Screenshot Comparisons 4K

[Geoff D]

Not to persist in the role of the contrarian but I prefer the colour of the UHD as well, the orange Michael Bay-esque skin tones of the old BD look very outdated and typically SDR to me now, although I do concede that in the opening scene people look a bit too pink. The blacks are milky AF on the old disc too, the much denser blacks on the UHD are much more pleasing from a purely superficial POV. Interesting that you say you "know" it's not accurate in the respect of colour, how so?

Oh, and the BD in the US edition is actually a new disc then? Interesting that they literally just repressed the Paramount platters for the UK set.

[andreasy969]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Not to persist in the role of the contrarian but I prefer the colour of the UHD as well, the orange Michael Bay-esque skin tones of the old BD look very outdated and typically SDR to me now, although I do concede that in the opening scene people look a bit too pink.

IMO there's nothing wrong with the colours of the BD.

Interesting that you say you "know" it's not accurate in the respect of colour, how so?

Because they've been converted (and therefore aren't accurate) and I sometimes actually just "know"/can tell. (and/but that was mostly just me being proactive)

Oh, and the BD in the US edition is actually a new disc then? Interesting that they literally just repressed the Paramount platters for the UK set.

I own the UK set as well. And thought that MAYBE the BD is a new one, since it was Paramount in the UK once. Didn't look into the BD at all except for the aforementioned accident. But I take it that the BD is the same then (?). Basically looked the same at any rate (might actually take a closer look later, so I know which one to watch next time, since it won't be the UHD). EDIT: measures 27.127, so I guess it's the exact same encode...


Anyway, I honestly don't get why we're "arguing" about this mess of a release. See, I would've liked to have a filmic Iron Man with the HDR. But as it is, the disc is a mess and not worthy of the format IMO. I mean, what's next? DNRd Star Wars, but improved death star laser beam? I also don't get the "Marvel wants all MCU movies to look the same" argument. Just leave the films alone please.

[Geoff D]

I didn't think we were "arguing" but discussing, it's surprising how bent out of shape people are getting over this just because some people are daring to like it, but then it's rare that I'm on the side of the "glass half full" folks, no? Though I do love it when this happens because it shows how people (don't necessarily mean you here Andreas) who previously bemoaned that there were too many Debbie downers on this board, nitpicking everything and treating it like the end of the world, are now guilty of doing the exact same thing. Darn these crazy opinions we all have!

Feel free to quote this back at me the next time I've got it in for a disc that you like though!

[Agent Kay]

Sod Iron Man 1 then, that looks like crap

[andreasy969]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

[Show spoiler]I didn't think we were "arguing" but discussing, it's surprising how bent out of shape people are getting over this just because some people are daring to like it, but then it's rare that I'm on the side of the "glass half full" folks, no? Though I do love it when this happens because it shows how people (don't necessarily mean you here Andreas) who previously bemoaned that there were too many Debbie downers on this board, nitpicking everything and treating it like the end of the world, are now guilty of doing the exact same thing. Darn these crazy opinions we all have!

Feel free to quote this back at me the next time I've got it in for a disc that you like though!

Yes, we are discussing, don't have to agree and you can prefer whatever version you like. But in this case, I'd really prefer you preferring the BD and calling the UHD out for the DNR as much as I do. Because I'm afraid if even you start being fine with this (just because of some nice HDR), all hope might be lost. So maybe consider me "arguing" about this a compliment.

Anyway, you showed the good stuff, I mostly showed the bad stuff (IMO). Balance.

[Geoff D]

That's the thing, I've never said it isn't there and I do believe I'm the first person who actually pointed out it'd been hit with the DNR stick. With that in mind I'm hopeful that people revisiting these posts in 10 years' time (Hello, future readers! Geoff, I hope you've got a proper job by now, Christ knows you're old enough) can at least take my comments in that context.

[imhh1]

Stand By Me UHD BD vs 1080p BD

https://slowpics.org/comparison/b192...8-ac0a78054c1e


Men In Black Internationnal UHD BD vs 1080p BD

https://slowpics.org/comparison/6ecc...2-41721a9ff61e



Secret life of pets 2 Dolby Vision Vs HDR10

https://slowpics.org/comparison/a5bb...1-f8a8930ae025



HDR10 to SDR tone mapping(madVR 600nits) VS HDR10

https://slowpics.org/comparison/bcb7...8-52a00c046c84
*OLED, Black Room, Same picture settings, Tripod pictures.


hdr to sdr madvr setting for all the screenshots:
Dynamic tunning: 40
min target: 100
dynamic clipping: 10
highlight recovery: medium

[andreasy969]

Arrival (Paramount vs. Sony (IT))

Only/Major difference here is the colour. And I'm sure the Paramount got it right - that is in particular if I take the director into account. IMO the Sony got some teal treatment and boosted colours (mostly with reds which shows in the suits and skin tones - take #3, #4, #6, #36, #37 (the orange of the badge), #40 , #48 or any of the orange suit caps - the latter actually look inconsistent on the Sony AFAICT)

[Show spoiler](maybe Fox hired the same guys for Braveheart )

.

The Paramount also has the proper, burnt-in Alien subs (example in #46).

Both are @100 nits with the exact same settings. The thumbs are basically all you need here. I'd recommend the Paramount, but feel free to prefer the Sony.

Disclaimer as to why the UHD-BD images may appear to be too dim and please ignore any off-looking colours:

[Show spoiler]Please note that the UHD-BD shots have been converted from HDR to SDR using special techniques, which drastically compresses the dynamic range of the original image (the colour bit depth has been compressed as well). The UHD-BD shots are therefore not an accurate representation of the original HDR image - dynamic range, colours (tone and intensity) and contrast should be taken with a big pinch of salt and the main focus should be on comparing details. Typically, the image will appear too dark (which is by design when the caps are done at 200 nits; on its own they should be viewed with monitor brightness set to 200 nits), may lack a certain "pop" and may at times also appear "boosted" when compared to the BD shots. The SDR conversion should still give you a good idea of the actual image of the UHD-BD though and one should also be able to at least catch a glimpse of the increased dynamic range. The BD shots have been upscaled for comparison purposes, but other than that should be accurate. You might also want to check out this post of mine (incl. the further link there) where I tried to show/explain this:
http://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.ph...&postcount=589

1.

2.

3.

4.

5.

6.

7.

8.

9.

10.

11.

12.

13.

14.

15.

16.

17.

18.

19.

20.

21.

22.

23.

24.

25.

26.

27.

28.

29.

30.

31.

32.

33.

34.

35.

36.

37.

38.

39.

40.

41.

42.

43.

44.

45.

46.

47.

48.

49.

[Agent Kay]

Wonder what the UK one is like in comparison

[Fat Phil]

Lol @ comparison #48

[lgans316]

Those IM UHD caps look bad but hey I can see more details on the flames thanks to HDR. I really wish Disney didn't push that DNR button but it's Disney Digital we are talking about who doesnt give a @@@@.

[Sky_Captain]

[pino]

Just my two cents. I have the Dutch Sony UHD of Arrival and it really matches those caps on the left. Never does it come even close to the caps on the right, even taking HDR > SDR into consideration.

This is on a X900F and X800M2 player, so maybe you just need Sony equipment to see this UHD properly.

[nick4Knight]

I definitely have the Paramount disc. Even though in my market it's released by Village Roadshow who usually do Warners titles only. It's an odd one...

Eh.. you just teetered into "jump the shark" territory for me if you start saying [regarding Iron Man] you can't believe people prefer the UHD's superior contrast, 10-bit colour volume/gamut increase, better black levels and HD; over an ancient, compressed as hell SDR image complete with boosted, 'stylized', blown out and washed out aesthetic.

Agendas so bold as to appear like a home video analogous of Trump Derangement Syndrone in politics maybe ought be left at the door

[andreasy969]

Originally Posted by pino

Just my two cents. I have the Dutch Sony UHD of Arrival and it really matches those caps on the left. Never does it come even close to the caps on the right, even taking HDR > SDR into consideration.

Thanks, but the funny thing is that someone else told me that the Paramount looks like the Sony caps: https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...&postcount=861

So now I have:
- the Paramount looks like the Sony caps
- the Sony looks like the Paramount caps
- the Sony looks like the Sony caps (that is my conclusion of people being defensive re. the Sony)

So I am somewhat "skeptical". What I'll give you is that the colours may be wrong of course - I also didn't check the brightness (and the colours (of the Sony in particular) may be off due to being brighter). But IMHO there's just no way that the Sony and the Paramount look identical in HDR. If they did, they'd look the same in SDR (I don't believe in "tone mapping magic"). Both teal and "more red" may also become only noticeable in direct comparison and it might be exaggerated by the conversion.

[Blu Cider]

Thank you Andreas for those Arrival caps. I'm sticking with my Paramount release for sure.

[andreasy969]

Originally Posted by pino

Just my two cents. I have the Dutch Sony UHD of Arrival and it really matches those caps on the left. Never does it come even close to the caps on the right, even taking HDR > SDR into consideration.

I just took a look at the red face (#48) again. Paramount is 134 nits, Sony 155 nits. There's no way that this explains the red push of the Sony and the Sony is redder no matter what I do. And I can map/judge 155 nits very welll in SDR gamma.

So let's assume that the caps (while not accurate) aren't that far from the truth. (Until maybe Geoff convinces me otherwise.)

[pino]

Originally Posted by andreasy969

I just took a look at the red face (#48) again. Paramount is 134 nits, Sony 155 nits. There's no way that this explains the red push of the Sony and the Sony is redder no matter what I do. And I can map/judge 155 nits very welll in SDR gamma.

So let's assume that the caps (while not accurate) aren't that far from the truth. (Until maybe Geoff convinces me otherwise.)

No doubt. Comparing remains a difficult task and you're the brave one who's treading these waters. I couldn't do what you do, I can only tell you what I see. That red push on the Sony is definitely not as obvious then in 'real life' as what I see on my SDR computer monitor.

[andreasy969]

I got another comment re. #46 also stating that the Sony looks as grey as Paramount.

I did both at their respective max again and the Sony remains greener with madVR (!!!).

Paramount (446 nits) | Sony (496 nits)


The Sony is clearly greener with shots way below 100 nits as well (#42 for ex). So I think the teal is real.

The problem with Arrival is, that the colour is the only thing worth talking about, but the colour is also the thing that can be a b**** with HDR. I wish Geoff had both discs to confirm the green...

[andreasy969]

Originally Posted by pino

I can only tell you what I see.

And I really appretiate it.

That red push on the Sony is definitely not as obvious then in 'real life' as what I see on my SDR computer monitor.

It isn't with my Panasonic player either. It is more red on the Sony there as well, but by no means as much as the madVR caps suggest. But then again, I can't compare both directly that way. I think the truth lies somewhere in between.