...ect ect... With the Elite your just paying extra for the elite badge really, I have both so I know! If there is anyone in the market for a GOOD top of the "food chain" 50" , then look no further! You will thank me.

I think it's about time you post some pics of all of these!

[William H Pratt]

Has anyone mentioned the off axis viewing issues of LCD?