mp3 surround worth it?

[micks_address]

Hi Folks,

I wondered if anyone had tried encoding any of their mp3's with something like this surround decoder ( see below link)? We have all our cds stored as mp3s on the ps3 and i've recently upgraded my av speakers so i am experimenting with getting the best sound out of the ps3. Currently I'm connect via HDMI using pcm so i'm only getting stereo sound from my front speakers plus subwoofer.

if i encoded in surround would the ps3 give me sound through all speakers and would it sound better? i think i read in one of the firmware updates that mp3 surround playback is now supported?

Cheers,
Mick

http://www.iis.fraunhofer.de/EN/bf/amm/mp3sur/

[richteer]

Originally Posted by micks_address

if i encoded in surround would the ps3 give me sound through all speakers and would it sound better?

No. MP3 is the antithesis of good sound quality. No matter how much you polish the MP3 turd, it's still a turd.

If you care about sound quality, use a lossless compression scheme, or don't use compression at all.

Just say no to MP3!

[mmunro2003]

Originally Posted by richteer

Just say no to MP3!

Lol, its true MP3 is lower quality than CD's. God I still wish Super Audio and DVD-Audio caught on more, but then those stupid I-Poo's came out.

[zicmubleu]

Originally Posted by mmunro2003

Lol, its true MP3 is lower quality than CD's. God I still wish Super Audio and DVD-Audio caught on more, but then those stupid I-Poo's came out.

Well now we need to work on Blu-ray audio, support it when you find something you like even if it is a bit more than you would want to pay. Only through mass production will the prices come down to something reasonable.

MP3 upconversion - that's an oxymoron

[chagocal]

Originally Posted by richteer

No. MP3 is the antithesis of good sound quality. No matter how much you polish the MP3 turd, it's still a turd.

If you care about sound quality, use a lossless compression scheme, or don't use compression at all.

Just say no to MP3!

+1

[ToEhrIsHuman]

You would be better off funneling the PCM stereo you get from your MP3s on the PS3 thru Dolby ProLogic II on your receiver to get surround. Problem is that the PS3 likes to output stereo as 5.1 PCM with the center and surround channels silent. You need to go into your audio settings on the PS3 and select only 2-channel output, then let your receiver do the work.

[Cisco in HD]

Sorry for this to be off topic, but since this has to do with mp3s I have a question. Being that I have iTunes to manage my portable music, since mp3s aren't that great, which would be the better option (file extenstion) to 'import' cd music for personal use?

[richteer]

Originally Posted by Cisco in HD

Sorry for this to be off topic, but since this has to do with mp3s I have a question. Being that I have iTunes to manage my portable music, since mp3s aren't that great, which would be the better option (file extenstion) to 'import' cd music for personal use?

Uncompressed would be .wav; I think lossless is FLAC (there might be another format too). I have know idea what file extension that would be. I don't use iTunes, so I can't help anymore; sorry...

[Branden]

Originally Posted by micks_address

I wondered if anyone had tried encoding any of their mp3's with something like this surround decoder ( see below link)? We have all our cds stored as mp3s on the ps3 and i've recently upgraded my av speakers so i am experimenting with getting the best sound out of the ps3.

it won't do you much good encoding your CD collection in a 5.1 mp3 since it's only stereo. even if you're playing a 2 channel song i believe the PS3 will fill in the remaining channels appropriately (someone could clarify?)
i'd say rip in flac, or if you're pressed for space rip in aac.

Originally Posted by richteer

Uncompressed would be .wav; I think lossless is FLAC (there might be another format too). I have know idea what file extension that would be. I don't use iTunes, so I can't help anymore; sorry...

there are several lossless codecs: flac, ape, mpc, ofr, shn, tta, and even wma10 now has lossless abilities.
i avoid iPod and iTunes like the LQ plague they are, but i believe iTunes uses the aac codec (in an m4a container), which is significantly superior to mp3. aac/m4a is an excellent lossy codec, and the PS3 likes it too.

Personally, i never purchase music online cause it all sucks, rip all my discs to 400mbps aac, rip my favourite bands to flac, and stream it all thru a media server so my PS3 can pick it up too.

[dobyblue]

There are software packages you can get for your iPod which will play .flacs with no gaps and allow searching/indexing.
I believe Rockbox is one of them.

[Cisco in HD]

The options for importing CDs into iTunes are as follows :

AAC 128/256kbps
AIFF (auto)
Apple lossless encoder (auto)
Mp3
WAV (auto)

So which of these would be the best option(s) to get better sounding music from my CDs??

Thanks

[Branden]

Originally Posted by Cisco in HD

The options for importing CDs into iTunes are as follows :

AAC 128/256kbps
AIFF (auto)
Apple lossless encoder (auto)
Mp3
WAV (auto)

So which of these would be the best option(s) to get better sounding music from my CDs??

Thanks

128 aac - meh
256 aac - would be very good quality, 90% of people would find this indistinguishable from lossless
aiff - hard to say without knowing what (auto) means
apple lossless - 'nuff said
mp3 - NO!!
wav - best of the best, but takes up tons of space

pick a song with a 'crisp' sound, rip it to all of the above, put on a quality set of headphones, and compare what you hear to file size.

[Squozen]

Originally Posted by Branden

128 aac - meh
256 aac - would be very good quality, 90% of people would find this indistinguishable from lossless
aiff - hard to say without knowing what (auto) means
apple lossless - 'nuff said
mp3 - NO!!
wav - best of the best, but takes up tons of space.

AIFF is the equivalent of WAV, it's the Macintosh lossless, uncompressed sound format.

If you're compressing in iTunes and don't want to lose quality, use Apple Lossless. It will work on iPods (unless you're using a Shuffle) and save a fair amount of HD space. You can always convert to another format later if you need to without losing any sound quality.

[micks_address]

tried this last night and it works a treat - but its not really feasible to change the sound settings each time you want to listen to music... any chance of sony adding an option for stereo playback for music only in a firmware update?

anyway i tried the encoder option breifly and couldnt get it to encode a file at all... so a non runner.. but might look into it a bit more..

i know lossless is the preferred option but i just dont think its realistice to use 600mb of space for a cd... i have ripped at 256 mp3 and while i know its not cd quality.. its not terrible..

am i right in thinking for lossless or close to lossless i'd be looking at about 600mb per cd on the ps3? that would be .6GB * 200 = 120gb?

i have a 250gb hard disk in the ps3 so i have space but we also keep quite a few videos/photos on the ps3 as well.. as its very handy..

if i was to go down the lossless route - what ripper should i use? i would probably do the importing of cds on my pc.. id tag the files (again )

i use tag and rename for id tags but if there was a program that would reliably do it while importing the cd would save a lot of hassle..

i somehow dont think my wife is going to be to impressed if i ask her to start importing cds again..

just a note though.. if i cant use the dolby functionality of my receiver when using pcm 5.1 - wouldnt encoding the stereo mp3 to mp3 surround - effectively be doing the same thing as using the receivers dolby pro logic mode?

and not to cause a row or anything but according to some

256kb is pretty much indiscernable from the original cd recording..

http://www.mp3-tech.org/tests/gb/index.html

Cheers,
Mick

Originally Posted by ToEhrIsHuman

You would be better off funneling the PCM stereo you get from your MP3s on the PS3 thru Dolby ProLogic II on your receiver to get surround. Problem is that the PS3 likes to output stereo as 5.1 PCM with the center and surround channels silent. You need to go into your audio settings on the PS3 and select only 2-channel output, then let your receiver do the work.

[Branden]

Originally Posted by micks_address

i know lossless is the preferred option but i just dont think its realistice to use 600mb of space for a cd... i have ripped at 256 mp3 and while i know its not cd quality.. its not terrible..

if you think 256 mp3 is fine, then why not go 256 aac instead? it'll be same file size but with much better quality.

Originally Posted by micks_address

am i right in thinking for lossless or close to lossless i'd be looking at about 600mb per cd on the ps3?

depending on album length you would be looking at up to 650mb for uncompressed (wav), 250mb+ for lossless (flac), approx 100-200mb for HQ lossy (400kbps aac), and much less for LQ lossy (128kbps mp3)

Originally Posted by micks_address

i have a 250gb hard disk in the ps3 so i have space but we also keep quite a few videos/photos on the ps3 as well.. as its very handy..

even if you fill that up you can always plug an external HDD enclosure into the USB. you can get 2TB 3.5" disks now. or you could setup a media server on your PC, i find this ideal.

Originally Posted by micks_address

if i was to go down the lossless route - what ripper should i use? i would probably do the importing of cds on my pc.. id tag the files (again )

i use tag and rename for id tags but if there was a program that would reliably do it while importing the cd would save a lot of hassle..

i somehow dont think my wife is going to be to impressed if i ask her to start importing cds again..

i use dbpoweramp, it makes ripping easy. it'll fill out id tags automatically (including album art) from freedb and automatically name and sort files to your preset preferences; so it's just a matter of swapping discs in and out. it can rip and convert between any audio format. there is a free version, but it's well worth the $$ imo.

Originally Posted by micks_address

according to some 256kb is pretty much indiscernable from the original cd recording..

the creators of mp3 like to claim a 128kbps mp3 is 'CD quality'. obviously that is pure BS to anyone not using their old gameboy earbuds. you have to keep in mind the purpose of mp3. it came about in the days of dial-up so people could quickly download/transfer music samples or audio clips, and it stuck. it never had quality because it was never meant for it.

apparent quality is very subjective. how good is your hearing? how good is your equipment? what kind of music? in what environment?
when i'm in a friend's car and their mix CD is playing i can pick out which tracks he downloaded and which were ripped, he can't. i can distinguish between CD and 350kbps mp3 more easily on 'crisp' music than 'distorted' music. i'm ok with 256kbps mp3 in the car or on the train, but i wouldn't put up with it at home.

[richteer]

Originally Posted by micks_address

i know lossless is the preferred option but i just dont think its realistice to use 600mb of space for a cd... i have ripped at 256 mp3 and while i know its not cd quality.. its not terrible..

am i right in thinking for lossless or close to lossless i'd be looking at about 600mb per cd on the ps3? that would be .6GB * 200 = 120gb?

It seems that you might be confusing "uncompressed" and "lossless". Lossless files should be a fair bit smaller than uncompressed, but sound the same.

256kb is pretty much indiscernable from the original cd recording..

http://www.mp3-tech.org/tests/gb/index.html

Snort! You expect the creators of MP3 to say otherwise?! With half decent gear, MP3 is not "pretty much indiscernable from the original cd recording".

[micks_address]

is there a lossless codec supported on the ps3? am i right in thinking flac isnt supported?

whats the next best option then in terms of sound quality versus disk space...?

Originally Posted by richteer

It seems that you might be confusing "uncompressed" and "lossless". Lossless files should be a fair bit smaller than uncompressed, but sound the same.



Snort! You expect the creators of MP3 to say otherwise?! With half decent gear, MP3 is not "pretty much indiscernable from the original cd recording".

[Cisco in HD]

Micks,
Last night I converted a 15 song album from 100megs (Mp3 192kbps) to AAC 256kbps and the file size increased to 135megs. Which wasn't that much of a size bump, but when I plugged my iPod into my usb car the music was fuller, cleaner and clearer. Now I haven't tried flac file type, but 35meg increase isn't too much of a sacrifice on an album. If you have iTunes you don't even need to reimport the cd, you can convert it right in your music library and hear the difference yourself.

Just my .02

[micks_address]

so you guys reckon 256 aac is the way to go? for portability? i dont want to have to rip my collection in the future again

cheers,
mick