Looking for a DLP with 1:1, no overscan, true 1080p HDMI

[WeApOn]

I bought a Samsung HL-S5687W just under a year ago... and the overscan issue really bothers me. Is there any comparable TV out there, preferably DLP, under $2000, that has the features listed in my subject?

Edit: By 1:1 I mean 1:1 pixel mapping.

[crackinhedz]

"no overscan" is like having the perfect wife....just aint hapenning. Reason being is that different broadcats use different overscan techniques. Now, you can physically adjust your screen and have it calibrated to fit the screen better to your liking, but to find one out of the box with zero overscan...well, good luck.

[WeApOn]

You're talking strictly about DLP's, right? Because to my knowledge, LCD's should, and probably are 1:1.. since they're used as computer monitors and I've never seen any such overscan.

But yes I do want a DLP with no or very minimal overscan.

[crackinhedz]

Originally Posted by WeApOn

You're talking strictly about DLP's, right? Because to my knowledge, LCD's should, and probably are 1:1.. since they're used as computer monitors and I've never seen any such overscan.

But yes I do want a DLP with no or very minimal overscan.

well, and LCD will be more exact, but not 100%.....overscan is more of an issue when watching tv...

Modern sets

"Today's TV sets can be based on newer fixed-pixel technologies like liquid crystal displays (LCDs), and those with CRTs have much less image drift with crystal-based timing, and so can have perfect image placement. Nevertheless, these sets when used for TV must overscan the image so that older programming will be framed as intended to be viewed. Even high-definition television (HDTV) sets overscan, although implementation of this is inconsistent. It is common to see HDTV sets crop out text and station logos on HDTV programming. In response to different picture ratios, some broadcasters crop, magnify, or stretch the original video, further distorting the image a HDTV set may receive."


I dont think you will ever be completely free of overscan, nor would you want to....but you can manualy adjust the TV to minimize this effect.

[slaizer2000]

Originally Posted by WeApOn

I bought a Samsung HL-S5687W just under a year ago... and the overscan issue really bothers me. Is there any comparable TV out there, preferably DLP, under $2000, that has the features listed in my subject?

Edit: By 1:1 I mean 1:1 pixel mapping.

The Samsung HLT LED DLP models that came out this year have a "just scan" mode which fits most of the image on the screen and reduces the overscan quite a bit. You should check one out at a store to see if its better than the older HLS models. I think the HLT DLP (lamp not LED) would also have this "just scan" mode as well.

[WeApOn]

Originally Posted by slaizer2000

The Samsung HLT LED DLP models that came out this year have a "just scan" mode which fits most of the image on the screen and reduces the overscan quite a bit. You should check one out at a store to see if its better than the older HLS models. I think the HLT DLP (lamp not LED) would also have this "just scan" mode as well.

Do you know how much better it is? My Hl-S5687W is very noticibly overscanning on my PS3, which is my biggest concern. If this TV: Samsung HLT5687S doesn't do it as much, and fits my descriptions above.. I may buy this one.. or try to work something out for an exchange.

[slaizer2000]

Originally Posted by WeApOn

Do you know how much better it is? My Hl-S5687W is very noticibly overscanning on my PS3, which is my biggest concern. If this TV: Samsung HLT5687S doesn't do it as much, and fits my descriptions above.. I may buy this one.. or try to work something out for an exchange.

I see very minimal overscan but I don't have an older model to compare it to. But I believe it is better than the older models.

Thers alot of info about the overscan as well as the TV itself at avs forum

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...9&page=1&pp=30

[bferr1]

Both the HL-Sxx87 and HL-Sxx88 models can have overscan turned off in the service menu, but only the 88s will retain the setting after shutdown.

[WeApOn]

Also I believe any HL-S5687W with a build date of Dec 06 or later will also retain the setting, but sometimes there are problems with the image.

I found this out the other day, and it's a killer for me. The overscan has always been a problem. If the HLTxx87/89 models have much less overscan than I am going to try to get one of those instead.

I'm looking into it at avsforum, and have collected a good amount of information. Does anyone happen to have the HLT model? I would love to hear what you think.

Thanks.

[ground chuck]

where in the setings can you turn off the overscan. also, how can i change to 24hz on a samsung 5687w??

[bferr1]

Originally Posted by ground chuck

where in the setings can you turn off the overscan. also, how can i change to 24hz on a samsung 5687w??

Turning off overscan in service menu (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post8345218)

Latest OVERSCAN links and tips (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&#post11150878)

As always, proceed at your own risk. As for 24Hz, that is not a user setting on the 87. It is fixed at 60Hz only.

[WeApOn]

I really like the HLT-5689S. I know it still has overscan, but from what I've heard-- it's barely noticible. I'm going to keep my eye on this one, or the cheaper one: HLT-5687S.

The newer one has some big differences, including I believe HDMI 1.3

[slaizer2000]

Originally Posted by WeApOn

I really like the HLT-5689S. I know it still has overscan, but from what I've heard-- it's barely noticible. I'm going to keep my eye on this one, or the cheaper one: HLT-5687S.

The newer one has some big differences, including I believe HDMI 1.3

FYI, The 89s series has the 1.3 HDMI where as the 87s series does not.

[MouseRider]

I'm not sure if you are aware of this, but the Samsung HL-S5687W does not have a DLP chip that has 1920x1080 mirrors. The 1080p chip, or what is sometimes called the 0.95" 1080p DarkChip3 DMD just become available about a year ago.

Instead it uses a DLP chip known as the xHD3 that has a native resolution of 960x1080 and it wobbles the chip to double the horizontal resolution.

So in the exact sense of the word, your current TV model is not capable of 1:1 pixel resolution, overscan is the least of your problems.

As mentioned by others, an LCoS based solution, like an LCD or D-ILA rear-projection unit that uses 1920x1080 panels you'd probably be able to find under $2,000 if you're not picky.

I'm not sure who makes a DLP RPTV with that chip now, but there are quite a few front projectors that do use that chip.

[WeApOn]

Originally Posted by slaizer2000

FYI, The 89s series has the 1.3 HDMI where as the 87s series does not.

Sorry, my words may have been tricky. I was refering to the 89 having the HDMI 1.3, not the 87. That, to me, is a good reason to get the 89 over the 87. But it's another $500, so it's tough to convince myself that.

1080p DarkChip3 DMD just become available about a year ago.

No, I wasn't aware of that, though I do know about wobulation. Do you mean in that specific TV 1 year ago they started using it in the newer models, or is that for entirely different TV's?

IMO, the TV does 1080p fine.

In my case, do you think the HLT model I am talking about would be a good choice? I want to find something that is 56" for under $2000, so that probably eliminates LCD. The HLT seems to be a good choice so far, but I'll need to find a good deal to get it under $2000.

[MouseRider]

Originally Posted by WeApOn

No, I wasn't aware of that, though I do know about wobulation. Do you mean in that specific TV 1 year ago they started using it in the newer models, or is that for entirely different TV's?

I was unsuccessful trying to find a rear-projection TV that has that chip, all the current shipping models seem to be using the chip that has wobbulation.

Originally Posted by WeApOn

IMO, the TV does 1080p fine.

In my case, do you think the HLT model I am talking about would be a good choice? I want to find something that is 56" for under $2000, so that probably eliminates LCD. The HLT seems to be a good choice so far, but I'll need to find a good deal to get it under $2000.

Oh, most of the time, the picture looks fine and it will do 1080p though if you compare it with a picture that has the true 1080p DLP, you'll probably find that it is much sharper.

When I mentioned LCD, I was referring to a rear-projection TV that is based on LCD, D-ILA or SXRD, I remember seeing a couple of models that are around the $2000 mark for 50"+. I wasn't referring to LCD flat panels.

[slaizer2000]

Originally Posted by MouseRider

I was unsuccessful trying to find a rear-projection TV that has that chip, all the current shipping models seem to be using the chip that has wobbulation.



Oh, most of the time, the picture looks fine and it will do 1080p though if you compare it with a picture that has the true 1080p DLP, you'll probably find that it is much sharper.

When I mentioned LCD, I was referring to a rear-projection TV that is based on LCD, D-ILA or SXRD, I remember seeing a couple of models that are around the $2000 mark for 50"+. I wasn't referring to LCD flat panels.

Thereis trade off in any technology. Even tho the DLP does wobulation and may not be as sharp as 1080 LCD or plasma it doesn't have the screen door effect where you can see the cells. Best thing of course if to view both in a store. Somethings bother different people different ways. I honestly cannot tell the sharpness difference between a sony 1080p and dlp 1080p where as others say they can. The price also pays a factor. A DLP at 61 inch is cheaper than a Sony at 61 inch so is the trade off in price worth a little less sharpness. All depends on the buyer.

[WeApOn]

Originally Posted by MouseRider

I was unsuccessful trying to find a rear-projection TV that has that chip, all the current shipping models seem to be using the chip that has wobbulation.



Oh, most of the time, the picture looks fine and it will do 1080p though if you compare it with a picture that has the true 1080p DLP, you'll probably find that it is much sharper.

When I mentioned LCD, I was referring to a rear-projection TV that is based on LCD, D-ILA or SXRD, I remember seeing a couple of models that are around the $2000 mark for 50"+. I wasn't referring to LCD flat panels.

Ah ok-- I gotcha. I remember looking at an LCoS awhile ago.. but I think that technology was just coming out. I thought an LCoS falls into an LCD category.. but it's more a DLP you're saying? I haven't been to a TV store since I bought my TV a year ago-- I think it's time to take a trip and see how these others look. Is there any specific model you would recommend me checking out?

Thanks alot for the help.

[MouseRider]

slaizer2000, not all LCD technologies are created equal, some have less "screen door" effect than others, D-ILA and SXRD is an example, but you are correct, everything has pros and cons, I was suggesting LCoS technology because Weapon wanted a sub $2,000 system which would give him 1:1 pixel mapping at 50"+ and I don't think there are any today that use DLP unless he goes with front projection.

Weapon, there are direct view LCDs and then there are "rear-projection" LCDs. There are also custom technologies like SXRD and D-ILA which are variants of LCoS transmissive fixed panel technologies that are available for rear-projection systems.

You'll get better screen-size for money when you get rear-projection, the sacrifice is brightness and a little bit of viewing angle.