Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[JPK]

Originally Posted by Vilya

You seem to think that the studios provide a better master to the streaming providers than are used for discs without any evidence to support the claim.

That is a strange thing to say. I'm well aware of the significant compression applied to both video and audio by streaming services.

I will try again.

1. 4K UHD Blu Ray as a medium already suffers from diminishing returns compared to BD. This is further impacted when some studios don't put enough effort into the releases and in some cases (Disney), effectively neuter them.

2. Many films simply don't have the sound design to warrant the absolute best possible presentation and if you don't LOVE the film but still want to watch it, a good service such as iTunes/Apple TV is a good option.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by JPK

That is a strange thing to say. I'm well aware of the significant compression applied to both video and audio by streaming services.

I will try again.

1. 4K UHD Blu Ray as a medium already suffers from diminishing returns compared to BD. This is further impacted when some studios don't put enough effort into the releases and in some cases (Disney), effectively neuter them.

2. Many films simply don't have the sound design to warrant the absolute best possible presentation and if you don't LOVE the film but still want to watch it, a good service such as iTunes/Apple TV is a good option.

The point is that the studios do not necessarily put any more effort into the masters that are used for digital copies than they do with discs. If the studio uses a less than ideal master for the disc, they likely provide the same lackluster master for the digital copy which is far more compressed than the disc compounding the limitations even more. Digital copies are not automatically sourced from a better master.

Your second point is entirely subjective; that is your criteria, not mine, and not everyone else's. You seem to think that in order to have a worthy "sound design" that you need a lot of audio channels, such as with ATMOS, and that is just not true. Excellent audio fidelity is as important with a mono track as it is with any of the other more immersive multi-channel tracks.

[rui no onna]

Originally Posted by Vilya

For a collection the size of mine, making 1:1 rips to hard drives would be a huge expense and I shudder at how time consuming as well.

Hmm, I'd estimate around $6000 in hardware on the low end (that's if you don't have backup) and forever in ripping time (optical media is slow)

Iirc, it's ~10-15 minutes per DVD, ~30 minutes per BD50 and ~40 minutes per UHD66. Gonna have to check my logs for Matrix Reloaded to see how long that one took. Quite probably 1 hour.

I have a much smaller collection and rip discs as I acquire them so it's quite doable for me. I create a script to rip a batch of discs continuously. Tray opens automatically and I switch discs. Problem is I don't always notice that the tray's open so that does slow things down.

[JPK]

Originally Posted by Vilya

The point is that the studios do not necessarily put any more effort into the masters that are used for digital copies than they do with discs. If the studio uses a less than ideal master for the disc , they likely provide the same lackluster master for the digital copy, too. Digital copies are not automatically sourced from a better master.

Sure, and I wouldn't be any more inclined to buy the digital copy if that was the case.

Usually the decision is between BD and 4K UHD. Or in Disneys case, updating the old BD to 4K (not worth it, in any objective sense).

If its just a movie I want to watch (but not necessarily own) and doesn't have a sound design that warrants a physical media purchase, then i'm happy with digital.

I get all your arguments. I have had them all with friends for years. There would be a handful of people on the planet who have a collection as extensive as mine, and by extension, yours. I'm just deciding what I do moving forward and what objectively makes the most sense.

The argument isn't there for buying a film for $25 that you are mildly interested in watching, that doesn't have sound design that insists on a 7.2.4 $20,000 sound system and that you likely wont watch again; when you can rent it for $7. Additionally you don't have to find a place to store it, within an already stuffed collection.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by JPK

Sure, and I wouldn't be any more inclined to buy the digital copy if that was the case.

Usually the decision is between BD and 4K UHD. Or in Disneys case, updating the old BD to 4K (not worth it, in any objective sense).

If its just a movie I want to watch (but not necessarily own) and doesn't have a sound design that warrants a physical media purchase, then i'm happy with digital.

I get all your arguments. I have had them all with friends for years. There would be a handful of people on the planet who have a collection as extensive as mine, and by extension, yours. I'm just deciding what I do moving forward and what objectively makes the most sense.

The argument isn't there for buying a film for $25 that you are mildly interested in watching, that doesn't have sound design that insists on a 7.2.4 $20,000 sound system and that you likely wont watch again; when you can rent it for $7. Additionally you don't have to find a place to store it, within an already stuffed collection.

I do not buy films that I am "mildly" interested in unless they are bargain priced; I rent them, borrow them, stream them with a subscription streaming service, or watch them free with ads. If my interest grows after having watched them, then I will be more inclined to buy them and at a higher price if necessary.

I have the space to store my movies; they are shelved and alphabetized by title within each format. I would not buy something that I could not store properly. The "it takes up space" argument is the most tiresome one that I hear. Who, besides a hoarder, would collect anything that they did not have the room to keep?

The argument is always "there" as I will argue almost anything. Wanna make sumpin' of it?

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by rui no onna

Hmm, I'd estimate around $6000 in hardware on the low end (that's if you don't have backup) and forever in ripping time (optical media is slow)

Iirc, it's ~10-15 minutes per DVD, ~30 minutes per BD50 and ~40 minutes per UHD66. Gonna have to check my logs for Matrix Reloaded to see how long that one took. Quite probably 1 hour.

I have a much smaller collection and rip discs as I acquire them so it's quite doable for me. I create a script to rip a batch of discs continuously. Tray opens automatically and I switch discs. Problem is I don't always notice that the tray's open so that does slow things down.

I only use SSD drives, so it would be way more than $6000. Please do not be one of those people that mistakenly think that SSD drives have longevity concerns; that myth has been debunked ages ago.

I know that I would not have the patience to rip all of my discs, so it is never going to happen anyways.

[kyloren]

I'll throw my two cents in for people to pick apart!

I have a decent collection that's slowly growing and I have never purchased a digital movie, I only purchase physical media. The way I see it is I get the digital copy with my purchase -- which I redeem, now I can watch away from home digitally and at home physically. I'm not sure of the ages on this site, but I'm on the younger side (I think, I was born in the 90's.) For example, I've never bought any media on VHS or DVD before, it's all Blu-rays & 4Ks!

Storage hasn't become a problem yet, but I can see it being so years down the line -- guess I will tackle that when I get there.

The same goes with games, I've never purchased digitally, always physical. While I just put the disc in and it downloads digitally anyways, it gives me the option to play offline with just the disc if I ever need to. Xbox Live has gone down multiple times this year, sometimes for multiple hours -- I could play all the games I own offline because I have the disc, digital only buyers have to wait for the service or internet to be back up.

I'm not saying I'm prepped for doomsday, but every movie I purchase can be played physically or digitally -- I'm good with that.

FYI: Both sides have valid points! I enjoy threads like this because theres always a new person joining in on the discussion with new thoughts and opinions... sure it can be toxic -- but it's the internet.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by kyloren

I'll throw my two cents in for people to pick apart!

I have a decent collection that's slowly growing and I have never purchased a digital movie, I only purchase physical media. The way I see it is I get the digital copy with my purchase -- which I redeem, now I can watch away from home digitally and at home physically. I'm not sure of the ages on this site, but I'm on the younger side (I think, I was born in the 90's.) For example, I've never bought any media on VHS or DVD before, it's all Blu-rays & 4Ks!

Storage hasn't become a problem yet, but I can see it being so years down the line -- guess I will tackle that when I get there.

The same goes with games, I've never purchased digitally, always physical. While I just put the disc in and it downloads digitally anyways, it gives me the option to play offline with just the disc if I ever need to. Xbox Live has gone down multiple times this year, sometimes for multiple hours -- I could play all the games I own offline because I have the disc, digital only buyers have to wait for the service or internet to be back up.

I'm not saying I'm prepped for doomsday, but every movie I purchase can be played physically or digitally -- I'm good with that.

FYI: Both sides have valid points! I enjoy threads like this because theres always a new person joining in on the discussion with new thoughts and opinions... sure it can be toxic -- but it's the internet.

I have started to redeem some of the codes that are included with my discs. I have redeemed a whole 149 to date although I have not watched any of the digital copies. I redeemed them just to have access to them from wherever I might be, but, as I seldom travel, the need to actually use them has not yet happened.

[JPK]

Originally Posted by Vilya

You seem to think that in order to have a worthy "sound design" that you need a lot of audio channels, such as with ATMOS, and that is just not true. Excellent audio fidelity is as important with a mono track as it is with any of the other more immersive multi-channel tracks.

I have to bite at this too. Another mischaracterization and assumption.
You can easily see I have plenty of releases in mono or stereo and I have also upgraded many of my older movies purely based on an upgrade from lossy to lossless audio.

My point relates more to the latest 'rom com' or comedy that you might enjoy watching with your partner on a Saturday night. It isn't going to benefit a lot from a few extra kbps and 24 bit audio.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by JPK

I have to bite at this too. Another mischaracterization and assumption.
You can easily see I have plenty of releases in mono or stereo and I have also upgraded many of my movies purely based on an upgrade from lossy to lossless audio.

My point relates more to the latest 'rom com' or comedy that you might enjoy watching with your partner on a Saturday night. It isn't going to benefit a lot from a few extra kbps and 24 bit audio.

I said "seem" as I could not make that determination outright without expending more effort than I was willing. I did not look at your collection because it is late here and I am tired bordering upon incoherence.

Even if the audio quality of a streamed movie were identical to its disc counterpart, the video would still be lesser quality and I would insist upon buying the disc for that reason alone. I also require actual ownership of what I buy and no argument about price, convenience, or storage space will override that requirement.

Your thread has been merged in case you had not noticed; you have been assimilated.

[spider-neil]

I have my favorite movies on physical, 3D/4K. I no longer purchase or own blu ray/DVD. I have all my other movies on digital for convenience (getting up to change a disk) and storage space (which for me is very limited).

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by spider-neil

I have my favorite movies on physical, 3D/4K. I no longer purchase or own blu ray/DVD. I have all my other movies on digital for convenience (getting up to change a disk) and storage space (which for me is very limited).

I can understand that some people have storage space limitations, but complaining that it is too inconvenient to get off of one's arse to change a disc just makes me laugh. I have to get up anyway at some point to use the bathroom, refill my drink, get more snacks, and I can easily add a trip to the disc player to that arduous itinerary.

I own more than one disc player, so I could load a disc in each one and save myself from the terrible strain of getting up to change discs, but then I would have to change the input source on my TV/AVR requiring that I use my remote! The horror!

[spider-neil]

Originally Posted by Vilya

I can understand that some people have storage space limitations, but complaining that it is too inconvenient to get off of one's arse to change a disc just makes me laugh. I have to get up anyway at some point to use the bathroom, refill my drink, get more snacks, and I can easily add a trip to the disc player to that arduous itinerary.

I own more than one disc player, so I could load a disc in each one and save myself from the terrible strain of getting up to change discs, but then I would have to change the input source on my TV/AVR requiring that I use my remote! The horror!

It's much easier to select a movie if you have a menu rather than having to peruse your shelf. With regards to my favorite movies (for example, The Matrix) I want to see that in the highest quality possible so changing a disk is a small price to pay. I will definitely get my top 10 movies of all time in 4K. Maybe even my top 20.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by spider-neil

It's much easier to select a movie if you have a menu rather than having to peruse your shelf. With regards to my favorite movies (for example, The Matrix) I want to see that in the highest quality possible so changing a disk is a small price to pay. I will definitely get my top 10 movies of all time in 4K. Maybe even my top 20.

If we are talking about the initial starting of a movie instead of changing discs in the middle of a viewing session, then locating and loading a disc is still just as fast and just as easy. All of my movies are alphabetized by title within each format and I know exactly where to find any specific one of them. I can locate and load a disc as quickly, maybe even quicker, than I can navigate a streaming provider's menu system. Neither loading a disc nor navigating a streaming provider's menu requires any substantive effort. Take it from a lazy retired man; both are easy to do.

[spider-neil]

Originally Posted by Vilya

If we are talking about the initial starting of a movie and not changing discs in the middle of a viewing session, then locating and loading a disc is still just as fast and just as easy. All of my movies are alphabetized by title within each format and I know exactly where to find any specific one of them. I can locate and load a disc as quickly, maybe even quicker, than I can navigate a streaming provider's menu system. Neither loading a disc nor navigating a streaming provider's menu requires any substantive effort. Take it from a lazy retired man; both are easy to do.

My collection used to look great on my shelf but I have books that now take that space. So it's a combination of the space and convenience.
I also sold all my Blu rays to fund a Playstation Pro and 4K player. Moving forward I'm not buying Blu ray, just 4K, and 3D.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by kyloren

I'll throw my two cents in for people to pick apart!

I have a decent collection that's slowly growing and I have never purchased a digital movie, I only purchase physical media. The way I see it is I get the digital copy with my purchase -- which I redeem, now I can watch away from home digitally and at home physically. I'm not sure of the ages on this site, but I'm on the younger side (I think, I was born in the 90's.) For example, I've never bought any media on VHS or DVD before, it's all Blu-rays & 4Ks!

Storage hasn't become a problem yet, but I can see it being so years down the line -- guess I will tackle that when I get there.

The same goes with games, I've never purchased digitally, always physical. While I just put the disc in and it downloads digitally anyways, it gives me the option to play offline with just the disc if I ever need to. Xbox Live has gone down multiple times this year, sometimes for multiple hours -- I could play all the games I own offline because I have the disc, digital only buyers have to wait for the service or internet to be back up.

I'm not saying I'm prepped for doomsday, but every movie I purchase can be played physically or digitally -- I'm good with that.

FYI: Both sides have valid points! I enjoy threads like this because theres always a new person joining in on the discussion with new thoughts and opinions... sure it can be toxic -- but it's the internet.

The problem with that is there is no guarantee the back up you have on digital will remain the same copy. In this modern age of constant complaining and scared executives, it’s possible digital copies may have a scene snipped here and there to appease delicate souls. You may wake up one morning to find your film has been altered and there is nothing you can do about it. This is especially true of older film and tv material. If you are happy with that, and the fact digital HD is basically a stepping stone to subscription streaming, go for it. If you love and cherish films, own the disc version.

[spider-neil]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

The problem with that is there is no guarantee the back up you have on digital will remain the same copy. In this modern age of constant complaining and scared executives, it’s possible digital copies may have a scene snipped here and there to appease delicate souls. You may wake up one morning to find your film has been altered and there is nothing you can do about it. This is especially true of older film and tv material. If you are happy with that, and the fact digital HD is basically a stepping stone to subscription streaming, go for it. If you love and cherish films, own the disc version.

Itunes removed the IMAX aspect ratio on The Dark Knight. If you want the theatrical experience you have to get the physical copy.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Vilya

I can understand that some people have storage space limitations, but complaining that it is too inconvenient to get off of one's arse to change a disc just makes me laugh. I have to get up anyway at some point to use the bathroom, refill my drink, get more snacks, and I can easily add a trip to the disc player to that arduous itinerary.

I own more than one disc player, so I could load a disc in each one and save myself from the terrible strain of getting up to change discs, but then I would have to change the input source on my TV/AVR requiring that I use my remote! The horror!

In a few years' time I can totally see kids reacting with disdain to us old fuddy-duddies using remote controls while they control everything via their voice.

[Night*Wolf]

I came to this crossroad about 5 years ago, and to be honest there are pros and cons for digital & hard copy, it all depends on what your looking for. I wanted versatility on how I can watch my movies but for me the X factor was future proofing, so I decided to go strictly digital and every movie I own is purchased directly through itunes. I put movies in my wishlist and wait for them to go on sale, 80% of my library are movies that I purchased on sale from $4.99-$9.99, about 20% were full price at $19.99. I can never bring my self to buy a UHD disk for $35 when it will be on sale for $9.99 a year or 2 later. I honestly struggle to even buy digital at full price because I know it will go on sale.

I wanted a way to watch my movies on multiple devices, I can now watch anything in my collection on my iphone, ipad, laptop, & apple tv. But where I truly benefited from my decision was when apple announced free upgrades to 4K. I almost have about 200 4k movies now, I only payed for about 20...the rest were upgraded for free and I will continue to get upgrades. Thats a lot of money saved

Also all of my movies are stored in the cloud, I stream to watch them or I can download them locally on my device. A friend of mine had a collection of about 800 physical movies, there was a flood from a storm and most of them where destroyed, that cant happen in the cloud.

I don't think digital is better than hard copy, but its better for what I’m looking for, which is versatility and future proofing. I really miss having a nice steelbook hardcopy though, nothing like a shelf full of metal

[MechaGodzilla]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

In a few years' time I can totally see kids reacting with disdain to us old fuddy-duddies using remote controls while they control everything via their voice.

There's probably still going to be people who are mute though, so they'll need to keep remote controls around for that. Or maybe the TV will read sign language?