The Shining 4K UHD (1980)

[Member-167298]

Why are we arguing? The helicopter shadow at the beginning of the 1.33 version is amazing. Adds so much to the film.

[AlexIlDottore]

Arguing?

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Cherokee Jack

Kind of asking for a fight with language like that (not that I really want one; I have plenty of civil discussions with my GF over which edit is better). I enjoy many glacially paced long films and in fact tend to prefer films that take their time so this is not an 'attention span' issue for me. Hell, Barry Lyndon's one of the Kubrick films I go back to most often and it's both longer than and arguably slower than the American cut of The Shining. But I do think the Euro cut succeeds better as a horror film and it would seem that mattered to Kubrick quite a bit since he supposedly cut it down after not being happy with the response in America.

Right? Pacing is about finding the right rhythm for the story you want to tell, whether it's over 4 minutes or 4 hours, and storytelling isn't about spunking every last frame of film up onto the screen for the sake of it - hence my despair when the running time of an assembly cut is mentioned in an interview with whatever filmmaker, so certain people now have it in their head that a mythical umpteen-hour long version exists.

I've stayed out of the longer/shorter Shinning debate (in this particular SK thread at least ) up until now because it's all been done to death, but **** it: I don't much like the longer version. For me it outstays its welcome as it's a horror film that doesn't really have a whole lot happening in it, this is by design BUT there comes a point for me that whatever sensation of creeping dread it possesses gradually fritters away each time. The shorter version however maintains that atmosphere IMO.

Alien is a "slow" film that got this kind of rhythm absolutely dead-on within its <2hr running time, and it's why Ridley Scott nixed Fox's original attempt at doing an extended version which was just gonna chuck in a load of deleted scenes on top. He eventually gave them their deleted scenes but only by tightening up the rest of the existing movie around it, delivering quite a different cut at almost the same running time. Those two versions are a good study for anyone who wants to actually learn about what pacing is and does (hint: it's not always about total running time being longer or shorter) instead of dismissing such things as pseudo-intellectual claptrap.

Hopefully this alleged Shining UHD will contain both cuts in all editions (it's the only way to be sure) so I look forward to watching the longer version again and seeing if my opinion and/or my attention span has changed. Strange thing is, given that obvious deficiency of mine, I also find Barry Lyndon to be an almost hypnotic watch, the length of that film is absolutely perfect and I even think it may be SK's true masterpiece (amongst a slew of other masterpieces, natch).

[captainsolo]

A proper transfer with proper color timing and the original mono would provide this film with its first truly proper home video release.

That said many of the older 1.33 transfers do shape up pretty well and have the original mono. Each had to be carefully done in masking and presentation to maintain a framing for this film which was intended for widescreen matting. Some theaters have done impromptu 1.33 showings of prints that weren't hard matted however and it is possible to do so but you run the risk of exposing too much such as the helicopter shadow etc. (Of course if every rep theater or arthouse did their due diligence in researching each film's history we'd all be better off.) 1.85 is what was intended though Kubrick did love the 1.66 ratio for the verticality. (I do as well.)

When the new HD master went with 1.78, we at least finally got widescreen matting on video, but it isn't the intended 1.85. I think as with Barry Lyndon, SK would have made sure there was a ratio of protected image as he always worried about bad projection and so the 1.78 framing while not ideal is okay.

All modern prints are from the last run of WB ones done around the time of the DVD corrections for some festival showings in about 2001 or so. All of these Shining prints are hard matted and have only the sound remix in Dolby SR and 5.1. If they had the mono they would be perfect as they look stellar and accurate unlike the HD master with the pink tennis balls.


I'd love for this to be fully accurate (easily achievable) and feature both the US and UK/International versions (It's WB so probably won't happen) for at least history's sake and that SK felt the shorter cut was an improvement. Even moreso I'd love for all the deleted materials that exist to at the very least be documented in a docu piece as an extra, but since the found 2001 footage was never released I doubt the estate would let it happen. (I do think SK would be shocked at the level of interest in his work to this day and might have eventually changed his mind on allowing dedicated extras to be made since the notion of Special Editions have taken off and some are treasure troves for those of us who do far too much research.)

If we can at the very least get a proper 4K transfer with the original mono then this will be one more Kubrick title that is at least properly represented on video finally. Full Metal Jacket will be easier to do because it has less debates ongoing and WB still sends out original 1987 LPP prints for arthouses which are amazing. (And have the original mono!)

Please let this mean Eyes Wide Shut is forthcoming. I can't think of a single title more inadequately represented visually on home video than perhaps some of Universal's held Hitchcock titles.

The only hope I have gotten over the WB Kubrick titles in 4K is that they finally acknowledged 2001 needed its original audio restored to the public and did so.

[Bronson13]

Originally Posted by AlexIlDottore

How about you actually watch both valid versions before completely shitting on the one you haven't seen? You'd know more on the subject. im not doing fighting talk. im just talking sense. I mean it wasn't cut down by just any old so and so.

I appreciate both versions.

I’ve seen both versions and I’ve seen the EU cut multiple times and I think the original cut is 100x better

[Croweyes1121]

Originally Posted by AlexIlDottore

How about you actually watch both valid versions before completely shitting on the one you haven't seen? You'd know more on the subject. im not doing fighting talk. im just talking sense. I mean it wasn't cut down by just any old so and so.

I appreciate both versions.

As I said, I will watch the shorter cut if it's included, as a curiosity. I understand its validity and I in no way "shit on" it. I just explained why I personally can't see cutting down a film I know intimately as a good thing. And from what's been posted before, Kubrick original version WAS the long version. When it was released overseas, it was requested to be cut shorter. That to me doesn't seem like Kubrick deciding it was too long so much as a marketing decision for the UK region. Again, I'm not taking anything away from those who prefer it at all. Just won't be for me. I mean, it would be like my finding out that there's a shorter version of Star Wars with "better pacing". That may well be fully and completely true. But I'm not going to prefer it. There just isn't any possible way. Don't know what else to say on the subject.

[Geoff D]

You can say that you don't prefer it all you want, it's when you start off by casting shit at people for daring to like something that you don't ("snobs", "short attention spans") that it might rankle with said people. Don't do it so aggressively, do it passive-aggressively like I always do! 60% of the time it works every time.

[Croweyes1121]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

You can say that you don't prefer it all you want, it's when you start off by casting shit at people for daring to like something that you don't ("snobs", "short attention spans") that it might rankle with said people. Don't do it so aggressively, do it passive-aggressively like I always do! 60% of the time it works every time.

Point taken about my take on the term “pacing”. I wasn’t “casting shit” on anyone. I was making a blanket statement about that term and how it’s thrown around in film circles in general, not specifically calling out people who prefer the UK cut of The Shining as being particularly guilty of it. I should have made that more clear rather than lean on an awkward segue. My apologies.

[BluProofie]

I hope the 4K version changes the Room 237 scene so that the terrifying thing we see is an aspect ratio argument in a Kubrick thread.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by BluProofie

I hope the 4K version changes the Room 237 scene so that the terrifying thing we see is an aspect ratio argument in a Kubrick thread.

What if he goes in and he sees the 1.85 standing there, all nekkid and dripping wet, but once he embraces it it becomes the 1.33 and then he backs away, horrified, as Leon Vitali's laugh is played menacingly via the Atmos heights.

[dallywhitty]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

What if he goes in and he sees the 1.85 standing there, all nekkid and dripping wet, but once he embraces it it becomes the 1.33 and then he backs away, horrified, as Leon Vitali's laugh is played menacingly via the Atmos heights.

I lol'ed.

[AlexIlDottore]

Originally Posted by Bronson13

I’ve seen both versions and I’ve seen the EU cut multiple times and I think the original cut is 100x better

yeah. at least you've seen both versions. considering I'm in my 40s, I'd say I've seen both cuts more times than you have and shock horror, I like both. Does that make my opinion any more valid than yours? No.

[Nicolawicz]

Has anybody heard about another scene Kubrick cut after the premiere, where Hallorann picks up the snowcat? It supposedly ends with a continuation of the shot of Durkin's Garage, dissolving into the scene where Danny is watching The Road Runner (with the "auto supply" sign turning into a picture on the wall in the hotel room).

[KevinStriker]

If Danny's tennis ball is pink, we riot.

[AlexIlDottore]

Originally Posted by Croweyes1121

As I said, I will watch the shorter cut if it's included, as a curiosity. I understand its validity and I in no way "shit on" it. I just explained why I personally can't see cutting down a film I know intimately as a good thing. And from what's been posted before, Kubrick original version WAS the long version. When it was released overseas, it was requested to be cut shorter. That to me doesn't seem like Kubrick deciding it was too long so much as a marketing decision for the UK region. Again, I'm not taking anything away from those who prefer it at all. Just won't be for me. I mean, it would be like my finding out that there's a shorter version of Star Wars with "better pacing". That may well be fully and completely true. But I'm not going to prefer it. There just isn't any possible way. Don't know what else to say on the subject.

you can say it was a marketing decision, but remember Kubrick had control. and it wasnt the marketing department at warners who cut it down. again, I can't really take your points seriously as you're dumping on something you've never seen.

[The Dark Shape]

I've only seen the UK version once, when it was mistakenly available on US Netflix, and I found it a fair bit less creepy than the US cut -- I just felt less dread.

[Bronson13]

Originally Posted by Nicolawicz

Has anybody heard about another scene Kubrick cut after the premiere, where Hallorann picks up the snowcat? It supposedly ends with a continuation of the shot of Durkin's Garage, dissolving into the scene where Danny is watching The Road Runner (with the "auto supply" sign turning into a picture on the wall in the hotel room).

Hm I’ve never heard about that but that’s pretty sweet. Would love to see it.

[KubrickKurasawa]

Originally Posted by Nicolawicz

Has anybody heard about another scene Kubrick cut after the premiere, where Hallorann picks up the snowcat? It supposedly ends with a continuation of the shot of Durkin's Garage, dissolving into the scene where Danny is watching The Road Runner (with the "auto supply" sign turning into a picture on the wall in the hotel room).

I know I read somewhere that when Halloran starts freaking out/shining in the bedroom scene cut with Danny he is supposed to be having conversations/Shining's with Danny. He also knows Jacks trying to kill his family from Danny by Shining with him across a distance, because he and Grady tell him he/Danny is more powerful than you imagine Jack. Remember the blood colored bathroom? Yep Danny is shining with Halloran. He's going to bring in the outside party. And Halloran calls his boss and gets flights back to check on the hotel.... and the snowcat running apparently, or gets one from the garage you're talking of?

[Show spoiler]

Anyway this alternate idea or scene seems to end with halloran who comes back to help them from Jack so they can get away. This ending probably ends with that Hospital scene with the guy that hired him as well you can find screen shots of.

[Show spoiler]

But I remember it must not flow that way because of the scene with Jack Torrence ripping off the distributor. It seemed looking at some of Kubricks notes he probably had different endings planned out. I'd say for sure 2 but I don't know how many he actually filmed and really not many people will know. Maybe Halloran saves Danny and Wendy and he gets them to a hospital. Jack might still freeze and die. So it's very similar. I doubt it was that good because Kubrick knows what works best, and obviously this they get saved ending is done all the time. But Danny outsmarting his Father and avoiding his own death is the more original ending. He saves himself and is the final Boy not the final girl? LOL anyway...

So I don't go for that ending or these aspect ratios below 1.85 or arguments on a UK/Censored cuts. An American TV cut or a Die Hard TV cut being released LOL.

Kubrick was still 100% in his prime for The Shining so he got it right. The alternate ending sounds to typical for Kubrick I don't buy it, and he never wanted it released because it sucked. IMO of course no reason to try and Ban me over my opinions people.

[Cook]

Originally Posted by The Dark Shape

I've only seen the UK version once, when it was mistakenly available on US Netflix, and I found it a fair bit less creepy than the US cut -- I just felt less dread.

None of the scenes cut aside from maybe the skeletons add dread to the film. It's just scenes of them watching TV, references to the outside world, halloran's journey to the Overlook, and the skeleton scene.

[KevinStriker]

I'm so used to the American version that I really can't think of watching the movie any other way. Feels like that much more of a slow burn when the movie has more room to breath. Of course, both cuts are still The Shining.

And plus, I think Wendy and the pediatrician's discussion and other bits of small talk about Jack would leave the viewer with more dread (subconsciously or no) than the skeletons would, which is more of a shock to your system like the bear-suited man.