Dark Force Entertainment Discussion Thread

[ScorpionReleasing]

Originally Posted by Cinema84

Is this because of Shout's purchase of the library? Just curious.

Not really more like my license is about to expire in a few month

[DetroitSportsFan]

Originally Posted by ScorpionReleasing

And a warning, a lot of my Corman license titles will be going of print real soon so a heads up

Which ones?

[bigG71]

Originally Posted by DetroitSportsFan

Which ones?

Yes, a list of those titles would be helpful...

[deltatauhobbit]

Originally Posted by DetroitSportsFan

Which ones?

I imagine Sorceress will be one of them, if it is, everyone owes it to themselves to pick it up. Hugely fun sword and sorcery flick. Any film with a horny goat man (literally, not figuratively) deserves to be owned, oh yeah, it also stars Playboy twins for those not interested in goat people.

[Braktastic]

Originally Posted by deltatauhobbit

I imagine Sorceress will be one of them, if it is, everyone owes it to themselves to pick it up. Hugely fun sword and sorcery flick. Any film with a horny goat man (literally, not figuratively) deserves to be owned, oh yeah, it also stars Playboy twins for those not interested in goat people.

Yes, this was way better than expected.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by Blu Titan

If you follow Ruined guide to wealth and prosperity...all you need to is buy all of the “limited” - “OOP” titles from Code Red and DF and you will be set for life...everything will be selling for hundreds of $ in the future. Yeah, even a defective release of a crappy movie that nobody was demanding to begin with .

Now let see how well The Carrier sold this week per DF Big Cartel store rankings... that will give us a clue as to the demand for it .

BTW, one copy selling for a certain amount does not establish price or value. There’s always an outlier which is ZERO indication as to what a seller can expect from a similar item.

Years have passed and anyone can buy Necromancy, which had/has an artificially inflated price due to a stunt Bill pulled...people (I hope) are now wise to that.

The rights to Police Connection expired over a year ago but new copies appear for sale at the DF Cartel store. And, Police Connection was opposed to be a REAL OOP release .

Savage Streets was repressed twice and somebody attested over and over that it would not be repressed again. Sold for a high price and now there’s another repress coming our way.

The House That Vanished was not going to be sold any longer and it remained available for sale at SAE and and now DF is selling again for $22...this was held by DF and Ruined as an example of a “valuable” OOP collectible...can’t give it away .

I can only hope, for the sake of humanity, that customers are NOT that naive and can spot nonsense when they see it .

Bottom line: buy the movies you want, but don’t fall for obvious nonsense.

*Can’t wait to read the next “Straw Man” argument from Ruined: “But look at how much My Bloody Valentine is selling for and the PQ is not that great.”

I am surprised you consider my arguments straw man as they are directly applicable to this situation.

At this point in time I am not really sure what point you are trying to make.

It is established that when a title is both only available from resellers and also scare in the marketplace the price goes up because of that scarcity. There are endless examples of this so I don't think this can be disproven. Whether or not that high-priced scarcity is created by the label refusing to sell copies they have in stock or resellers refusing to offer the product for a low price doesn't really matter. In the end, scarcity in the market will cause prices to rise; if only one retailer sells a product, that one retailer has the power to impact the value of a title by turning off the supply faucet of the product to the consumer.

You mentioned Necromancy, this is a great example where the slow drip of copies actually has worked in increasing the perceived value as people now perceive $29.99 as a reasonable price (or even a deal) while for any other title from Code Red $29.99 would be considered high. Again, whether at some point they go this route with the Carrier is yet to be seen, but the single-retailer model for this title allows them to essentially do so at any time if they wish to. Regarding "OOP" of limited run titles - the whole "OOP" thing is kind of silly regardless as for any limited run title (1000 copies, 3000 copies, 5000, whatever), the title is actually OOP immediately as there was only one print run with a set number of copies; people usually refer to a title as "OOP" when it becomes scarce in the market but for limited runs scarcity is just depletion of stock of the single print run as opposed to an actual change in the pressing status of the title. This is different than if Warner Brothers had a title with ongoing copies being pressed and then stopped pressing them, that title would actually have changed status from in-print to out-of-print

I think $17.99 shipped is a good value for the movie in question as it offers a very watchable presentation of a cut of the film that both is a superior cut of the film (IMO) than what has been offered previously, better PQ than previous media releases, the correct aspect ratio for the first time, & also the director's preferred cut has never been available on physical media. It is unfortunate that both cuts don't work but at this point in time there does not exist a disc with both cuts working and such a disc may never exist. Even if the theatrical cut is re-released down the road, this disc will retain its value - as the directors cut is a seperate (and IMO much better) cut of the film that true fans of the film will want to own - so long as the DC is not repressed as well.


DVDs/Blu-rays should not be used as an "investment" as there are far better ways to invest your money (like a real investment fund), but on the other hand if you snooze on a title you want you may end up having to pay a much larger sum down the road to get it. Likewise, if you wait around for an unflawed Blu-ray of a movie that currently has a flawed Blu/DVD, you may end up never having that movie at all especially if the title is obscure. And if you need that unflawed Blu-ray to make the title seem "worth it" to you, that means you probably don't really care for the movie itself that much and shouldn't even bother to buy it in the first place.

[WillieMLF]

I've been meaning to get over to this thread once I saw the price for The Carrier had dropped. Wanted to see what Ruined had to say about the exorbitant price The Carrier should be vs DF reality. If Ruined says something, you can sure believe it's contrary to reality. Glad to see nothing has changed over here.

[Blu Titan]

David, could you please do us all a favor and hire Ruined in some capacity ? Thanks.

[Member-222782]

Originally Posted by Blu Titan

David, could you please do us all a favor and hire Ruined in some capacity ? Thanks.

You can't hire a bot.

[Braktastic]

[Dark Force]

Originally Posted by Blu Titan

Not about to quote the above book by Ruined but Zaat doesn’t “command” squat. Some fool was ASKING $300 in ebay for Bell, Brook and Candle a couple of days ago...will never sell unless he lowers to $20.


Look at auctions and what buyers ACTUALLY offer and pay to establish market value.

Ruined adheres to the DeFalco & Olsen School of Marketing. Rules:

“Oh, so no QC was done and we have a gimped release with atrocious PQ?!”
“Easy fix: we’ll just say it’s OOP and sell it for more!”
“REMEMBER our Mission Statement people:”

THERE’S A SUCKER BORN EVERY MINUTE


Once again DF, will be selling The Carrier for $10 in a couple of months...Bill still has a mountain of defective discs he needs to get rid off.

Both of those labels have balls of steel for initially trying to raise the price on a defective release by saying “its OOP by CR”...yeah OOP .

So happy to see Walt coming out with top releases while these two guys are still trying to dump The Carrier on unsuspecting collectors...with Ruined parroting whatever narrative David and Bill happen to spill .

Hell no that atrocity is not worth $17...not even worth $7 imho.

I thought it was OOP? I thought DF would not be selling it anymore?

We never made that OOP Code Red did when they pulled the title due to the defect in the theatrical version. We already were stuck with a bunch of them by that point. But honestly we have to agree with Ruined that the extended director's cut with the restoration is the best available version currently on the market. If we didn't think the we would not continue to sell it. The whole thing with the grain applies to very finicky collector's that like that look. I could pretty much guarantee that if you just showed that version to an average person they would say it looks fine. Anyway the debate continues I'm sure...

[Dark Force]

Originally Posted by Blu Titan

David, could you please do us all a favor and hire Ruined in some capacity ? Thanks.

This we could actually be in agreement on Titan.

[Dark Force]

Originally Posted by WillieMLF

I've been meaning to get over to this thread once I saw the price for The Carrier had dropped. Wanted to see what Ruined had to say about the exorbitant price The Carrier should be vs DF reality. If Ruined says something, you can sure believe it's contrary to reality. Glad to see nothing has changed over here.

Cut Ruined some slack will ya Willie

[redrunner97]

I don't know if the Dark Force Insider ever responded to our inquiries about possibly picking up the Amityville sequels, but that would be fantastic. Even the lesser-known Amityville Horror spin-offs about haunted furniture would probably sell pretty well, maybe in a box set or multi-pack?

[Blu Titan]

Originally Posted by Dark Force

We never made that OOP Code Red did when they pulled the title due to the defect in the theatrical version. We already were stuck with a bunch of them by that point. But honestly we have to agree with Ruined that the extended director's cut with the restoration is the best available version currently on the market. If we didn't think the we would not continue to sell it. The whole thing with the grain applies to very finicky collector's that like that look. I could pretty much guarantee that if you just showed that version to an average person they would say it looks fine. Anyway the debate continues I'm sure...

Meh, I like you David...you have a good sense of humor and “thick” skin. My point is and always been that Code Red aka Bill dosent actually put anything OOP. What does it mean when a Code Red is OOP?

For decades Bill puts titles OOP to keep selling them, repressing them, and selling them in different formats. Bill will try and sell every single defective copy of The Carrier. If had been able to sell them fast, he would have repress more. Years ago, when he threw a hissy fit and took Necromancy off the market (while many customers like myself wanted to buy)...I dared him to destroy all copies...fast forward to the present and he is still selling it (albeit at a higher price cause its "OOP" and "rare) .

I want to see Banana Man take the remaining (hundreds of copies) of The Carrier with you and a couple of your minions (maybe Ruined can help?) to a California beach...start a huge bonfire and throw all remaining copies in there...that would make a great special feature. Thus, The Carrier would be OOP...not Bill stashing hundreds of copies in his bathroom to sell at a later day.

[Blu Titan]

Not trying to rewrite history...this is from 10/12/2016 pages 1016-1017 of the Code Red thread :

Originally Posted by Blu Titan

We already know that the stuff in the vaults never sold and will never sell. Code Red was available at Best Buy and never sold. So, I suggest a huge bonfire with Banana Man feeding the flames with thousands of unsold discs. It would make for an epic video and have Banana Man grab the Necromancy BDs at the end and toss them right on the flames.

A huge fire would end storage costs and requests from annoying customers who would like to buy product. Just burn it all Bill...no reason to keep paying storage costs. Unless you enjoy being a MEGA hoarder???

Originally Posted by CODE RED DVD

people complain, I don't listen...people say code red dont care

so now I listen, and people who place the film in the bucketlst...now complain.

First batch of complaint from people who bought it really upset me.

I release a rare film and i got 4 kids ranting on how it's the PG cut and others joined in.

If I put it back in the market...horder will buy it

also, some wise guy will post "I told you bill will place it back in the market. He's not honest with his words"

If I charge more money due to horder, people will complaint also.

No win situation.

It hurted me to read the rant I got for the release.

Dont want live with that again.

downright vicious.

Ruined my 4 month in Los Angeles. Felt terrible only to come back with more massacre.

new born child was born with no hate. but seems like these 4 guys must watch alot of angry movies.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by Blu Titan

Meh, I like you David...you have a good sense of humor and “thick” skin. My point is and always been that Code Red aka Bill dosent actually put anything OOP. What does it mean when a Code Red is OOP?

Again the term "putting something OOP" does not really apply to small limited runs, because there was never any sustained in print run to begin with, only a single limited run which is OOP after the last disc from the planned run leaves the replicator. With limited runs its more about remaining stock than whether something is in print.

OOP would be more like a major studio stopping replication of a popular title because they lost the rights.

For decades Bill puts titles OOP to keep selling them, repressing them, and selling them in different formats. Bill will try and sell every single defective copy of The Carrier. If had been able to sell them fast, he would have repress more. Years ago, when he threw a hissy fit and took Necromancy off the market (while many customers like myself wanted to buy)...I dared him to destroy all copies...fast forward to the present and he is still selling it (albeit at a higher price cause its "OOP" and "rare) .

So you are describing two different things here. First is refusing to sell stock of discs you have. Second is doing additional pressings when you told customers there would be only a single limited run.

In the end code red licensed the title, if they want to sell them slowly at higher prices instead of quicker at lower prices thats their own business decision, but there is risk of putting off consumers as they know the company is blocking them from getting the item they want at the price they want.

In regards to repressing limited runs, twilight time also did this as, and sony also chose to repress some twilight time titles. I think this does harm the speed your titles move and ultimate price because if customers think it will be repressed anyway there will be much less pressure to buy quickly. But, another business decision.

I want to see Banana Man take the remaining (hundreds of copies) of The Carrier with you and a couple of your minions (maybe Ruined can help?) to a California beach...start a huge bonfire and throw all remaining copies in there...that would make a great special feature.

Its illegal w/ jail time to give someone a plastic straw in California, i think having a bonfire of plastic blu rays would probably get you life in prison, several counts of human rights violations, and branded a war criminal.

[Member-222782]

[Blu Titan]

Short reply to Ruined is no, you are wrong again. What I referenced in my posts above is nothing more that a sad attempt at manipulating demand, price and customer complaints at the expense of credibility. DF tried the same tactic with THTV and that, obviously, backfired. Customers are NOT that dumb.

I don’t think David will try it again...he is, IMO, a smart guy. Bill is Bill and will continue with the games. That’s all...this debate is boring for me and must be unbearable for others. I apologize.

[kraven]

It is indeed. Not your fault though.