Sony Z9F TV

[Noremac Mij]

Originally Posted by mzupeman

I game a lot so I tend to stay away from OLED. Im going to try the 900F.

The C8 has a much lower input lag than 900F. I know a huge gamer who just got a C8 and he couldn’t be happier. Burn in is a non issue. Everything is returnable. I wish I could convince you to try, you’ll be speechless on what it can do with HDR and your movie collection.

There’s just no comparison: https://www.rtings.com/tv/tools/comp...-lg-c8/585/600

[mzupeman]

Originally Posted by Noremac Mij

The C8 has a much lower input lag than 900F. I know a huge gamer who just got a C8 and he couldn’t be happier. Burn in is a non issue. Everything is returnable. I wish I could convince you to try, you’ll be speechless on what it can do with HDR and your movie collection.

Image retention and burn is absolutely not a non-issue. There are owners that would certainly say otherwise. I also dont like OLEDs ABL. Thank you though.

[MechaGodzilla]

Originally Posted by mzupeman

I game a lot so I tend to stay away from OLED. Im going to try the 900F.

Same for me. I game quite a bit, and to make matters worse I tend to lean a little "retro" (mostly '90s-mid '00s, a bit of late '80s, and some newer stuff) in my tastes, and I'm especially into JRPGs. Which means lots of brightly colored HUDs, lots of text on screen, and games that are often 35-40+ hours long each... that adds up to what would just be straight up abuse of an OLED.

[Noremac Mij]

Originally Posted by mzupeman

Image retention and burn is absolutely not a non-issue. There are owners that would certainly say otherwise. I also dont like OLEDs ABL. Thank you though.

ABL on the C8 is no longer an issue. When I’m not watching movies, my TV is usually on a news channel, or Food/Travel. Wouldn’t be surprised if it averages 8+ hours a day. OLED light set to 100. It has been this way for months. Just checked, virtually zero image retention of any kind. It’s a non issue on modern OLEDs. LG also has automatic pixel shift and refresh.

[E6AtmosVuduDV]

It’s a non issue on modern OLEDs. LG also has automatic pixel shift and refresh.

Does C8 OLED Warranty now covers the extremely rare Burn-ins? Due to it not really occuring anymore.

Sony A9F has the same LG panel. Its modern OLED.

[mzupeman]

This thread is going to murder me buuuut... don't count this TV out entirely just yet.

OK so when I got this set it was daytime and I adjusted settings based on an SDR backlight of 10.

When watching Halloween last night, as soon as we went from the opening escape from the mental institution to the first daylit scene that says 'Haddonfield' in white text, it blinded both my wife and I. As I had mentioned previously, that forced me to change the brightness setting in HDR mdoe from Max to 35 (the max is 50). It still didn't seem like a good balance though.

But I remembered a while ago that this TV allegedly uses SDR calibrations and somehow transfers that calibration over to HDR. So, I decided to give the RTINGS settings a whirl (none of that white balance stuff though since I'm sure there's variances from panel to panel). For SDR calibration they used a backlight of 2 (remember, I was using 10 before), so I rolled with that and followed most of their settings. I was hoping maybe this would somehow translate over to a better experience with HDR content.

It... actually does.

I watched the opening of Halloween again and when it went to that first day time scene, I wasn't blinded like I was the night before. And guess what? That's with the HDR backlight defaulting to maximum. So yes, it seems the backlight setting in SDR DOES have an effect on how things look in HDR.

I thought I was just being super crazy though, so I called my wife downstairs to come and watch the opening of the film with me again since she watched it and had the same 'ah, that's wayyyy too bright' reaction last night. The switch from darkness to day didn't blind her either this time.

I'm tossing a bunch of content in again tonight, this time in my pitch black room, and I've got to say that I'm beginning to feel like the picture is much more acceptable. The bars definitely still light up when there's bright content right near them, but to my understanding, this is what happens when you've got a not super high zone count and bright HDR. When there's only pockets of really bright stuff on-screen, you still get a noticeable bloom in the bar near it but I don't feel like it's as bad as it was last night. AND, now that I've discovered what HDR on this set REALLY looks like now that I can have brightness in that mode set to max without turning away, I think this is a concession I'm willing to live with.

I've already got a 900F scheduled to come and replace this thing on Wednesday but... I'm going to give this until Monday. With this simple change in setting, I feel like I've unlocked the power of the television. Yeah, it's still not perfect, but no television is, right? If I'm still 'hey, this is looking better and seems like something I can live with' come Monday morning, I'm going to keep the Z9F.

Stay tuned, I guess, and sorry for the dramatic up again, down again, up again rollercoaster. I had no idea that the SDR backlight setting would be so important for the picture overall in HDR as well...

[recS-12]

How’s the off angle viewing? I’m just experiencing less than 1 week w/my new Z9D and this was one of the issues I weighed a lot before going w/the D. Greatly or significant improvement off angle viewing? Apologies in advance if you’ve already covered this subject.

[mzupeman]

Originally Posted by recS-12

How’s the off angle viewing? I’m just experiencing less than 1 week w/my new Z9D and this was one of the issues I weighed a lot before going w/the D. Greatly or significant improvement off angle viewing? Apologies in advance if you’ve already covered this subject.

It’s quite good with anything that isn’t black.

[tommyboy81]

Originally Posted by mzupeman

This thread is going to murder me buuuut... don't count this TV out entirely just yet.

OK so when I got this set it was daytime and I adjusted settings based on an SDR backlight of 10.

When watching Halloween last night, as soon as we went from the opening escape from the mental institution to the first daylit scene that says 'Haddonfield' in white text, it blinded both my wife and I. As I had mentioned previously, that forced me to change the brightness setting in HDR mdoe from Max to 35 (the max is 50). It still didn't seem like a good balance though.

But I remembered a while ago that this TV allegedly uses SDR calibrations and somehow transfers that calibration over to HDR. So, I decided to give the RTINGS settings a whirl (none of that white balance stuff though since I'm sure there's variances from panel to panel). For SDR calibration they used a backlight of 2 (remember, I was using 10 before), so I rolled with that and followed most of their settings. I was hoping maybe this would somehow translate over to a better experience with HDR content.

It... actually does.

I watched the opening of Halloween again and when it went to that first day time scene, I wasn't blinded like I was the night before. And guess what? That's with the HDR backlight defaulting to maximum. So yes, it seems the backlight setting in SDR DOES have an effect on how things look in HDR.

I thought I was just being super crazy though, so I called my wife downstairs to come and watch the opening of the film with me again since she watched it and had the same 'ah, that's wayyyy too bright' reaction last night. The switch from darkness to day didn't blind her either this time.

I'm tossing a bunch of content in again tonight, this time in my pitch black room, and I've got to say that I'm beginning to feel like the picture is much more acceptable. The bars definitely still light up when there's bright content right near them, but to my understanding, this is what happens when you've got a not super high zone count and bright HDR. When there's only pockets of really bright stuff on-screen, you still get a noticeable bloom in the bar near it but I don't feel like it's as bad as it was last night. AND, now that I've discovered what HDR on this set REALLY looks like now that I can have brightness in that mode set to max without turning away, I think this is a concession I'm willing to live with.

I've already got a 900F scheduled to come and replace this thing on Wednesday but... I'm going to give this until Monday. With this simple change in setting, I feel like I've unlocked the power of the television. Yeah, it's still not perfect, but no television is, right? If I'm still 'hey, this is looking better and seems like something I can live with' come Monday morning, I'm going to keep the Z9F.

Stay tuned, I guess, and sorry for the dramatic up again, down again, up again rollercoaster. I had no idea that the SDR backlight setting would be so important for the picture overall in HDR as well...

I was wondering if there needs any tweaking. Basically a little TLC. I can't handle really bright stuff anyways, so mine will probably be tweaked a little too. Even though it'll be calibrated already. Mine gets delivered next thurs or Fri, unless something has changed. (65in also). I'm wondering what kind of additional tweaking can be done with the Panasonic 820

[mzupeman]

Originally Posted by tommyboy81

I was wondering if there needs any tweaking. I can't handle really bright stuff anyways, so mine will probably be tweaked a little too. Even though it'll be calibrated already. Mine gets delivered next thurs or Fri, unless something has changed. (65in also)

I've just spent a bit of time just popping in material to test from SDR and HDR, and even some gaming. I mean, don't get me wrong... in HDR I still see light in the bars but I feel what I'm really seeing is just a side effect of having such bright HDR in the first place. The size of the bloom can be quite a bit more than I think people may be used to but due to the brightness change in SDR, I think the lighting system is a concession I can actually live with. I popped in Pacific Rim tonight and Ho. Ly. Crap. I've never seen anything like it in my life. And, as mentioned before, no DSE. Response time for gaming is great.

A silly setting... and I think I may have just saved this television from going back. I'm giving it until Monday, yes, but I'm much happier this evening now.

[tommyboy81]

Originally Posted by mzupeman

I've just spent a bit of time just popping in material to test from SDR and HDR, and even some gaming. I mean, don't get me wrong... in HDR I still see light in the bars but I feel what I'm really seeing is just a side effect of having such bright HDR in the first place. The size of the bloom can be quite a bit more than I think people may be used to but due to the brightness change in SDR, I think the lighting system is a concession I can actually live with. I popped in Pacific Rim tonight and Ho. Ly. Crap. I've never seen anything like it in my life. And, as mentioned before, no DSE. Response time for gaming is great.

A silly setting... and I think I may have just saved this television from going back. I'm giving it until Monday, yes, but I'm much happier this evening now.

this will be my first 4k set. But from what I've seen with how bright tvs are getting and brighter HDR the blooming on the black bars is a side effect of it

[E6AtmosVuduDV]

But from what I've seen with how bright tvs are getting and brighter HDR the blooming on the black bars is a side effect of it

This Z has similar high brightness to Z9F.

https://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/kd65...1610164372.htm

All Z Blacks are'nt equal.


This is Dolby Vision. Gets very very bright.
Note the Cinema bars on top amd bottom

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y10_...ature=youtu.be

The question is do the 75 inch Z9F's blacks and cinema bars look similar or how close.

1800 Nits at 10% window achieveable
http://4k.com/tv/sony-xbr-z9d-series...5z9d-xbr75z9d/

From Rting Z9F HDR Peak Brightness at 10% window is 1671 nits

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by mzupeman

I've just spent a bit of time just popping in material to test from SDR and HDR, and even some gaming. I mean, don't get me wrong... in HDR I still see light in the bars but I feel what I'm really seeing is just a side effect of having such bright HDR in the first place. The size of the bloom can be quite a bit more than I think people may be used to but due to the brightness change in SDR, I think the lighting system is a concession I can actually live with. I popped in Pacific Rim tonight and Ho. Ly. Crap. I've never seen anything like it in my life. And, as mentioned before, no DSE. Response time for gaming is great.

A silly setting... and I think I may have just saved this television from going back. I'm giving it until Monday, yes, but I'm much happier this evening now.

Speaking solely for the ZD9, changing the SDR backlight has absolutely zero effect on HDR content, when they speak of "calibration settings" carrying over they mean things like white balance. But are you seriously comparing what HDR looks like in the day with what it looks like in a pitch black room? OF COURSE it will look a hell of a lot brighter in the darkened room!

[mzupeman]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Speaking solely for the ZD9, changing the SDR backlight has absolutely zero effect on HDR content, when they speak of "calibration settings" carrying over they mean things like white balance. But are you seriously comparing what HDR looks like in the day with what it looks like in a pitch black room? OF COURSE it will look a hell of a lot brighter in the darkened room!

As mentioned before, things were too bright when I had the brightness set higher in SDR. Toning it down and I can still look at the screen in HDR... even the mostly white picture in The Matrix. So I do think that has an overall effect on auto HDR settings. Contrast looked weaker overall as well. But after changing the backlight in SDR lower, that bas mitigated things a bit. In these specific scenarios Im talking dark room to dark room.

[alexanderg823]

Are you sure you activated hdr in the first place, using the enhanced HDMI setting?

To be quite honest from your initial impression of hdr being blinding combined with your theory on sdr backlight effecting hdr content it makes me think you weren't actually watching her content in the first place. Hdr has never been blinding or so bright I had to knock the brightness down.

However, watching SDR on full backlight settings has resulted in that kind of effect.

[alexanderg823]

Also once again don't change the backlight setting from max on hdr. It does not do what you think it does. Anything lower than max backlight just destroys the luminance curve.

Hdr uses an absolute method of plotting brightness, meaning a Max backlight isn't going to make it brighter than it should be, it's going to give more brightness points that it can accurately hit.

[mzupeman]

Originally Posted by alexanderg823

Are you sure you activated hdr in the first place, using the enhanced HDMI setting?

To be quite honest from your initial impression of hdr being blinding combined with your theory on sdr backlight effecting hdr content it makes me think you weren't actually watching her content in the first place. Hdr has never been blinding or so bright I had to knock the brightness down.

However, watching SDR on full backlight settings has resulted in that kind of effect.

Positive HDR was on. The menu confirmed it. I also didn’t have to select the hdr extended range on the input. Sony seemed to detect it automatically for that port, because when I checked, it was already selected.

Originally Posted by alexanderg823

Also once again don't change the backlight setting from max on hdr. It does not do what you think it does. Anything lower than max backlight just destroys the luminance curve.

Hdr uses an absolute method of plotting brightness, meaning a Max backlight isn't going to make it brighter than it should be, it's going to give more brightness points that it can accurately hit.

I won’t be taking backlight off of max anymore. There’s no need. That was a knee jerk reaction on thay first night because I didnt know how else to manage an image that was too bright to stare at.

Sony televisions also utilize brightness as backlight as far as Ive been reading. But either way, again, things seem to be fine now. I no longer feel like the overall contrast is weak. Im pretty excited that Im looking to keep this set now.

I still think even with a proper calibration, some may be a bit too sensitive to how the FALD works on this set, and may veer away due to the lighting in the bars. I feel it’s mitigated enough for me now though. Out of all the concessions made on a number of sets, Ill take this over DSE, and the HDR is so amazing that I don’t really want to give it up... nor the excellent input lag response while gaming.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by mzupeman

As mentioned before, things were too bright when I had the brightness set higher in SDR. Toning it down and I can still look at the screen in HDR... even the mostly white picture in The Matrix. So I do think that has an overall effect on auto HDR settings. Contrast looked weaker overall as well. But after changing the backlight in SDR lower, that bas mitigated things a bit. In these specific scenarios Im talking dark room to dark room.

I'll just say what everyone else is thinking: the placebo effect is strong with this one! You're just getting used to how HDR actually looks IMO.

[mzupeman]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I'll just say what everyone else is thinking: the placebo effect is strong with this one! You're just getting used to how HDR actually looks IMO.

My wife was blinded by the first daytime scene in Halloween just as I was. She hasnt spent the time with this TV as I have the last couple days, and I showed her the same part of the movie again in our pitch black environment and she didnt have a problem with it then. She, in fact, thought it looked great. I used her for a second opinion specifically to try and rule out placebo effect.

I think tonight Ill crank the brightness in SDR the pop something in thats HDR and test this out further. If Im right, there should be a difference.

But maybe you’re right but... I feel strongly something had changed.

[E6AtmosVuduDV]

Being its Sony
I would imagine Z9F is not far from these Z settings(?).

http://best-tv-settings.com/tv-settings-sony-z9d-zd9/