Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Steedeel is correct you don't look at any Links Posted. You are a smart guy, doesn't it make sense that Adaptive Streaming needs two way communication? With the CDN two way communication is vital to set up the proper Streaming Content. CDN Servers rely on this communication to set everything up. The Server will set up like a Local one.

How exactly would you know if I read the links posted by others or not? Quite the ASSumption that you are making there. For your information, I do read the linked articles posted by others and I watch the videos that they post, too. I often quote or paraphrase from them when I make my replies. Have you already forgotten my detailed response to you back when you posted that video about the 2019 TV Shootout hosted by Robert Zohn? Or the many other times that I quoted your posted articles to refute the very point that you were trying to make? If I am anything, I am thorough.

Your last posted link was just a list of search results and they do not mean what you think they do; no surprise there. The upload speeds mentioned on that page of search results were for broadcasters and content providers, not for consumers receiving streamed content to their home. The top item on that page of search results states that the minimum requirement to broadcast 1080p resolution content to the end use consumer requires an upload speed of 3.5 Mbps. It had NOTHING to do with what the viewer needed to watch the streamed content; it was information for the entity offering the content. Maybe you need to read the links that you post with actual comprehension before insisting that others do so?

The top entry from the search results link that you posted:

"How fast does my Internet need to be to stream?
Below are the resolutions StreamSpot supports and the required bandwidth for each HD broadcast:

1920x1080 (1080i/p HD) - minimum 3.5Mbps upload speed
1280x720 (720p HD) - minimum 1.8Mbps upload speed
720x480 (480p) - minimum 1.2Mbps upload speed"

https://support.streamspot.com/hc/en...-be-to-stream-

And what exactly is StreamSpot you might ask:

"StreamSpot is a tool that simplifies live streaming for churches, events and synagogues and automates multi-platform content distribution. The platform allows organizations to focus more on their events instead of worrying about how to stream and offers all the required tools to deliver high-quality broadcasts."

https://reviews.financesonline.com/p/streamspot/

I don't broadcast content; I only receive it like virtually every other streaming service customer. I have no plans to offer a live stream from my home anytime soon and thus your link was not relevant. This is why I made no mention of your link because once again you misunderstood what you were reading.

Where did I say that NO upload speed was needed? That's right, I did not say any such thing. I said that there was no need for upload speeds to be identical to, or symmetrical with, download speeds. There is very little upload communication when streaming videos and it requires extremely low bandwidth to achieve. What little upload communication there is occurs at the very beginning of the viewing session when a selection is being chosen, when the connection between the viewer and the content delivery network's server is being established, and to confirm the receipt (known as an ack for acknowledgement) of each sent packet of data none of which requires any appreciable bandwidth to accomplish. Other than that, streaming is all download speed from there.

If uploads speeds were a significant requirement to stream videos then the streaming providers would so specify. They do not and the reason why they do not should be plainly obvious. They don't because any internet connection that supports their download speed requirement more than meets the very tiny upload speed needed to select a video and to initiate streaming of it. None of this should be hard to understand.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by The_Donster

[Show spoiler]

I would like to hear that song when you are ready.

[Steedeel]

A point I forgot to make yesterday was that if the current usage of video increases (obviously it will) it could match the Aviation section by 2030. The Aviation section is considered one of the biggest factors for the climate. Heck, they are talking about a levy/tax for frequent flyers. Don’t be surprised to see a tax for heavy internet users/streamers.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

Of course taxes will increase. But there is an enormous difference between increased taxes and the outright bans and restrictions you've been predicting.

Don’t you see though, once you start sticking taxes on things, usage will go down and 4K will be frowned upon. It’s a backwards step, just like digital.

[PenguinInfinity]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Don’t you see though, once you start sticking taxes on things, usage will go down and 4K will be frowned upon. It’s a backwards step, just like digital.

DVD is the most popular physical format and most digital viewing is in SD; nothing is ever going to cause the majority of people to care about video or audio quality. But on the flip side nothing is going to make the small percentage of people who do care about video and audio quality to give it up. The tax would have to be enormous to make a dent in viewership.

If anything we should be happy about increases in internet prices because it means that some people who care about watching in HD or 4K may switch over to physical media instead as a more affordable option.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

DVD is the most popular physical format and most digital viewing is in SD; nothing is ever going to cause the majority of people to care about video or audio quality. But on the flip side nothing is going to make the small percentage of people who do care about video and audio quality to give it up. The tax would have to be enormous to make a dent in viewership.

Do you have anything to back that up about Digital being mostly SD. I heard different. Apple don’t sell SD anymore and Netflix can hit HD as low as 2mbps. I’m sure I read in a official report that people were choosing HD over SD for rentals also.

[PenguinInfinity]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Do you have anything to back that up about Digital being mostly SD. I heard different.

I know that Netflix's average bitrate per user is under 5 mbps. That may technically be HD (720p) but it still isn't particularly high quality. The percentage of people watching 4K content (on physical or digital) is definitely low.

My point was just that no one is going to be forced to watch low quality content, they're already choosing to do that themselves. Those who want to watch high quality content will be willing to pay the extra taxes to do so.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

I know that Netflix's average bitrate per user is under 5 mbps. That may technically be HD (720p) but it still isn't particularly high quality. The percentage of people watching 4K content (on physical or digital) is definitely low.

My point was just that no one is going to be forced to watch low quality content, they're already choosing to do that themselves. Those who want to watch high quality content will be willing to pay the extra taxes to do so.

Netflix can hit 1080p with 3Mbps. It looks HD as well. (Obviously it’s nowhere near Blu-ray though)

So, we can establish there will be a tax for streaming/heavy usage in your opinion? This was disputed by Vilya and Donster.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

DVD is the most popular physical format and most digital viewing is in SD; nothing is ever going to cause the majority of people to care about video or audio quality. But on the flip side nothing is going to make the small percentage of people who do care about video and audio quality to give it up. The tax would have to be enormous to make a dent in viewership.

If anything we should be happy about increases in internet prices because it means that some people who care about watching in HD or 4K may switch over to physical media instead as a more affordable option.

I think people are more likely to switch back to broadcast tv to be honest. They like the all-you-can-eat cheapness of streaming. I don’t think they would go back to disc. Especially younger people.

Also, what’s the point of a big tv if you can’t afford to stream HD or 4K? I say sizes go down at that point. Back to the 32 inch era.

[PenguinInfinity]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

So, we can establish there will be a tax for streaming/heavy usage in your opinion? This was disputed by Vilya and Donster.

Obviously taxes will increase. I don't think Vilya disputed that either:

Originally Posted by Vilya

Cable/ satellite TV and internet/ cell phone service has been taxed for decades. Data caps are nothing new, either.

We all disputed your ridiculous predictions that internet service will be cut off completely when people reach a certain limit. People can always get more bandwidth by paying more money.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

Obviously taxes will increase. I don't think Vilya disputed that either:


We all disputed your ridiculous predictions that internet service will be cut off completely when people reach a certain limit. People can always get more bandwidth by paying more money.

What do you mean increase? We aren’t taxed for streaming at the moment.

I’m talking about a direct tax for streaming video in the home. Not data caps etc..

[PenguinInfinity]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

I think people are more likely to switch back to broadcast tv to be honest. They like the all-you-can-eat cheapness of streaming. I don’t think they would go back to disc. Especially younger people.

People who grew up with just streaming will likely stick with streaming. They'll just pay the increased prices and taxes. They aren't going to switch to broadcast TV or physical media.

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Also, what’s the point of a big tv if you can’t afford to stream HD or 4K? I say sizes go down at that point. Back to the 32 inch era.

Plenty of people like big screens whether or not their better quality. Big TVs are not in danger.

Though personally I use a 28 inch 4k monitor that's less than a 2 feet from my eyes. It's great quality and fills up my field of view so I have no interest in anything bigger.

[PenguinInfinity]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

What do you mean increase? We aren’t taxed for streaming at the moment.

I’m talking about a direct tax for streaming video in the home. Not data caps etc..

Of course we are, internet access is taxed just like every service and purchase. People pay to increase their bandwidth as well and that is taxed too.

Various cities have also added additional taxes on internet subscriptions and streaming subscriptions (among other things).

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

Of course we are, internet access is taxed just like every service and purchase. People pay to increase their bandwidth as well and that is taxed too.

Various cities have also added additional taxes on internet subscriptions and streaming subscriptions (among other things).

It’s complicated in the USA. You have so many different states with different rules.

The climate impact tax will be s perfect opportunity to hit people who enjoy their films and tv. One day or another, we are going back in time like I said we would.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Your last posted link was just a list of search results and they do not mean what you think they do; no surprise there.

Good post. Have always heard a picture was worth a 1000 words, in the case of alchav21 it does not work. Will post the graph again, is there any reader of this thread, besides alchav21, that does not understand the info in the screen grab? The graph was generated by Windows 10 while streaming a program from Netflix.

[Show spoiler]

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Don’t you see though, once you start sticking taxes on things, usage will go down and 4K will be frowned upon. It’s a backwards step, just like digital.

Taxation is about raising revenue for the government and is seldom, if ever, about getting people to stop using the taxed product or service. If everyone stopped drinking alcohol and gave up smoking the government would lose a fortune in tax revenue that would have to be recouped by raising other existing taxes or creating all new ones.

While living in California back when hybrid cars were still a very new product, the state of California offered a sizable tax incentive to anyone buying a hybrid car because it would help reduce air pollution. They still do.

The incentive was a big success and hybrid car sales increased so much that the state government complained about a drop in gas tax revenue due to the high fuel efficiency of all these hybrid cars. In response, the state raised the gas tax to offset the drop in revenue caused by these highly fuel efficient hybrid cars that they had encouraged people to buy!

Once the government gets accustomed to a certain amount of revenue from a specific tax, they will not give up that revenue. If it drops, they will just raise taxes or create new ones to offset any loss.

In some states, people were encouraged to generate their own electricity with solar power. Enough did so that a decline in electric utility tax revenue occurred. To counter this, a new tax was created requiring those that generated their own power to pay a "power grid access" tax. The reasoning behind this tax was that everyone must support the power grid as it supplies power to public necessities like airports, hospitals, etc. If you used the power utility's juice you were taxed; if you generated your own solar power, you were taxed just the same. In essence, they taxed people for using the sun!

They gotcha comin' and goin' as the expression goes.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Good post. Have always heard a picture was worth a 1000 words, in the case of alchav21 it does not work. Will post the graph again, is there any reader of this thread, besides alchav21, that does not understand the info in the screen grab? The graph was generated by Windows 10 while streaming a program from Netflix.

[Show spoiler]

His thinking is entirely rigid and once he believes something, he can not believe otherwise no matter the evidence presented to him.

In that graphic, streaming used 20 Mbps download speed and a mere 400 Kbps upload speed to accomplish the task. The download speed here was 50 times greater than that of the upload speed. In other words 98% of the total bandwidth used was for the download speed.

Seeing as only 400 Kbps upload speed was needed to stream this content there is zero necessity to have symmetrical internet service in order to stream videos. Even archaic DSL internet service easily handles this upload speed requirement. My typical upload speed is 16 Mbps and that is 40 times the upload speed needed for me to stream videos as demonstrated by that chart.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Netflix can hit 1080p with 3Mbps. It looks HD as well. (Obviously it’s nowhere near Blu-ray though)

So, we can establish there will be a tax for streaming/heavy usage in your opinion? This was disputed by Vilya and Donster.

Netflix recommends 5 Mbps for "HD quality."

3 Mbps is their recommendation for "SD quality."

https://help.netflix.com/en/node/306

[The_Donster]

Clearly none of us are as worried about the future as you are Steedeel. So have to ask, why they hell does this keep you up compared to the rest of us? And please, give us something original and not your usual canned responses to direct questions.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by The_Donster

Clearly none of us are as worried about the future as you are Steedeel. So have to ask, why they hell does this keep you up compared to the rest of us? And please, give us something original and not your usual canned responses to direct questions.

I think I read somewhere that forum posts that are critical of his comments will be subject to taxation with an extra penalty applied if either sarcasm or gifs are used. Especially gifs as they are killing the planet, ya know.