Monty Python’s Flying Circus (Network)

[ElectricPeterTork]

Originally Posted by openviews

In line with other pre-orders from Network hopefully this will be delivered on Friday.

Yeah, we are getting close.

Wonder how long the US versions will take.

[sa5150]

I ordered vol 1 standard case from amazon uk .(can't beat that price after they remove vat just under $20 . About $60 when all 3 are released . Would it be better to wait for a complete standard set or will it just be 3 separate season sets ? I don't see season 2 yet for pre-order . Which would I be getting and does it even matter 50i or 60i ?

[GiorgioV]

Will the complete deluxe set feature extras that won't be on the individual Amaray releases?

[Network23]

Deepdiscount.com has the set going for $118.99 preorder, which makes it exactly $2 more what i paid to Network to get exclusive an their discount code. I take solace that im not paying sales tax then at this point.

[Indiana Jones]

Originally Posted by sa5150

I ordered vol 1 standard case from amazon uk .(can't beat that price after they remove vat just under $20 . About $60 when all 3 are released . Would it be better to wait for a complete standard set or will it just be 3 separate season sets ? I don't see season 2 yet for pre-order . Which would I be getting and does it even matter 50i or 60i ?

Well if you wait for a complete set it will cost more as it will includes Series 1-4 and it sounds like you only want 1-3? and depending on your hardware whether they are 50i or 60i could make the difference between being able to watch them and getting no picture at all.

Originally Posted by GiorgioV

Will the complete deluxe set feature extras that won't be on the individual Amaray releases?

Seems the only difference is the packaging and book, they should include the same discs but nothing has been confirmed.

[The Mole]

I find the announced extras somewhat disappointing. We get some uncensored footage, some deleted scenes, quite a bit of extended raw footage, a short movie, an interview, a restauration-featurette and some behind-the-scenes footage. No retrospecive documentary? No new interviews with the Pythons and other cast and crew? And what about the extras that were included in some of the Sony releases of the show?

[Nitroboy]

Originally Posted by nman971

Sorry if this might have been answered earlier on in the thread, but was the 50i to 60i conversion done with motion interpolation, frame blending, or frame doubling?

It hasn't been clarified AFAIK.

[oddbox83]

Originally Posted by Nitroboy

It hasn't been clarified AFAIK.

It sort of has, by Paul V. upthread.

Originally Posted by Paul Vanezis

I have viewed the check discs of these and you will be hard pressed to tell the difference between the 50i and 60i versions. You would have to play them side by side to see a difference and anyone in the US, Canada or Japan used to the old conversions will see a revelatory upscale in quality.

So we can rule out the mankier alternatives of blending and doubling. Probably something similar to this. http://www.broadcastrental.com/proje...rds-converter/

[sa5150]

[QUOTE=Indiana Jones;16990287]Well if you wait for a complete set it will cost more as it will includes Series 1-4 and it sounds like you only want 1-3? and depending on your hardware whether they are 50i or 60i could make the difference between being able to watch them and getting no picture at all.


That was my mistake . It is 4 seasons , Not sure why I thought it was only 3 .

So about $80 once complete . Saves on Networks shipping charges .

It says (region free) on Amazon uk , Either way I have a region free player so whatever I get should be no problem .

[Indiana Jones]

[quote=sa5150;16991176]

Originally Posted by Indiana Jones

Well if you wait for a complete set it will cost more as it will includes Series 1-4 and it sounds like you only want 1-3? and depending on your hardware whether they are 50i or 60i could make the difference between being able to watch them and getting no picture at all.


That was my mistake . It is 4 seasons , Not sure why I thought it was only 3 .

So about $80 once complete . Saves on Networks shipping charges .

It says (region free) on Amazon uk , Either way I have a region free player so whatever I get should be no problem .

Being region free doesn’t have any relation to the picture format, if your hardware can’t handle 50hz then you won’t get a picture so you might want to confirm that before placing an order.

[Paul Vanezis]

Originally Posted by oddbox83

It sort of has, by Paul V. upthread.



So we can rule out the mankier alternatives of blending and doubling. Probably something similar to this. http://www.broadcastrental.com/proje...rds-converter/

Correct.

We used the Snell & Wilcox software version of their hardware solution. It's the industry standard converter, the best there is.

However, we upscaled using different kit. We looked at both software and hardware upscaling and did tests using two different hardware scalers. In the end, we ended up using the identical upscaling and conversion solution we use for Doctor Who.

When I went back to source, I also captured entirely from PAL sources using the BBC's Transform Decoder. This has never been done before for Monty Python. In total, only two episodes are entirely new transfers from original Quad tapes. These are Archaeology Today and Deja Vu, the original TX masters. I also transferred both copies of the Python's Quad dubs of Spam. The BBC's tape is badly scratched. Unfortunately, it must have been damaged prior to 1979, because both the Python's masters have the scratch copied in.

When I went through the Python's quad tapes, I also identified other useful recordings. The two most important (apart from the two original TX tapes) were Salad Days and How to Recognise Different Parts of the Body. Salad Days features the intact 'Biggles Dictates a Letter' sketch. The BBC's TX master was damaged in the 1980's and the tape torn in two. About 3 seconds was lost from the tape, but the Python's quad (a dub of the same tape prior to the damage) was intact. The tape I found of 'How to Recognise Different Parts of the Body' turned out to be the BBC Enterprises copy of the original TX master. It was made about three months prior to the 1971 repeats. The repeat version of this episode was cut; the pre-title scene was overdubbed with music. Subsequently, the original TX master was wiped. Although I had access to an off-air NTSC VHS recording, a broadcast copy was much more desirable, so I elected to use the pictures from the repeat version (which were the same generation as the repeat, but unchanged) and the sound from the Ents master, which is as the original show.

I also checked other master tapes in the Python's archive, including Book at Bedtime, How Not to be Seen, It's a Living etc... in the hope that I might find longer copies from original tapes or second best, NTSC masters. I only found one original NTSC tape, Face the Press.

For the rest of the episodes, I used the BBC's D3 copies of the original tapes. The BBC no longer officially archive these tapes, because they have been transferred to new component masters. However, I wanted to make uncompressed capture files via the Transform Decoder, hence going back to the D3's.

I did find some discrepancies. The BBC's master of Full Frontal Nudity was a salvage copy made back in the late 70's. It was really in a pretty poor state. However, in the Python's archive, I found the BBC Enterprises master, made in March 1970, but there was a D3 copy of this tape in the BBC Archive made in 1993. As it was a much better transfer and the same physical generation as the salvage copy, I used that.

Paul

[Laservampire]

Glad to know that the D3’s look good enough through the Transform Decoder that going back to the quads for everything was unnecessary. There was worry years ago that the BBC’s D3 copies had additional moire noise on highly patterned stuff like checkered shirts and such, a lot of the early BBC DVD releases suffered from this.

I hope something could be done with the Undertaker Sketch!

[sa5150]

[quote=Indiana Jones;16991677]

Originally Posted by sa5150

Being region free doesn’t have any relation to the picture format, if your hardware can’t handle 50hz then you won’t get a picture so you might want to confirm that before placing an order.

I don't know how to tell . My one player is a Modified Sony BDP-S3700 plays all regions and my second player is the Sony x800m2 uhd (Not sure if this will play it) . I don't have much time to cancel the order from amazon uk . It probably will be shipping any day now . What would you do ?

[Paul Vanezis]

Originally Posted by Laservampire

Glad to know that the D3’s look good enough through the Transform Decoder that going back to the quads for everything was unnecessary. There was worry years ago that the BBC’s D3 copies had additional moire noise on highly patterned stuff like checkered shirts and such, a lot of the early BBC DVD releases suffered from this.


I hope something could be done with the Undertaker Sketch!

Well, although the Transform Decoder is a magical thing, it can't completely remove every PAL artefact seamlessly. But it does a better job of any converter. Having the material in true component video allows higher quality upscale, better noise reduction that is complimentary to the material and the ability to make minor colour correction changes without damaging the integrity of the image luminance. I haven't spotted any moire issues so far. The other advantage of going back to the Quads/D3's was the ability to make burst to chroma phase corrections that had previously been burnt in. This means that for the first time we have corrected phase errors that were part of the original tapes and that results in correct colour saturation for the first time. Another advantage is the ability to correct for camera registration errors. The downside is that the cleaner sharper pictures reveal some of the PAL artefacts and other artefacts that can't be removed, that were previously hidden in noise. You're just going to have to live with those!

Paul

[Jay G.]

Originally Posted by sa5150

I don't know how to tell . My one player is a Modified Sony BDP-S3700 plays all regions and my second player is the Sony x800m2 uhd (Not sure if this will play it) . I don't have much time to cancel the order from amazon uk . It probably will be shipping any day now . What would you do ?

This site sells region-free versions of those players and cites them both as having "PAL to NTSC conversion," which should really be 50i to 60i conversion of any resolution.

https://www.220-electronics.com/sony...-built-in.html
https://www.220-electronics.com/sony...ti-region.html

So you're probably fine. That said, these players are going to be converting the 50i to 60i anyway, but with hardware not as good as for the professional conversion Network is doing. In order to enjoy 50i native, you have to make sure your TV supports 50i input, which is very rare in the US.


Personally, while the idea of getting the "native" 50i format initially appealed, I realized that even if my current personal setup supported it, I may have issues later on when going to new hardware, and I'd be less likely to be able to loan out the discs, and if I ever opted to sell them they'd be a difficult sell and likely lower in value, unless I shipped them back to Europe, so more shipping costs. So the potential headaches lead me to pick the 60i version.

[DwWho]

Originally Posted by Paul Vanezis

Well, although the Transform Decoder is a magical thing, it can't completely remove every PAL artefact seamlessly. But it does a better job of any converter. Having the material in true component video allows higher quality upscale, better noise reduction that is complimentary to the material and the ability to make minor colour correction changes without damaging the integrity of the image luminance. I haven't spotted any moire issues so far. The other advantage of going back to the Quads/D3's was the ability to make burst to chroma phase corrections that had previously been burnt in. This means that for the first time we have corrected phase errors that were part of the original tapes and that results in correct colour saturation for the first time. Another advantage is the ability to correct for camera registration errors. The downside is that the cleaner sharper pictures reveal some of the PAL artefacts and other artefacts that can't be removed, that were previously hidden in noise. You're just going to have to live with those!

Paul

Amazing.
You went through so much trouble to give this set its much needed TLC... You're our hero! ♥

Thank you so much, Paul, for all your hardwork. You and your team have achieved something incredible and, by all means, almost impossible. I am very grateful, I'm sure many people are very grateful too.

You brought back a spark of happiness for us all and, who knows, perhaps preserved it for many generations to come. Thank you, sir! 😊

[Todd Fredericks]

[quote=Jay G.;16993449]

Originally Posted by sa5150

This site sells region-free versions of those players and cites them both as having "PAL to NTSC conversion," which should really be 50i to 60i conversion of any resolution.

https://www.220-electronics.com/sony...-built-in.html
https://www.220-electronics.com/sony...ti-region.html

So you're probably fine. That said, these players are going to be converting the 50i to 60i anyway, but with hardware not as good as for the professional conversion Network is doing. In order to enjoy 50i native, you have to make sure your TV supports 50i input, which is very rare in the US.


Personally, while the idea of getting the "native" 50i format initially appealed, I realized that even if my current personal setup supported it, I may have issues later on when going to new hardware, and I'd be less likely to be able to loan out the discs, and if I ever opted to sell them they'd be a difficult sell and likely lower in value, unless I shipped them back to Europe, so more shipping costs. So the potential headaches lead me to pick the 60i version.

Is anyone aware of a list of current U.S. televisions that can support 50i? My Panasonic plasma can but I’m concerned I will have a challenge finding something when it eventually needs replacing.

[sa5150]

[quote=Jay G.;16993449]

Originally Posted by sa5150

This site sells region-free versions of those players and cites them both as having "PAL to NTSC conversion," which should really be 50i to 60i conversion of any resolution.

https://www.220-electronics.com/sony...-built-in.html
https://www.220-electronics.com/sony...ti-region.html

So you're probably fine. That said, these players are going to be converting the 50i to 60i anyway, but with hardware not as good as for the professional conversion Network is doing. In order to enjoy 50i native, you have to make sure your TV supports 50i input, which is very rare in the US.


Personally, while the idea of getting the "native" 50i format initially appealed, I realized that even if my current personal setup supported it, I may have issues later on when going to new hardware, and I'd be less likely to be able to loan out the discs, and if I ever opted to sell them they'd be a difficult sell and likely lower in value, unless I shipped them back to Europe, so more shipping costs. So the potential headaches lead me to pick the 60i version.

Thanks for that info . My only concern would be it playing correctly .

I'm not following how this is different from any other region free bluray from over seas ? It should play back in any USA player if it's region free , no ? What Network is doing with offering 50i and 60i is quite unique I'd say .

Will there be a noticeable difference in playback quality ?

I guess I can ask for a refund if it does not work out well .

[Vanguard]

[quote=sa5150;16994801]

Originally Posted by Jay G.

Thanks for that info . My only concern would be it playing correctly .

I'm not following how this is different from any other region free bluray from over seas ? It should play back in any USA player if it's region free , no ? What Network is doing with offering 50i and 60i is quite unique I'd say .

Will there be a noticeable difference in playback quality ?

I guess I can ask for a refund if it does not work out well .

The discs are region free and will play on any player. But playback of 50i content is completely hardware related.
While the x800M2 will playback 50i content (I have the player myself and tested 50i content), the TV must be able to properly display it. I have a Vizio P55-F1, and while it displayed a 50i image, it was god awful to watch. Janky and stuttering as all get out. Unwatchable for anyone.
Playing the exact same content on a modified region free player that converts 50i to 60p displayed the content far better. This is still software/ on the fly conversion. Network has done very high quality conversion in house, so it will be far and away better than what any modified player could.

As stated before by Paul V, you would have to view the original 50i and 60i converted content side by side to notice any difference, if your eyes could even perceive the difference.

[Indiana Jones]

Originally Posted by Jay G.

Thanks for that info . My only concern would be it playing correctly .

I'm not following how this is different from any other region free bluray from over seas ? It should play back in any USA player if it's region free , no ? What Network is doing with offering 50i and 60i is quite unique I'd say .

Will there be a noticeable difference in playback quality ?

I guess I can ask for a refund if it does not work out well .

Many studios put out releases without region coding so the same discs can be used in multiple territories and in a lot of instances they will be encoded as 1080p/24 so will work on hardware worldwide however localised content from Europe (ie Doctor Who releases in the U.K.) will often be 1080i/50 which is not something US hardware natively supports a lot of the time and depending on your hardware it can cause major playback issues.