The BLU-RAY format will never replace the DVD format unless BLU-RAY recorders appear. - Blu-ray Forum

HDTV1080P · 02-12-2009, 04:46 PM

The following is a view point regarding the United States market which still has no BLU-RAY standalone recorders available.

The BLU-RAY format will never replace the DVD format unless manufactories start making standalone BLU-RAY recorders. There are BLU-RAY recorders for computers but most consumers still prefer to use standalone equipment instead of interfacing a computer into the main home theater room.
Standalone VCR's are no longer being made anymore since the DVD format has replaced videotape. DVD became very popular soon after it was introduced in 1997. The picture and sound quality and several other factors made the DVD format very popular with consumers. What finally killed the VHS format was when consumers could start recording TV shows on optical disc. Once under $100 recordable DVD players hit the market soon after manufactories stopped making standalone VHS machines. Now cheap combo VHS/DVD standalone recorders are being made that will completely be replaced by DVD recorders one day.
Of course we all know that the hard disk Digital video recorder is the most popular method to record TV shows today. Still many consumers purchase 480I DVD recorders for under $100 since they like placing TV shows on optical discs. Most SD and HD DVR's require a subscription fee to use where as an optical recorder has no monthly fee. Optical discs are good for long term storage up to 100 years where a hard drive needs to be backed up every 5 years.
The BLU-RAY camp is dropping the ball on an opportunity to sale millions of standalone recorders. This year on June 12th 2009 all the full power TV stations in the United States will be switching to digital unless another delay occurs. Many consumers instead of purchasing a converter box for their old VCR's and DVD recorders will instead decide to purchase a new DVD recorder with a digital ATSC tuner built in for under $200. Possible several thousands or perhaps millions of new DVD recorders will be purchased. It is too bad the BLU-RAY camp does not have any standalone recorders available for sale in 2009 as consumers are looking to upgrade their equipment.
Hopefully the BLU-RAY camp will launch a BLU-RAY standalone recorder in the United States in 2010. Even if the first models cost $1,500-$2,000 early adopters will purchase them. Then in 2011 under $1,000 BLU-RAY recorders could be introduced and then soon after that under $500 BLU-RAY standalone recorders. All 3 of those price levels could be done today if the $500 model was a basic no tuner model. Then one day fullly loaded under $500 BLU-RAY standalone recorders would be on the market.

The first BLU-RAY recorders should have the following features:

Flag ship top of the line model for around $2,000:

1. Built in HD DVR with an optical BLU-RAY recording drive: Would allow recording at 1080P, 1080I, 720P, 480P, and 480I from camcorders and cable TV channels (1080P recording for future camcorders and broadcasts that support that format). Also an external SATA interface to add an external hard drive.

2. Two digital tuners: Both tuners should support ATSC/QAM which would allow one to record two channels at once from an antenna or cable TV service. The QAM tuner should support both MPEG-2 and MPEG-4 unencrypted cable channels and encrypted channels with a cable card . Support for video on demand and interactive program guide could be supported if the QAM tuner is two way, then no digital cable box would be neeeded.

3. A front and rear IEEE-1394 interface should be included so that one can make a perfect bit for bit 1080I, 720P, 480P, and 480I copy from the camcorder or HD cable box to the BLU-RAY recorder. Some other jacks needed would be HDMI and component outputs, S-Video and composite input and outputs, optical audio output, and RCA audio inputs and outputs would be needed for recording also.

4. Recorded ATSC/QAM channels that are MPEG-2 HD or QAM MPEG-4 HD channels would be bit for bit identical to the original broadcast.

5. BLU-RAY MPEG-2 to MPEG-4 conversion utility: This feature would require a lot of processing power and might be too costly with existing technology. When the BLU-RAY MPEG-2 to MPEG-4 conversion is turned on, then a HD MPEG-2 ATSC/QAM TV program would be converted to MPEG-4 in real time. This feature would offer the exact same picture and sound quality as the original HD MPEG-2 recording but with less space used on the 50GB BLU-RAY disc.

A medium cost first generation BLU-RAY standalone recorder with no DVR for under $1,000 should include the following:

1. An optical BLU-RAY recording drive: Would allow recording at 1080P, 1080I, 720P, 480P, and 480I from camcorders and cable TV channels.

2. A basic one tuner: One ATSC/QAM tuner that supports in the clear MPEG-2 and MPEG-4 QAM. Encrypted channels not supported and cable box required.

4. A front and rear IEEE-1394 interface should be included so that one can make a perfect bit for bit 1080I, 720P, 480P, and 480I copy from the camcorder or HD cable box to the BLU-RAY recorder. Some other jacks needed would be HDMI and component outputs, S-Video and composite input and outputs, optical audio output, and RCA audio inputs and outputs would be needed for recording also.

5. Recorded ATSC/QAM channels that are MPEG-2 HD or QAM MPEG-4 HD channels would be bit for bit identical to the original broadcast.

A low cost first generation under $500 BLU-RAY recorder (no tuners):

1. Contains no tuners and recording HD and SD programs requires a HD cable box that has IEEE-1394 interface.

And of course over time prices would fall with new and improved generation of BLU-RAY recorders. All the BLU-RAY recorders would have 5C copy protection so that only programs that are allowed to be recorded would be recorded.

5C Digital Transmission Content Protection White Paper

Sonny · 02-12-2009, 04:53 PM

they should of had BD rec here 2 years ago

rlw · 02-12-2009, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

The BLU-RAY format will never replace the DVD format unless manufactories start making standalone BLU-RAY recorders. There are BLU-RAY recorders for computers but most consumers still prefer to use standalone equipment instead of interfacing a computer into the main home theater room.

You mean like these?

bhampton · 02-12-2009, 04:56 PM

Interesting,

I'm content to let the studios to the mastering for me. I don't see a need for a VCR-ish type of setup maybe because I don't watch TV.

-Brian

cbm1965 · 02-12-2009, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

The following is a view point regarding the United States market which still has no BLU-RAY standalone recorders available.

The BLU-RAY format will never replace the DVD format unless manufactories start making standalone BLU-RAY recorders. There are BLU-RAY recorders for computers but most consumers still prefer to use standalone equipment instead of interfacing a computer into the main home theater room.
Standalone VCR's are no longer being made anymore since the DVD format has replaced videotape. DVD became very popular soon after it was introduced in 1997. The picture and sound quality and several other factors made the DVD format very popular with consumers. What finally killed the VHS format was when consumers could start recording TV shows on optical disc. Once under $100 recordable DVD players hit the market soon after manufactories stopped making standalone VHS machines. Now cheap combo VHS/DVD standalone recorders are being made that will completely be replaced by DVD recorders one day.
Of course we all know that the hard disk Digital video recorder is the most popular method to record TV shows today. Still many consumers purchase 480I DVD recorders for under $100 since they like placing TV shows on optical discs. Most SD and HD DVR's require a subscription fee to use where as an optical recorder has no monthly fee. Optical discs are good for long term storage up to 100 years where a hard drive needs to be backed up every 5 years.
The BLU-RAY camp is dropping the ball on an opportunity to sale millions of standalone recorders. This year in June 2009 12th all the full power TV stations in the United States will be switching to digital unless another delay occurs. Many consumers instead of purchasing a converter box for their old VCR's and DVD recorders will instead decide to purchase a new DVD recorder with a digital ATSC tuner. Possible several thousands or millions of new DVD recorders will be purchased. It is too bad the BLU-RAY camp does not have any standalone recorders available for sale in 2009 as consumers are looking to upgrade their equipment.
Hopefully the BLU-RAY camp will launch a BLU-RAY standalone recorder in the United States in 2010. Even if the first models cost $1,500-$2,000 early adopters will purchase them. Then in 2011 under $1,000 BLU-RAY recorders could be introduced and then soon after that under $500 BLU-RAY standalone recorders. All 3 of those price levels could be done today if the $500 model was a basic no tuner model. Then one day fullly loaded under $500 BLU-RAY standalone recorders we be on the market.

The first BLU-RAY recorders should have the following features:

Flag ship top of the line model for around $2,000:

1. Built in HD DVR with an optical BLU-RAY recording drive: Would allow recording at 1080P, 1080I, 720P, 480P, and 480I from camcorders and cable TV channels (1080P recording for future camcorders and broadcasts that support that format). Also an external SATA interface to add an external hard drive.
2. Two digital tuners: Both tuners should support ATSC/QAM which would allow one to record two channels at once from an antenna or cable TV service. The QAM tuner should support both MPEG-2 and MPEG-4 unencrypted cable channels and encrypted channels with a cable card . Support for video on demand and interactive program guide could be supported if the QAM tuner is two way, then no digital cable box would be neeeded.
4. A front and rear IEEE-1394 interface should be included so that one can make a perfect bit for bit 1080I, 720P, 480P, and 480I copy from the camcorder or HD cable box to the BLU-RAY recorder. Some other jacks needed would be HDMI and component outputs, S-Video and composite input and outputs, optical audio output, and RCA audio inputs and outputs would be needed for recording also.
5. ATSC/QAM channels that are MPEG-2 HD or QAM MPEG-4 HD channels would be bit for bit identical to the original broadcast.
6. BLU-RAY MPEG-2 to MPEG-4 conversion utility: This feature would require a lot of processing power and might be too costly with existing technology. When the BLU-RAY MPEG-2 to MPEG-4 conversion is turned on, then a HD MPEG-2 ATSC/QAM TV program would be converted to MPEG-4 in real time. This feature would offer the exact same picture and sound quality as the original HD MPEG-2 recording but with less space used on the 50GB BLU-RAY disc.

A medium cost first generation BLU-RAY standalone recorder with no DVR for under $1,000 should include the following:

1. An optical BLU-RAY recording drive: Would allow recording at 1080P, 1080I, 720P, 480P, and 480I from camcorders and cable TV channels.
2. A basic one tuner: One ATSC/QAM tuner that supports in the clear MPEG-2 and MPEG-4 QAM. Encrypted channels not supported and cable box required.
4. A front and rear IEEE-1394 interface should be included so that one can make a perfect bit for bit 1080I, 720P, 480P, and 480I copy from the camcorder or HD cable box to the BLU-RAY recorder. Some other jacks needed would be HDMI and component outputs, S-Video and composite input and outputs, optical audio output, and RCA audio inputs and outputs would be needed for recording also.
5. ATSC/QAM channels that are MPEG-2 HD or QAM MPEG-4 HD channels would be bit for bit identical to the original broadcast.

A low cost first generation under $500 BLU-RAY recorder (no tuners):

1. Contains no tuners and recording HD and SD programs requires a HD cable box that has IEEE-1394 interface.

And of course over time prices would fall with new and improved generation of BLU-RAY recorders. All the BLU-RAY recorders would have 5C copy protection so that only programs that are allowed to be recorded would be recorded.

5C Digital Transmission Content Protection White Paper

They will. Already a few promo types in Japan. It took a several years until stand alone dvd to record for a reasonable price. History always repeat itself. It will happen. After the greedy politians and corporate managers. Are comfortable with the copyright options. So they will not lose a profit.

Jeff Kleist · 02-12-2009, 04:59 PM

Quote:

What finally killed the VHS format was when consumers could start recording TV shows on optical disc. Once under $100 recordable DVD players hit the market soon after manufactories stopped making standalone VHS machines

DVR killed the VCR, because timeshifting is what people used it for. DVD recorders have never been more than a niche in the US market. Asia is the only market where recorders sell in large numbers. Once people had a device they could click, set it and forget it and store 40 hours of material at once, it was done.

Quote:

They will. Already a few promo types in Japan. It took a several years until stand alone dvd to record for a reasonable price. History always repeat itself. It will happen. After the greedy politians and corporate managers. Are comfortable with the copyright options. So they will not lose a profit.

All Blu-ray players in Japan are recorders, and most are paired with DVRs from 350GB-1TB in size

P@t_Mtl · 02-12-2009, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

DVR killed the VCR, because timeshifting is what people used it for. DVD recorders have never been more than a niche in the US market. Asia is the only market where recorders sell in large numbers. Once people had a device they could click, set it and forget it and store 40 hours of material at once, it was done.

All Blu-ray players in Japan are recorders, and most are paired with DVRs from 350GB-1TB in size

I actualy use both but use more of my DVR, I could not live without my DVR anymore

Don't even watch live TV now, DVR what I want, watch it later and skip all the commercials.

HDTV1080P · 02-12-2009, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rlw

You mean like these?

Yes like those that are in Japan.

Clark Kent · 02-12-2009, 05:04 PM

The manufacturers are well aware of the demand for recorders in the United States. It is a political decision to appease the intellectual property owners in the U.S., namely the Hollywood movie studios. Hollywood recognizes that the ability to record 1080i movies and tv shows off of cable or broadcast would slow the growth of BD media sales. Hollywood would rather sell you the BD for $30 than have you record it for free off of HBO. There is a symbiotic relationship between the content owners and the hardware makers; they do not like to step on each other's toes. Japan is a special case that the studios tolerate.

navyman · 02-12-2009, 05:07 PM

I feel that Blu-ray recorders are not essential to the success of blu-ray as a whole. I don't have the numbers to show my point but I do not believe dvd recorders ever really took off for the consumer market in the US, which would show why their is a lack of Blu-ray recorders avialable in our market.

There is a market for people wanting to store and record television in high def but that market is being filled by DVRs. Most if not all cable/satellite companies provide DVRs for a reasonable amount compared to the price of a blu-ray recorder and they do have DVRs capable of recording High Def TV in the full quality that the shows are aired. Long term storage is an issue but a growing number of companies are allowing for the archiving of shows into external hard drives.

Given the low cost alternatives that are already capable of storing HD content at the full resolution aired and the high expense of blank blu-ray media, I do not think it makes sense for companies to go out of their way to produce very expensive recording systems for a niche market. Nor do I see why a niche market would keep blu-ray from overtaking DVD as a standard sooner rather then later.

Chordata · 02-12-2009, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhampton

Interesting,

I'm content to let the studios to the mastering for me. I don't see a need for a VCR-ish type of setup maybe because I don't watch TV.

-Brian

You say you "don't see a need for" them. Certainly you see a "need" for them for the other hundreds of millions of TV viewers in the U.S. alone, right?

navyman · 02-12-2009, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clark Kent

The manufacturers are well aware of the demand for recorders in the United States. It is a political decision to appease the intellectual property owners in the U.S., namely the Hollywood movie studios. Hollywood recognizes that the ability to record 1080i movies and tv shows off of cable or broadcast would slow the growth of BD media sales. Hollywood would rather sell you the BD for $30 than have you record it for free off of HBO. There is a symbiotic relationship between the content owners and the hardware makers; they do not like to step on each other's toes. Japan is a special case that the studios tolerate.

Copyright protection is a small part of this. The studios don't want people to be able to share the content they record with other people, however much of what you mention is already being done by DVRs. The reason they are not avialable is not because they want to keep you from recording in HD, most DVRs do that now, but because the market for recordable Blu-ray players in the US is too small to justify the expense.

Jeff Kleist · 02-12-2009, 05:12 PM

Quote:

The manufacturers are well aware of the demand for recorders in the United States. It is a political decision to appease the intellectual property owners in the U.S., namely the Hollywood movie studios. Hollywood recognizes that the ability to record 1080i movies and tv shows off of cable or broadcast would slow the growth of BD media sales. Hollywood would rather sell you the BD for $30 than have you record it for free off of HBO. There is a symbiotic relationship between the content owners and the hardware makers; they do not like to step on each other's toes. Japan is a special case that the studios tolerate.

While that was certainly the case with DVD recorders, and even TV box sets of DVD, most of those fears of sabotage were proven unfounded, and are not the issue. The real issue is that the market in North America is simply too small at the moment to make it worth it. I'm sure they would also just like to swap the tuners out of the Japanese boxes and ship the same thing here.

There are flags in all the digital broadcasts that can be set to stop you from recording or burning discs, should studios choose to enable that. PPV/VOD rental is the only place anyone has actually talked about using it

HDTV1080P · 02-12-2009, 05:18 PM

Currently I have a few JVC D-VHS machines that allows 1080I and 720P recordings with its built in ATSC tuner or connection to the Verizon FIOS cable box using IEEE-1394. All HD cable boxes by law are required to have a working IEEE-1394 connection. Verizon has two IEEE-1394 interfaces and I have 2 D-VHS's connected to one HD DVR box and 1 D-VHS connected to the each other HD Verizon box. If a program is marked by the program provider as copy never under the 5C copy protection the program will not be recorded. D-VHS, S-VHS, and VHS standalones are no longer made. Just cheap VHS/DVD combo's that allow 480I recording only.
Personally I do no recording at all and watch almost 100% BLU-RAY prerecorded movies, but my family members do lots of recording. Hoping a BLU-RAY recorder will appear soon in the US.

lobo81865 · 02-12-2009, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P@t_Mtl

I actualy use both but use more of my DVR, I could not live without my DVR anymore

Don't even watch live TV now, DVR what I want, watch it later and skip all the commercials.

Ditto.

bhampton · 02-12-2009, 10:49 PM

Quote "You say you "don't see a need for" them. Certainly you see a "need" for them for the other hundreds of millions of TV viewers in the U.S. alone, right?"

I don't know... I'm not into sports, or reality shows, I get my news and weather from the internet and I hate what broadcast TV does to movies so I watch maybe 10 minutes of TV a month or less. I do eventually netflix plenty of series like Lost or Alias but when I discover something like that I'm usually 3 seasons behind so netflix is great for that.

Now,... people I know who watch TV all have DVR's... So... I don't know that they want Blu Ray recording capabilities. My Step dad for example subscribes to cable and has a DVR (Tivo-ish thing) and a Blu Ray player and I think he feels like he's got it all.

-Brian

HDTV1080P · 02-13-2009, 02:55 AM

If a standalone BLU-RAY recorder is not released in the USA then consumers will continue to record TV shows on DVR's and DVD recorders. If low cost BLU-RAY recorders became available then one day DVD recorders would be discontinued just like VHS standalone recorders were. If consumers cannot record on BLU-RAY they will continue to purchase the several models of DVD recorders located at Best Buy and Walmart. Of course DVR's are more popular now for ease of use and short term storage . Now if you are talking about pre-recorded movies the Hollywood studios could decide in 10 or 20 years to stop releasing on the DVD format but then DVD recorders would still be popular if no BLU-RAY recorder was available on the US market.
I am hoping that in a few years BLU-RAY standalone recorders will be released in the USA. Consumers in the USA are stuck with 480I DVD recorders and HD DVR's that require a subscription most of the time.

andyman1970 · 02-13-2009, 03:32 AM

I don't need a Blu-ray recorder. I have a DVR. I would rather wait and let the studios release my favorite shows remastered on Blu-ray and buy them without all the commercials.

shooter3295 · 02-13-2009, 12:34 PM

Recorders would be nice,....but they will just gouge us on the prices,....just like they did with first gen BD players.

A price reduction on the movies of $5 would do more to spread Blu-Ray than a recorder would at this point.

Besides,....they already have "Drives" that recored for your computer,....and it's not that hard to get HD content to your Hard Drive and then to the disc.

dobyblue · 02-13-2009, 02:27 PM

The title of this thread is 100% incorrect.
The success of Blu-ray doesn't depend on Blu-ray Recorders at all.
I know many more people already that have Blu-ray Disc players than have DVD recorders.
PVR's and DVR's is where it's at, storage is dirt cheap (1.5TB drives for under $150) and getting cheaper.

Sorry, but the media-recorder has meant very little in North America for success of media - VHS went out because DVD's became affordable and players got cheap, in addition to people got tired of being kind and rewinding.

02-12-2009, 04:46 PM	#1
HDTV1080P Blu-ray Champion Top contributor Member since:Jan 2007 Blu-ray reviews: 205	The BLU-RAY format will never replace the DVD format unless BLU-RAY recorders appear. The following is a view point regarding the United States market which still has no BLU-RAY standalone recorders available. The BLU-RAY format will never replace the DVD format unless manufactories start making standalone BLU-RAY recorders. There are BLU-RAY recorders for computers but most consumers still prefer to use standalone equipment instead of interfacing a computer into the main home theater room. Standalone VCR's are no longer being made anymore since the DVD format has replaced videotape. DVD became very popular soon after it was introduced in 1997. The picture and sound quality and several other factors made the DVD format very popular with consumers. What finally killed the VHS format was when consumers could start recording TV shows on optical disc. Once under $100 recordable DVD players hit the market soon after manufactories stopped making standalone VHS machines. Now cheap combo VHS/DVD standalone recorders are being made that will completely be replaced by DVD recorders one day. Of course we all know that the hard disk Digital video recorder is the most popular method to record TV shows today. Still many consumers purchase 480I DVD recorders for under $100 since they like placing TV shows on optical discs. Most SD and HD DVR's require a subscription fee to use where as an optical recorder has no monthly fee. Optical discs are good for long term storage up to 100 years where a hard drive needs to be backed up every 5 years. The BLU-RAY camp is dropping the ball on an opportunity to sale millions of standalone recorders. This year on June 12th 2009 all the full power TV stations in the United States will be switching to digital unless another delay occurs. Many consumers instead of purchasing a converter box for their old VCR's and DVD recorders will instead decide to purchase a new DVD recorder with a digital ATSC tuner built in for under $200. Possible several thousands or perhaps millions of new DVD recorders will be purchased. It is too bad the BLU-RAY camp does not have any standalone recorders available for sale in 2009 as consumers are looking to upgrade their equipment. Hopefully the BLU-RAY camp will launch a BLU-RAY standalone recorder in the United States in 2010. Even if the first models cost $1,500-$2,000 early adopters will purchase them. Then in 2011 under $1,000 BLU-RAY recorders could be introduced and then soon after that under $500 BLU-RAY standalone recorders. All 3 of those price levels could be done today if the $500 model was a basic no tuner model. Then one day fullly loaded under $500 BLU-RAY standalone recorders would be on the market. The first BLU-RAY recorders should have the following features: Flag ship top of the line model for around $2,000: 1. Built in HD DVR with an optical BLU-RAY recording drive: Would allow recording at 1080P, 1080I, 720P, 480P, and 480I from camcorders and cable TV channels (1080P recording for future camcorders and broadcasts that support that format). Also an external SATA interface to add an external hard drive. 2. Two digital tuners: Both tuners should support ATSC/QAM which would allow one to record two channels at once from an antenna or cable TV service. The QAM tuner should support both MPEG-2 and MPEG-4 unencrypted cable channels and encrypted channels with a cable card . Support for video on demand and interactive program guide could be supported if the QAM tuner is two way, then no digital cable box would be neeeded. 3. A front and rear IEEE-1394 interface should be included so that one can make a perfect bit for bit 1080I, 720P, 480P, and 480I copy from the camcorder or HD cable box to the BLU-RAY recorder. Some other jacks needed would be HDMI and component outputs, S-Video and composite input and outputs, optical audio output, and RCA audio inputs and outputs would be needed for recording also. 4. Recorded ATSC/QAM channels that are MPEG-2 HD or QAM MPEG-4 HD channels would be bit for bit identical to the original broadcast. 5. BLU-RAY MPEG-2 to MPEG-4 conversion utility: This feature would require a lot of processing power and might be too costly with existing technology. When the BLU-RAY MPEG-2 to MPEG-4 conversion is turned on, then a HD MPEG-2 ATSC/QAM TV program would be converted to MPEG-4 in real time. This feature would offer the exact same picture and sound quality as the original HD MPEG-2 recording but with less space used on the 50GB BLU-RAY disc. A medium cost first generation BLU-RAY standalone recorder with no DVR for under $1,000 should include the following: 1. An optical BLU-RAY recording drive: Would allow recording at 1080P, 1080I, 720P, 480P, and 480I from camcorders and cable TV channels. 2. A basic one tuner: One ATSC/QAM tuner that supports in the clear MPEG-2 and MPEG-4 QAM. Encrypted channels not supported and cable box required. 4. A front and rear IEEE-1394 interface should be included so that one can make a perfect bit for bit 1080I, 720P, 480P, and 480I copy from the camcorder or HD cable box to the BLU-RAY recorder. Some other jacks needed would be HDMI and component outputs, S-Video and composite input and outputs, optical audio output, and RCA audio inputs and outputs would be needed for recording also. 5. Recorded ATSC/QAM channels that are MPEG-2 HD or QAM MPEG-4 HD channels would be bit for bit identical to the original broadcast. A low cost first generation under $500 BLU-RAY recorder (no tuners): 1. Contains no tuners and recording HD and SD programs requires a HD cable box that has IEEE-1394 interface. And of course over time prices would fall with new and improved generation of BLU-RAY recorders. All the BLU-RAY recorders would have 5C copy protection so that only programs that are allowed to be recorded would be recorded. 5C Digital Transmission Content Protection White Paper Last edited by HDTV1080P; 02-12-2009 at 05:01 PM.

02-12-2009, 05:18 PM	#14
HDTV1080P Blu-ray Champion Top contributor Member since:Jan 2007 Blu-ray reviews: 205	Currently I have a few JVC D-VHS machines that allows 1080I and 720P recordings with its built in ATSC tuner or connection to the Verizon FIOS cable box using IEEE-1394. All HD cable boxes by law are required to have a working IEEE-1394 connection. Verizon has two IEEE-1394 interfaces and I have 2 D-VHS's connected to one HD DVR box and 1 D-VHS connected to the each other HD Verizon box. If a program is marked by the program provider as copy never under the 5C copy protection the program will not be recorded. D-VHS, S-VHS, and VHS standalones are no longer made. Just cheap VHS/DVD combo's that allow 480I recording only. Personally I do no recording at all and watch almost 100% BLU-RAY prerecorded movies, but my family members do lots of recording. Hoping a BLU-RAY recorder will appear soon in the US. Last edited by HDTV1080P; 02-13-2009 at 12:42 AM.

Similar Threads
thread	Forum	Thread Starter	Replies	Last Post
Standard DVD format on Blu-ray?	Blu-ray Technology and Future Technology	Darktrader	27	10-06-2008 12:49 AM
Dual format HD-DVD/Blu-ray burners	Blu-ray PCs, Laptops, Drives, Media and Software	AAM	0	02-08-2008 12:18 AM
Blu-ray only movies now also in HD-DVD format	General Chat	Snake-V2	7	09-10-2007 08:36 PM
article: The Hd-dvd Format Now Has More Titles Then The Blu-ray Format	Blu-ray Technology and Future Technology	HDTV1080P	66	08-29-2007 10:44 PM
Target to Promote Blu-Ray DVD Format	Blu-ray Players and Recorders	mmmhome	6	07-26-2007 01:57 PM

02-12-2009, 04:53 PM	#2
Sonny Blu-ray Ninja Member since:Aug 2007 Home Theater Gallery:8 Blu-ray reviews:6 Trading Score:1	they should of had BD rec here 2 years ago

02-12-2009, 04:56 PM	#4
bhampton Blu-ray Count Member since:Aug 2007 4K collection:981 Blu-ray collection:2537 DVD collection:67 Blu-ray reviews: 6 Trading Score:18	Interesting, I'm content to let the studios to the mastering for me. I don't see a need for a VCR-ish type of setup maybe because I don't watch TV. -Brian

02-12-2009, 05:04 PM	#9
Clark Kent Blu-ray Prince Top contributor Member since:Oct 2007 Location:Metropolis Blu-ray reviews:2 Trading Score:184	The manufacturers are well aware of the demand for recorders in the United States. It is a political decision to appease the intellectual property owners in the U.S., namely the Hollywood movie studios. Hollywood recognizes that the ability to record 1080i movies and tv shows off of cable or broadcast would slow the growth of BD media sales. Hollywood would rather sell you the BD for $30 than have you record it for free off of HBO. There is a symbiotic relationship between the content owners and the hardware makers; they do not like to step on each other's toes. Japan is a special case that the studios tolerate.

02-12-2009, 05:07 PM	#10
navyman Active Member Member since:Mar 2008 Location:Ingleside, Texas Blu-ray collection:147 Blu-ray reviews:2	I feel that Blu-ray recorders are not essential to the success of blu-ray as a whole. I don't have the numbers to show my point but I do not believe dvd recorders ever really took off for the consumer market in the US, which would show why their is a lack of Blu-ray recorders avialable in our market. There is a market for people wanting to store and record television in high def but that market is being filled by DVRs. Most if not all cable/satellite companies provide DVRs for a reasonable amount compared to the price of a blu-ray recorder and they do have DVRs capable of recording High Def TV in the full quality that the shows are aired. Long term storage is an issue but a growing number of companies are allowing for the archiving of shows into external hard drives. Given the low cost alternatives that are already capable of storing HD content at the full resolution aired and the high expense of blank blu-ray media, I do not think it makes sense for companies to go out of their way to produce very expensive recording systems for a niche market. Nor do I see why a niche market would keep blu-ray from overtaking DVD as a standard sooner rather then later.

02-12-2009, 10:49 PM	#16
bhampton Blu-ray Count Member since:Aug 2007 4K collection:981 Blu-ray collection:2537 DVD collection:67 Blu-ray reviews: 6 Trading Score:18	Quote "You say you "don't see a need for" them. Certainly you see a "need" for them for the other hundreds of millions of TV viewers in the U.S. alone, right?" I don't know... I'm not into sports, or reality shows, I get my news and weather from the internet and I hate what broadcast TV does to movies so I watch maybe 10 minutes of TV a month or less. I do eventually netflix plenty of series like Lost or Alias but when I discover something like that I'm usually 3 seasons behind so netflix is great for that. Now,... people I know who watch TV all have DVR's... So... I don't know that they want Blu Ray recording capabilities. My Step dad for example subscribes to cable and has a DVR (Tivo-ish thing) and a Blu Ray player and I think he feels like he's got it all. -Brian

02-13-2009, 02:55 AM	#17
HDTV1080P Blu-ray Champion Top contributor Member since:Jan 2007 Blu-ray reviews: 205	If a standalone BLU-RAY recorder is not released in the USA then consumers will continue to record TV shows on DVR's and DVD recorders. If low cost BLU-RAY recorders became available then one day DVD recorders would be discontinued just like VHS standalone recorders were. If consumers cannot record on BLU-RAY they will continue to purchase the several models of DVD recorders located at Best Buy and Walmart. Of course DVR's are more popular now for ease of use and short term storage . Now if you are talking about pre-recorded movies the Hollywood studios could decide in 10 or 20 years to stop releasing on the DVD format but then DVD recorders would still be popular if no BLU-RAY recorder was available on the US market. I am hoping that in a few years BLU-RAY standalone recorders will be released in the USA. Consumers in the USA are stuck with 480I DVD recorders and HD DVR's that require a subscription most of the time.

02-13-2009, 03:32 AM	#18
andyman1970 Blu-ray Guru Member since:Aug 2008 Location:Birmingham, Alabama, USA DVD collection:9 Blu-ray reviews: 45 Trading Score:7	I don't need a Blu-ray recorder. I have a DVR. I would rather wait and let the studios release my favorite shows remastered on Blu-ray and buy them without all the commercials.

02-13-2009, 12:34 PM	#19
shooter3295 Active Member Member since:Dec 2008 Location:Northern Wisconsin	Recorders would be nice,....but they will just gouge us on the prices,....just like they did with first gen BD players. A price reduction on the movies of $5 would do more to spread Blu-Ray than a recorder would at this point. Besides,....they already have "Drives" that recored for your computer,....and it's not that hard to get HD content to your Hard Drive and then to the disc.

02-13-2009, 02:27 PM	#20
dobyblue Super Moderator Top contributor Member since:Jul 2006 Location:Ontario, Canada Home Theater Gallery:71 4K collection:55 Blu-ray collection:655 Blu-ray reviews: 15	The title of this thread is 100% incorrect. The success of Blu-ray doesn't depend on Blu-ray Recorders at all. I know many more people already that have Blu-ray Disc players than have DVD recorders. PVR's and DVR's is where it's at, storage is dirt cheap (1.5TB drives for under $150) and getting cheaper. Sorry, but the media-recorder has meant very little in North America for success of media - VHS went out because DVD's became affordable and players got cheap, in addition to people got tired of being kind and rewinding.

Best Blu-ray Movie Deals