Official Film Noir on Blu-ray Thread

[trentdiesel]

Originally Posted by SeanJoyce

LOL The Body Snatcher a noir; I've seen it all now.

Dont be so sure

[LordSummerIsle]

Originally Posted by leonmarks

There’s nothing supernatural in “The Body Snatcher” so its horror elements are stylistic only; it’s a fantastic noir.

[LordSummerIsle]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

Happy New Year's everyone! In Criterion's annual NYD drawing one of the clues is for Klute (1971). It's been long speculated to come from Criterion, so this is a pretty solid indication that it's happening this year.

I can't wait to see what the extras will be for that one

[Richard--W]

Originally Posted by usuallee

I just watched Panique the other night - really enjoyed it! Definitely a thoroughly blackhearted Noir. No one in the film comes off very well -

[Show spoiler]even the supposedly sympathetic outcast/victim withheld evidence of a murder for his own selfish ends, and engaged in Peeping Tom activities.

The film has great performances from Simon and especially Viviane Romance -

[Show spoiler] she played both sides and I was played as well - I really couldn't tell which way she was going!

The bumper car sequence and the

[Show spoiler]climactic rooftop scene

were quite impressive from a technical standpoint, and of course the picture quality courtesy of Criterion was utterly ravishing. Definitely worthwhile. Thanks for the link too! An excellent read.

Glad to read a positive review. I've only seen Panique on a collector's transfer.
It made a Duvivier fan out of me and started me looking into French film noir of
the 1930s (that's right, the 1930s). I thought we'd get to the Criterion today but
we're having a Godfather marathon which is noirish in many ways.

[leonmarks]

I know some users on this board obsess over noir genre eligibility, which is fine I guess, but The Body Snatcher is a Victorian crime drama shot in gorgeous Expressionistic style, so if films like Hangover Square and Moss Rose qualify (which they do), then the push back on Body Snatcher seems odd. But honestly I'm not interested in debating it. It's in my noir collection and there it shall stay. : )

[leonmarks]

If you like Duvivier, you will love Marcel Carne. Port of Shadows. Le Jour Se Leve. Hotel du Nord. Therese Raquin. All fantastically dark and atmospheric.

[Richard--W]

Just so. I have those blu-rays in my home library except for Therese Raquin. I'll have
to look into that one. I have Carne, Clair, Duvivier, Feuillade, Feyder, Gance, Gremillon,
Ophuls, Renoir among others, and now a sample of the young and early Clouzot. The
reason "the French had a name for it" is because the social conditions that created film
noir in the first place existed in France before we Americans went through a similar
experience. They recognized it when the saw it after the war. La Bandera and Pepe Le
Moke are two of my favorites from 1930s France.

[leonmarks]

Originally Posted by GeoffOliver

My favorite noirs are probably Postman Always Rings Twice, The Woman in the Window, and They Live By Night. There’s a lot I still want to see though.



A film (or any fictional story) absolutely does not need supernatural elements to qualify as horror.

I know I'm in the minority here, but I just can't appreciate the apparent excellence of Postman. I've tried it three times, and the plot seems to lose control in the second half with the courtroom scenes, etc. It's one of the canon noirs I just never fell in love with. Others are Sweet Smell of Success, The Naked City, and The Big Sleep.

I'm curious what other canon titles some of you don't like. Any heretical crticisms you want to share?

[The Great Owl]

Originally Posted by leonmarks

I know some users on this board obsess over noir genre eligibility, which is fine I guess, but The Body Snatcher is a Victorian crime drama shot in gorgeous Expressionistic style, so if films like Hangover Square and Moss Rose qualify (which they do), then the push back on Body Snatcher seems odd. But honestly I'm not interested in debating it. It's in my noir collection and there it shall stay.

If I'm allowed to consider Into the Blue (2005) a neo-noir, then you're cool to keep The Body Snatcher in your noir collection.

[leonmarks]

Originally Posted by Richard--W

Just so. I have those blu-rays in my home library except for Therese Raquin. I'll have
to look into that one. I have Carne, Clair, Duvivier, Feuillade, Feyder, Gance, Gremillon,
Ophuls, Renoir among others, and now a sample of the young and early Clouzot. The
reason "the French had a name for it" is because the social conditions that created film
noir in the first place existed in France before we Americans went through a similar
experience. They recognized it when the saw it after the war. La Bandera and Pepe Le
Moke are two of my favorites from 1930s France.

That's terrific - sounds like you have a great collection of poetic realism. I have scoured the Internet for years to find some of the titles/directors you mention, but many seem impossible to find, esp Duvivier and Gremilion, at least with English subtitles. Criterion hasn't even updated their Pepe Le Moko to bluray yet! But Panique was a huge new title for them - it just arrived in my mailbox yesterday and I haven't watched it yet; I have severely high expectations.

[SeanJoyce]

Originally Posted by leonmarks

I know some users on this board obsess over noir genre eligibility

There's more users here obsessed with contorting non-noir films into noir; trying to interpret a film that has categorically been acknowledged as a horror film for three quarters of a century into a noir is just the latest.

I will agree with you about Postman though. I like it a bit more than you do, but my esteem for it diminishes with each viewing. It's a Double Indemnity-lite for half a movie before devolving into something less interesting and chaotic.

[Richard--W]

Originally Posted by leonmarks

I know I'm in the minority here, but I just can't appreciate the apparent excellence of Postman. I've tried it three times, and the plot seems to lose control in the second half with the courtroom scenes, etc. It's one of the canon noirs I just never fell in love with. Others are Sweet Smell of Success, The Naked City, and The Big Sleep.

I'm curious what other canon titles some of you don't like. Any heretical criticisms you want to share?

The Big Sleep is a masterwork, but I think there is too much self-deprecating
humor for it to be a noir. Not that I'm complaining; I love the film. Further,
all of Val Lewton's productions are noir-ish, even his western, so I'm fine
with The Body Snatcher being in a film noir collection although I think it's
other things before it's noir-ish. Noir City Magazine has a regular column by
Steve Kronenberg called Noir Or Not? In each column he takes on the
question of whether a particular film is noir and pares it down to a matter of
degrees. It is okay to discuss parameters and progressiveness there without
fear of ridicule or insults. Eddie Muller has written and spoken quite a bit on
this matter as well.

[noirjunkie]

Originally Posted by Richard--W

The Big Sleep is a masterwork, but I think there is too much self-deprecating humor for it to be a noir. Not that I'm complaining; I love the film. Further, all of Val Lewton's productions are noir-ish, even his western, so I'm fine with The Body Snatcher being in a film noir collection although I think it's other things before it's noir-ish.

The Body Snatcher is more of a noir than The Big Sleep? Good grief.

[leonmarks]

Originally Posted by SeanJoyce

There's more users here obsessed with contorting non-noir films into noir; trying to interpret a film that has categorically been acknowledged as a horror film for three quarters of a century into a noir is just the latest.

I will agree with you about Postman though. I like it a bit more than you do, but my esteem for it diminishes with each viewing. It's a Double Indemnity-lite for half a movie before devolving into something less interesting and chaotic.

Fine. Let's consider Snatcher a cross-over noir if that makes it more palatable. But I recommend challenging how movies have been "categorically...acknowledged" as a general rule because films and film cycles are -- and should be -- re-appraised all the time.

[leonmarks]

Originally Posted by noirjunkie

The Body Snatcher is more of a noir than The Big Sleep? Good grief.

Did someone say that? I just don't like The Big Sleep.

[Richard--W]

He's sniping my post, not yours'. That's not what I said.

[Richard--W]

Originally Posted by leonmarks

I know I'm in the minority here, but I just can't appreciate the apparent excellence of Postman. I've tried it three times, and the plot seems to lose control in the second half with the courtroom scenes, etc. It's one of the canon noirs I just never fell in love with. ...

I don't disagree with this. From my posts back thread:

You express my own thoughts about The Postman Always Rings Twice. The
second half would be stronger if it deliberated the novel's legal maneuvers
and counter-maneuvers with precision, and without beating them to death.
Cora and Frank are in love and need each other. As the police play them
against each other, both are surprised at how far they'll go to save their own
skin by incriminating the other. The police see how this tactic injures them,
so they drive the wedge in deeper. The film touches on this, and is okay in
so far as it goes. But it doesn't go the distance that the novel does. If it had,
it would almost be too painful to watch. The sexual attraction and eroticism
in the first half is important because it is denied to them in the second half.

I think there's room for a third adaptation. Only where can you find another
Lana Turner and John Garfield with that chemistry?

===============


One of the things that makes The Postman Always Rings Twice special in the
film noir cannon is that John Garfield and Lana Turner ARE the characters they
play. It's not just acting. Their personalities fit the writing hand in glove.
Garfield and Turner were made for Cain, and it's as if Cain wrote with them
in mind (he didn't but it seems like he did). One can't go back to the novel
without seeing Garfield and Turner in the mind's eye speaking this dialogue
and yearning these feelings and thinking these thoughts.

It takes two to iron her slip.

[GeoffOliver]

Originally Posted by leonmarks

I know I'm in the minority here, but I just can't appreciate the apparent excellence of Postman. I've tried it three times, and the plot seems to lose control in the second half with the courtroom scenes, etc. It's one of the canon noirs I just never fell in love with. Others are Sweet Smell of Success, The Naked City, and The Big Sleep.

I'm curious what other canon titles some of you don't like. Any heretical crticisms you want to share?

I mean... I love Double Indemnity, but it's not one of my favorites in the genre like it is for so many people. That's all I've got. I enjoyed Woman in the Window more, even when I know it's not as intelligently written.

I adore Postman so much because both leads are fascinating complex characters, and are extremely well-performed by John Garfield and Lana Turner. The story also has strong gut-wrenching themes, and a powerful (almost tragic) sense of karma (more-so than most noir). The film itself has great atmosphere and wonderful cinematography as well, capturing a real-world feel helped by its heavy (for the time) use of location filming. The second half of the film is less interesting, but not fatally so for me. The film as a whole takes melodrama to a new level, and it is delicious. It helps that it was the first noir I ever saw. I first caught it on TCM when I was 13, about 10 years ago, and it's stayed with me ever since. I even have a poster for it in my bedroom (among other films). It's absolutely in my top 10 films of all time.

Almost all of the above can also be said about They Live By Night, although those characters are much more innocent, and the film is more consistent in quality. It's not quite as memorable, but I still love it. Something about Bonnie & Clyde-esque stories (lovers-on-the-run) really catches my attention.

Another favorite of mine is Road House (1948), especially for Ida Lupino's wonderful screen presence and Richard Widmark's scenery-chewing performance as Jefty (probably my favorite noir jackass).

[koberulz]

I've never seen Postman. But I found Big Sleep woeful. I guess I'm not one of those who can ignore the total lack of coherent plot.

[javy]

Originally Posted by Richard--W

It takes two to iron her slip.

[Show spoiler]

Shoot, whatever Lana Turner do I wanna be right there with her too.

The Postman Always Rings Twice is a top-notch noir film. So is The Big Sleep, The Woman in the Window, Sudden Fear, Night and the City, In A Lonely Place, Odd Man Out, The Third Man, Out of the Past, and Double Indemnity. As well as many others that we all know.

I really do love film-noir. It's quite the pleasure.