Disney Channel (read before posting)

[RandDawg]

Originally Posted by caliminius

Right, um, yeah, okay. Maybe instead of blaming Disney you should put the blame where it actually belongs, with the parents. If the parents were doing their job, it wouldn't matter what message Disney or any other media outlet was putting out.

And really the "princess" syndrome seems to more come from the media's obsession with showing all of the outrageous exploits of rich trash skanks like Paris Hilton, Nicole Ritchie and Lindsay Lohan.

The "media" is only obsessed with making money. If there wasn't a demand, they wouldn't be supplying it.

[EricJ]

Originally Posted by assydingo

I'm not an obsessed Disney fan at all but it often surprises me how many people are completely negative about it. I really just watch High School Musical and Hannah Montana. I've seen other shows and yes, they all have cheesy moments and most of them aren't really worth seeing.

So where does the hatred come from? Maybe...

1. Merchandising - Disney really milks they're cash-cows to the last drop. It's annoying but I don't see why it should cause much negativity.

No, but we see why they milk their cash-cows:
They're still resentful about losing Hilary "Lizzie McGuire" Duff (oh, c'mon, you remember!) to the mainstream machine, grooming Lindsey Lohan for Disney-owned stardom and losing her, and now keeping a stable-factory of future "stars" at all time just in case.
(And if tween audiences don't happen to like the Cheetah Girls, well, give Disney time, those ungrateful larva will LEARN to like them! )

2. Pop - Lately Disney shows are music-centric. The people either sing on the show or have musical careers. Personally I love pop and while not all Disney pop is good (Demi and Miley are best) you can always not listen to it.

Nor can you constantly promote it as the sole character/achievement role model, at the blindly preoccupied exclusion of all else.
Ask the Disney Channel whether young girls dream of being veterinarians, eco-scientists or pop-idols, and we know which answer Disney will manifesto, 24/7...Well, at least that'll make it easier to find that next Miley Cyrus, as the years go by. (Insert Hannah-Jugend joke here.)

As for what boys dream of, well, according to DC, tween boys are much more realistic and balanced towards their view of the adult world: They apparently dream of being X-treme skateboarders. And pop idols.
(Although lest Disney be accused of playing the gender-role card, they do grant that both genders are perfectly capable, empowered and suited to the career of Part-Time Teen Secret Agent.)

3. Fans - I'm sure some people might be negative about stuff purely because someone annoying they know likes it. I've done that myself. The reason I didn't like Scarface is probably because people quoted it to death before I even seen it.

4. Factory Mentality - Yes, we know, Disney: HSM got too expensive, getting the cast back for the too-expensive-for-cable movie finale was a nightmare, and now we're "supposed" to like the all-unknowns "Camp Rock" instead ahead of time just in case, six months before the old franchise clears out leaving nothing behind.
It still stinks.

5. Babies and Bathwaters - Disney abandoning (after first second-classing it to the wee hours) its entire sixty-year vault of programming because it doesn't pull as much viewership as Bubblegum-of-the-Moment, exiling all out onto Noah's-ark DVD sets, and keeping the cable channel solely to follow their one current corporate ambition.
Meanwhile, classic live-action and animated Disney movies have a home on cable....Namely, Starz, Ted Turner and TCM.

6. Anachronistic Cluelessness - The writers of DisneyTween sitcoms like Zack & Cody and Waverly Place know what kids want to see--After all, they know the wacky comedy shows they grew up with in the 70's and 80's...And from all indications, they apparently grew up with a healthy diet of "Saved by the Bell", "Facts of Life", and Steve Urkel. All the shows we spent every waking moment since the Reagan era trying to get RID of.
I never thought I'd have to explain to the next generation what a "canned sitcom laugh-track" was in my day, and turns out I don't have to: They already know.

(So: Any other mysteries we can clear up?)

[P@t_Mtl]

To the original OP,

you will quickly see that it's very popular on this board to hate what is considered bubble gum entertaiment. Hating George Lucas, Bill Gates, Disney...easy targets.

Most people will blame Disney for putting on shows that are popular and remove show like Duck Tales or Darkwing Duck. Disney is a business, they want too make money as much as FOX with the 100th season of Amerijunk Idol or CBS with Suvirvortrash. Yet they will love Sony making tons of cash with the PS3 and how they are destroying Xbox on sales and popularity. They will tell you that Disney as no morales yet will just love playing Grand Theft Auto 4 and won't find any problem that kids play a game where they can smash into people with cars and steal them.

You enjoy Disney? Good for you and continue watching it if you do. I used to love watching Lizzy McGuire when it was on, I don't care what everyone was thinking about it either.

[EricJ]

Originally Posted by P@t_Mtl

You enjoy Disney? Good for you and continue watching it if you do. I used to love watching Lizzy McGuire when it was on, I don't care what everyone was thinking about it either.

Historically, it was Lizzy McGuire that first sent Disney Channel spinning down the watery vortex:
The series needed a cheap animator for Lizzy's cartoon alter-ego, which is why the show was partly the brainchild of "Better Off Dead" director and Press Your Luck Whammy animator Savage Steve Holland.
(And for those trivia buffs who remember Savage's brief attempt at a career as the live-action writer/director/creator of "Beans Baxter" and "Encyclopedia Brown"...yes, they were just as bad.)

Disney, of course, being a bright and (self-)imitative culture, naturally seized upon the zeitgeist to create a whole stable of shows that LOOKED like the Savage-man had directed them, with laughtracks, "wacky" scenery-chewing and cartoon-boinks aplenty...While Disney's acquisition of ABC gave them access to all those Friday-night sitcoms like "Boy Meets World" and "Sister, Sister" that already looked like Disney had made them.

As for how the Saved by the Bell Channel first became the Orlando Girl-Band Channel, that was also Lizzy's fault...When Lizzy decided she wanted to become a pop-singing sensation just in time for her first theatrical-spinoff Movie, or, more accurately, Hillary Duff did. Whether Disney wanted it or not.
(Qv. earlier "Trying to get Hillary back" cite.)

In all historical fairness, however, don't blame "Phil of the Future" or "Even Stevens" completely on Lizzie or the Savage-Man....Like all syndie cable, those came from an outside source, with less demanding taste and professionalism--
Yes: Blame Canada. (They're not a real cable-TV-producing country anyway.)

[krazeyeyez]

well..
1.) disney today is not the same disney we had, it is in fact disneyMTV

2.) my guess is the princess thing you refer to, comes from all pop tv including MTV vh1 E etc.... and these loose ditzy girls that are becoming role models for america's young girls

3.) I don't hate disney at all, just like any other company they have a right to make money, but i do think they should make an attempt to get back to their roots in some aspects.

4.) i miss gummi bears, bouncing here and there and everywhere

[P@t_Mtl]

Originally Posted by EricJ

In all historical fairness, however, don't blame "Phil of the Future" or "Even Stevens" completely on Lizzie or the Savage-Man....Like all syndie cable, those came from an outside source, with less demanding taste and professionalism--
Yes: Blame Canada. (They're not a real cable-TV-producing country anyway.)

Unfortunatly you are quite wrong Canada produce many good TV shows but they will never be watched by the audiences on the USA because they are just not ready for shows of that caliber down there Actualy here in Quebec we had a few sitcoms (in French) that are far superior then Friends or anything else produce in the USA in the last 20 years ok with the excemption of How I Meet Your Mother

[johnno1986]

Originally Posted by P@t_Mtl

To the original OP,

you will quickly see that it's very popular on this board to hate what is considered bubble gum entertaiment. Hating George Lucas, Bill Gates, Disney...easy targets.

Most people will blame Disney for putting on shows that are popular and remove show like Duck Tales or Darkwing Duck. Disney is a business, they want too make money as much as FOX with the 100th season of Amerijunk Idol or CBS with Suvirvortrash. Yet they will love Sony making tons of cash with the PS3 and how they are destroying Xbox on sales and popularity. They will tell you that Disney as no morales yet will just love playing Grand Theft Auto 4 and won't find any problem that kids play a game where they can smash into people with cars and steal them.

You enjoy Disney? Good for you and continue watching it if you do. I used to love watching Lizzy McGuire when it was on, I don't care what everyone was thinking about it either.

Very well put. I agree 100%. I too am a fan of most Disney Channel shows.

[alpinewiz]

For those of you that yearn for the shows like Duck Tails and Darkwing Duck I recommend checking out Phineas and Ferb. I have 2 kids and this is the one cartoon that all 3 of us will sit down and watch. It is the best "short" cartoon to come out of Disney in a long time and I am hoping there is more to come.

Oh yeah one last thing...Perry for President!

[Ferris]

Originally Posted by caliminius

Right, um, yeah, okay. Maybe instead of blaming Disney you should put the blame where it actually belongs, with the parents. If the parents were doing their job, it wouldn't matter what message Disney or any other media outlet was putting out.

And really the "princess" syndrome seems to more come from the media's obsession with showing all of the outrageous exploits of rich trash skanks like Paris Hilton, Nicole Ritchie and Lindsay Lohan.

After reading one of the responses, I was going to say something very similar to what caliminius said above. Too often people want to blame others for things when they need to be a bit more introspective.

Originally Posted by P@t_Mtl

To the original OP,

you will quickly see that it's very popular on this board to hate what is considered bubble gum entertaiment. Hating George Lucas, Bill Gates, Disney...easy targets.

Most people will blame Disney for putting on shows that are popular and remove show like Duck Tales or Darkwing Duck.

Darkwing Duck, Duck Tales, etc... those were the fads of the day when we were growing up. Expect today's teens to say something like "I wish Disney would get back to the way they were with HSM and Hannah Montana" in 20 years.

Originally Posted by krazeyeyez

well..
1.) disney today is not the same disney we had, it is in fact disneyMTV

2.) my guess is the princess thing you refer to, comes from all pop tv including MTV vh1 E etc.... and these loose ditzy girls that are becoming role models for america's young girls

You are so right. Disney is catering to "the masses" just like MTV did. MTV started as music videos (a la "Music Television), and now they show a total of maybe 2 hours of videos through the entirety of the day and night.

[Pirate King]

Sigh........ I guess some of us need an Adult Disney channel.... like it was 20 years ago. They played all the older Disney movies, and the mini series like Texas John Slaughter, or, Swamp Fox... or Andy Burnett. And hours and hours of the old TV shows with Walt himself as host. And the channel had NO commercials.

It seems that they are trying to reach the teenage audience today. But still, perhaps one day we oldtimers can have a Classic Disney Chanel.

As far as their current programing.. I have no comment.. I rarely watch the Disney channel anymore.

[lobo81865]

Originally Posted by STARSCREAM

Duck Tales was awesome.

No kidding. I have all the DVD season releases as well as Treasure of the Lost Lamp. I have the Gummi Bears, and Talespin too.

[lobo81865]

Originally Posted by Pirate King

Sigh........ I guess some of us need an Adult Disney channel.... like it was 20 years ago. They played all the older Disney movies, and the mini series like Texas John Slaughter, or, Swamp Fox... or Andy Burnett. And hours and hours of the old TV shows with Walt himself as host. And the channel had NO commercials.

It seems that they are trying to reach the teenage audience today. But still, perhaps one day we oldtimers can have a Classic Disney Chanel.

As far as their current programing.. I have no comment.. I rarely watch the Disney channel anymore.

Man, I would kill to see all those old shows again. I've got a pretty good Disney DVD collection though, so I can watch them whenever the mood strikes. I had to join their DVD club to get some of the older titles like "Ride A Wild Pony, So Dear to My Heart, A Tiger Walks, the Zorro series, The Legend of Lobo", etc.

[fsavoie]

Originally Posted by P@t_Mtl

Unfortunatly you are quite wrong Canada produce many good TV shows but they will never be watched by the audiences on the USA because they are just not ready for shows of that caliber down there Actualy here in Quebec we had a few sitcoms (in French) that are far superior then Friends or anything else produce in the USA in the last 20 years ok with the excemption of How I Meet Your Mother

I agree with you. Quebec have a lots of great shows even greater when you compare the public size.

But I disagree with Friends! THE best sitcom ever!

[Chordata]

Answer: some people are grumpy bastards who can't conceive of other people's happiness, and they hate things just to hate them.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by O_V_N

Answer: some people are grumpy bastards who can't conceive of other people's happiness, and they hate things just to hate them.

Counter-Answer: And some people have IQs lower than that of maggots, and like a maggot, they will digest and infest every piece of excrement that comes sliding out of the Disney tweener corporate poop chute.

[Chordata]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

Counter-Answer: And some people have IQs lower than that of maggots, and like a maggot, they will digest and infest every piece of excrement that comes sliding out of the Disney tweener corporate poop chute.

Considering that a great deal of the Disney Channel is targetted to children, I think that's a bit harsh and, obviously, ridiculous.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by O_V_N

Considering that a great deal of the Disney Channel is targetted to children, I think that's a bit harsh and, obviously, ridiculous.

Teenagers have supposed cognitive abilities. I know studies have shown that the human brain doesn't stop growing until age 19 or so, and the growth of the brain during adolesence causes some extreme behavior and severe swings in mood and comprehension, but despite this, the US Supreme Court ruled that society can still charge teenagers as adults when they commit terrible crimes. Obviously, digging a poorly written cable crapfest TV show isn't a "crime", let alone a "terrbile crime", I only present the anlalogy to suggest that teenagers shouldn't be excused from purchasing crap because they are teenagers and don't know any better. In my experience, teenagers know exactly what they are doing for the most part, and they like what they like and no force on earth will convince them otherwise. Teenagers who try and turn the tables around and lament how wrong it is that adults think poorly of their current boy band or fantasy kid show is like a five year old lamenting how their parents don't like it when they eat dirt. It's dirt. The world is wide and open and there are so many beautiful things to experience - -why waste your time on such patent garbage? It's tragic, really.

[P@t_Mtl]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

Counter-Answer: And some people have IQs lower than that of maggots, and like a maggot, they will digest and infest every piece of excrement that comes sliding out of the Disney tweener corporate poop chute.

Counter-counter answer :And some people like to think they are superior to everyone else (and usualy are not) and will look for any excuses to bring down others. A person who does not think of oneself as superior is able to appreciate that others are different without the need of insulting them.

[uziel5000]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

Teenagers have supposed cognitive abilities. I know studies have shown that the human brain doesn't stop growing until age 19 or so, and the growth of the brain during adolesence causes some extreme behavior and severe swings in mood and comprehension, but despite this, the US Supreme Court ruled that society can still charge teenagers as adults when they commit terrible crimes. Obviously, digging a poorly written cable crapfest TV show isn't a "crime", let alone a "terrbile crime", I only present the anlalogy to suggest that teenagers shouldn't be excused from purchasing crap because they are teenagers and don't know any better. In my experience, teenagers know exactly what they are doing for the most part, and they like what they like and no force on earth will convince them otherwise. Teenagers who try and turn the tables around and lament how wrong it is that adults think poorly of their current boy band or fantasy kid show is like a five year old lamenting how their parents don't like it when they eat dirt. It's dirt. The world is wide and open and there are so many beautiful things to experience - -why waste your time on such patent garbage? It's tragic, really.

This is a good point but I have to disagree that teens watch because they like it/don't like something. They do have cognitive abilities(they wouldn't be human if they didn't) but the problem, and Disney's(and whoever gets them to buy/enjoy their products) advantage is teenagers are suceptible to the mob mentality. Disney, MTV and the like know, that more than buying something that they like, they'll buy something that all their friends like. It is far and few the teenager who doesn't respond to peer pressure of some kind. And while the extremes are drugs, drinking and smoking, it can be as simple as a song or an artist. "Everyone I know listens to it so I will too." MTV has fed on that for its entire existence and the Disney Channel, who has gone seriously downhill I agree, is just cashing in on that trend as well. They milk something until the next best thing comes up or they simply create it.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by P@t_Mtl

Counter-counter answer :And some people like to think they are superior to everyone else (and usualy are not) and will look for any excuses to bring down others. A person who does not think of oneself as superior is able to appreciate that others are different without the need of insulting them.

When someone insults others as "grumpy bastards", they should expect the inevitable response. Most people wear kid gloves, a few of us take the gloves off and tell the truth.