Sony Z9F TV

[E6AtmosVuduDV]

Live Q&A Z9F in two days. from Rtings

[mzupeman]

See my take is that every television has flaws. Every. Single. One. That blooming example that Shane found certainly doesn’t look good but Im already watching a television that gets some noticeable light in the bars. Will this be worse than my M55-D0? That remains to be seen. However, blooming wasn’t something that was ruining my experience. DSE was.

What I wanted from a new TV was higher nits and better HDR overall and wide color and a better DSE example. This television seems to deliver on those particular fronts.

Im interested in seeing just how noticeable the black bars in my viewing environment are... and I tend to watch in a pitch black room so, I’ll see it and see it bad if it is, indeed, bad.

[ray0414]

Originally Posted by mzupeman

See my take is that every television has flaws. Every. Single. One. That blooming example that Shane found certainly doesn’t look good but Im already watching a television that gets some noticeable light in the bars. Will this be worse than my M55-D0? That remains to be seen. However, blooming wasn’t something that was ruining my experience. DSE was.

What I wanted from a new TV was higher nits and better HDR overall and wide color and a better DSE example. This television seems to deliver on those particular fronts.

Im interested in seeing just how noticeable the black bars in my viewing environment are... and I tend to watch in a pitch black room so, I’ll see it and see it bad if it is, indeed, bad.

I think you'll be fine coming from the TV you currently have. High nit HDR has caused problems on lcd tvs so because of this new format it's not an apples to apples comparing to a low nit TV. I think you'll be okay but I also believe the prices of these Z series will drop too. If the TV were cheaper, perhaps the issues can be overlooked by some people. Until then, I don't think it is unreasonable to expect flagship black levels at the current price point.

[mzupeman]

Originally Posted by ray0414

I think you'll be fine coming from the TV you currently have. High nit HDR has caused problems on lcd tvs so because of this new format it's not an apples to apples comparing to a low nit TV. I think you'll be okay but I also believe the prices of these Z series will drop too. If the TV were cheaper, perhaps the issues can be overlooked by some people. Until then, I don't think it is unreasonable to expect flagship black levels at the current price point.

Thing is I also think people focused on the Z set’s name here a bit too much. They used that to expect better everything but they werent taking the much lower launch price into consideration. Concessions were made but the price reflects thst, too.

[E6AtmosVuduDV]

Happy, Happy is when $1500-2500 off. We know that happens. Its just Timing.

Cource being among first to own has its Pleasures.

[mzupeman]

Originally Posted by E6AtmosVuduDV

Happy, Happy is when $1500-2500 off. We know that happens. Its just Timing.

Cource being among first to own has its Pleasures.

You expect to see this $3500 set drop down to $1000?

[E6AtmosVuduDV]

75 inch drop $2500. Eventually

[alexanderg823]

WOW.

https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/sony/z9f

This review is pretty bad.

1730:1 native contrast ratio - Only 3379:1 with local dimming engaged? Stock gamma is way off, what's up with the factory calibration?

https://i.rtings.com/images/reviews/...ible-large.jpg

Z9F top left with horrendous black bars.

https://i.rtings.com/images/reviews/...-dse-large.jpg

Vertical banding also apparent in their picture.

Dunno how the hell anyone scored this so close to OLED. Looks like a total disappointment IMO.

[mzupeman]

8.4 is a great overall score from RTINGS. I love the site, I do. I think it can be very informative but it sort of suffers from the same thing that video game review sites do: People like to just scroll to the scores and not take context in consideration. RTINGS helps to reinforce this by not only using scores, but by color coding them as well by green, yellow and red. So, people are prone to scrolling through and stopping at the trouble spots and stopping there.

So, that said, I am certainly not surprised to see the low score in regards to contrast. They take native contrast as 75% of the score though but we can see that with local dimming active, the television fares better, so I’m really not concerned about that. With an image that’s capable of being brighter than most other LEDs out there, that could effectively keep a nice balance with real-use scenes in regards to the contrast.

Local dimming seems to score fine enough for the zones it has.

Love that we’re reaching some comparable brightness with SDR.

The 7.8 for gray uniformity was a little bit of a surprise. The screenshot they provided, while exhibiting the infamous dark corners that Sony are known form, seems pretty darn clean, certainly better than a good number of other LED’s.

Viewing angle score isn’t a surprise but a lot of LED’s score even lower than that, so that has to be taken into consideration.

Black uniformity looks good with local dimming enabled.

I think the MOST surprising thing in the entirety of the review though is the pre calibration measurements. This is supposed to be super accurate, right? Does their 6.8 pre-cal score really reinforce Sony’s marketing in regards to accuracy? Doesn’t seem so. However, this television is obviously not going for measured results, but actual in-use results. I wonder if calibrating the way RTINGS does can actually hurt image quality overall more than it helps. I know that sounds like an insane leap of logic, but I’m definitely curious about this. The Z9F obviously is relying on its processing and how it handles various algorithms in order to trick us into seeing something accurate… so does a ‘purely by the numbers’s calibration help or actually hurt? Normally, I’d use RTINGS settings as a starting point and adjust to my liking from there… but this time I’m going to probably just tweak the local dimming stuff and go with maybe Cinema Pro and see how it works. A good test, I’ve found, has been South Park in HD. Cartman’s reds, the red poof ball on Stan’s hat, the yellow trim in Cartman’s hat and his yellow gloves… like, these are usually good indicators to me if something is off color wise. If I see some issues just by eyeballing, I’ll go ahead and try their recommended settings.

Very excited to see the input lag response times. Very good news for a Sony television for sure.

Overall, yes, certain aspects of their review are concerning, but not surprising (as I’ve said). Again, my major wants for upgrading was better HDR than what I’ve got and a good number of nits, wide color, and a clean screen mostly devoid of DSE. This seems to hit all those marks, and not having to settle for Samsung’s black crush… well, I’ll take a contrast hit to get more details than less.

I should have hands on impressions late tomorrow evening.

[alexanderg823]

Contrast is and always will be the number one factor in pq far and away. It's made up of native contrast and local.dimming zones, both of which the z9F severely lacks. A total flop really.

[mzupeman]

Originally Posted by alexanderg823

Contrast is and always will be the number one factor in pq far and away. It's made up of native contrast and local.dimming zones, both of which the z9F severely lacks. A total flop really.

And yet it scored pretty tightly with a couple of OLED’s at the shootout. I wouldn’t call that a total flop at all. I can understand the disappointment but you’re being somewhat hyperbolic without seeing it for yourself.

[DJR662]

Originally Posted by alexanderg823

Contrast is and always will be the number one factor in pq far and away. It's made up of native contrast and local.dimming zones, both of which the z9F severely lacks. A total flop really.

I think it's quite clear by now where the Z9F stands. And I also think it's obviously aimed at a different target audience than the Z9D was. Too bad for those that had high expectations and wanted to upgrade from a Z9D. BLNT.

I am really looking forward in CES next year now though.

[alexanderg823]

Originally Posted by mzupeman

And yet it scored pretty tightly with a couple of OLED’s at the shootout. I wouldn’t call that a total flop at all. I can understand the disappointment but you’re being somewhat hyperbolic without seeing it for yourself.

Which I really don't buy.

The HDR content shown at the shootout wasn't particularly challenging material to really stress an LED, and dark scenes with a FALD set to 100 nit won't particularly challenge one either.

I don't know how many TVs you've had the fortune to evaluate, but after seeing dozens of different ones over the years, I know exactly what to expect from a unit with ~100 zones and a low native contrast ratio. Many of us do, that's why there was such an uproar as soon as the specs leaked out. And it turns out that despite some people too drunk on the sony processing kool aid, it's turning out precisely how we thought it would.

Sorry but there's only so far 100 zones with a ~2,000 native contrast can push. No amount of magic processing is going to fix it. It's a dream.

[alexanderg823]

Originally Posted by DJR662

I think it's quite clear by now where the Z9F stands. And I also think it's obviously aimed at a different target audience than the Z9D was. Too bad for those that had high expectations and wanted to upgrade from a Z9D. BLNT.

I am really looking forward in CES next year now though.

Yep, agreed.

[mzupeman]

Originally Posted by alexanderg823

Which I really don't buy.

The HDR content shown at the shootout wasn't particularly challenging material to really stress an LED, and dark scenes with a FALD set to 100 nit won't particularly challenge one either.

I don't know how many TVs you've had the fortune to evaluate, but after seeing dozens of different ones over the years, I know exactly what to expect from a unit with ~100 zones and a low native contrast ratio. Many of us do, that's why there was such an uproar as soon as the specs leaked out. And it turns out that despite some people too drunk on the sony processing kool aid, it's turning out precisely how we thought it would.

Sorry but there's only so far 100 zones with a ~2,000 native contrast can push. No amount of magic processing is going to fix it. It's a dream.

I think I CAN safely say without seeing the television that yes, if someone was looking to upgrade from their Z9D, those people need not apply. The target audience for this one is quite different, that much is also true.

I’ve repeated it to the point of probably being obnoxious about it, my current set is a Vizio M55-D0 from 2016. When the actual on-screen content is even semi-bright (for what the set is capable of), the black bars definitely do not blend well into a pitch black room. I can see zones at times and I can see gray-ish bars. However, these ‘issues’ (it was a $650 set when I bought it, after all) weren’t distracting to me, personally. They don’t rear an ugly head constantly so I didn’t mind, not much. My brain/eyes seem to focus more on the actual picture being displayed and not the bars around it… I guess I’m fortunate in that respect?

I’m more bothered by DSE, and I’m looking to upgrade HDR and finally have WCG. I also game a lot in addition to watching film in 4K a lot so, for me… this seems like a great set.

But based on RTINGs findings… sure, buyer beware.

As far as Sony Kool-Aid… this is my first time buying a Sony set. I’m not really invested here… if I put this thing through its paces and really don’t like it, it’s going back. If, however, I do find it seems to be an improvement over my M55-D0 in the areas I’m looking for, it’ll stay.

Tomorrow night will be interesting in the man cave, for sure.

[alexanderg823]

Originally Posted by mzupeman

As far as Sony Kool-Aid… this is my first time buying a Sony set. I’m not really invested here… if I put this thing through its paces and really don’t like it, it’s going back. If, however, I do find it seems to be an improvement over my M55-D0 in the areas I’m looking for, it’ll stay.

I believe you've been a successful target of marketing (!!!MASTER SERIES!!!) and posts from biased owner(s).

I’m more bothered by DSE

There are vertical bands in the images rtings provided. DSE/uniformity errors are not eliminated.

[E6AtmosVuduDV]

Watching HDR Movies is Rtings 8.2 for Z9F.

Rtings HDR Movies for Sony x900F is 8 4.

Thats a step down for HDR.

For OLED's B7 its 9.1. Sony A9F will likely be 9.2 or even more...
for Sony A8F HDR is 8.2.

I would'nt wanna watch HDR10, Dolby Vision disc movies on a Z9F.

Maybe theres truth to other forums Talk of a **REAL** Z9D replacement at CES 2019.

Myself. Im hitting Z9F pause button till CES 2019.

Others too from various forum talk.
CES is January. So so close.


Good Wisdom. IMO.

Originally Posted by*DJR662*

I think it's quite clear by now where the Z9F stands. And I also think it's obviously aimed at a different target audience than the Z9D was. Too bad for those that had high expectations and wanted to upgrade from a Z9D. BLNT.*

I am really looking forward in CES next year now though.*

[rroeder]

What's the deal with the 75"? Don't see any reviews or info is it delayed??

I might be pulling the trigger on one this fall if the reviews are favorable like the 65"

[mzupeman]

Originally Posted by alexanderg823

I believe you've been a successful target of marketing (!!!MASTER SERIES!!!) and posts from biased owner(s).



There are vertical bands in the images rtings provided. DSE/uniformity errors are not eliminated.

The marketing hype didn’t get me at all. I was looking at televisions a short time before the Z9F was even unveiled. I knew I likely wouldn’t be able to actually get one until late August or sometime in September but I started to do my homework in July. My Vizio M55-D0 has served me extremely well but I wanted to upgrade to better luminance for HDR, I wanted a set capable (finally) of wide color, and I wanted to hopefully reduce noticeable DSE. OLED’s were off the table for me. The tech and being a gamer makes me nervous.

So…

I was considering a 900F or the Samsung Q9FN. Hearing pros say thing like ‘it was hard for me to tell the Q9FN wasn’t an OLED until I got close to it’ was impressive, but the black crush talk killed it for me. The 900F seemed to have great accuracy out of the box, but I wanted a higher nit count… but if it was the best overall choice for me, then that’s what I was going to get. It seemed to have better uniformity than the competition, too.

Sometime after I sort of made up my mind, the sudden announcement and release of the Vizio P Quantum gave me pause. If it could produce picture quality that was similar enough to the Q9FN but without crushing blacks, well, it was going to be a strong contender, especially for the price… but I’m too familiar with Vizio’s panel lottery to go for it. So, back to the 900F I went.

Then Sony announced the Z9F. I figured it’d be better than the 900F, provide the luminance/nits I was looking for, have an accurate picture since Sony is pretty well known for that as well as their image processing, and would also have much, much, much less DSE overall.

All in all, after all that research I felt, and still feel, that I’m ‘defeated’ no matter what television I roll with. They all have their pros and cons. Likelier to get ugly DSE with Vizio and Samsung. Samsung has black crush. Now the Z9F has its own issue that’s undoubtedly owed to the wide angle tech they’ve implemented.

But anyway, those were my ‘qualifications’ for deciding on the Z9F. And I still think for me, personally, it’s the right choice. It has its concessions like every television does, but it seemingly ticks all the right boxes for what I want, and is still going to be a nice upgrade from my current set.

[alexanderg823]

Originally Posted by mzupeman

The marketing hype didn’t get me at all. I was looking at televisions a short time before the Z9F was even unveiled. I knew I likely wouldn’t be able to actually get one until late August or sometime in September but I started to do my homework in July. My Vizio M55-D0 has served me extremely well but I wanted to upgrade to better luminance for HDR, I wanted a set capable (finally) of wide color, and I wanted to hopefully reduce noticeable DSE. OLED’s were off the table for me. The tech and being a gamer makes me nervous.

So…

I was considering a 900F or the Samsung Q9FN. Hearing pros say thing like ‘it was hard for me to tell the Q9FN wasn’t an OLED until I got close to it’ was impressive, but the black crush talk killed it for me. The 900F seemed to have great accuracy out of the box, but I wanted a higher nit count… but if it was the best overall choice for me, then that’s what I was going to get. It seemed to have better uniformity than the competition, too.

Sometime after I sort of made up my mind, the sudden announcement and release of the Vizio P Quantum gave me pause. If it could produce picture quality that was similar enough to the Q9FN but without crushing blacks, well, it was going to be a strong contender, especially for the price… but I’m too familiar with Vizio’s panel lottery to go for it. So, back to the 900F I went.

Then Sony announced the Z9F. I figured it’d be better than the 900F, provide the luminance/nits I was looking for, have an accurate picture since Sony is pretty well known for that as well as their image processing, and would also have much, much, much less DSE overall.

All in all, after all that research I felt, and still feel, that I’m ‘defeated’ no matter what television I roll with. They all have their pros and cons. Likelier to get ugly DSE with Vizio and Samsung. Samsung has black crush. Now the Z9F has its own issue that’s undoubtedly owed to the wide angle tech they’ve implemented.

But anyway, those were my ‘qualifications’ for deciding on the Z9F. And I still think for me, personally, it’s the right choice. It has its concessions like every television does, but it seemingly ticks all the right boxes for what I want, and is still going to be a nice upgrade from my current set.

just save some money and get a Z9D. If you're concerned about the "bad motion" on it - Keep in mind nobody even knew it had "bad motion" until rtings released their review. When I had mine, I never noticed any motion that bothered me and I gamed a lot on it with the XBOX One X releasing right around the time I had it.