Will the Superhero Bubble Burst?

[ArrestedDevelopment]

Originally Posted by levcore

He's right, a lot of those cg fight scenes in Black Panther lacked real gravity.

[Blu-21]

So many credible and respected directors in the industry call Marvel for what they really are.

[daniels]

It will for sure, someday. But I think studios are already aware of that and try to make a change to genre. If superhero movies keep trying to meet the demand of changes, it will extend its life longer.

[levcore]

Originally Posted by Blu-21

So many credible and respected directors in the industry call Marvel for what they really are.

A film studio?

[Gacivory]

Originally Posted by CyberpunkCentral

Director Terry Gilliam Thinks Marvel Movies Are Repetitive and Lack Real Gravity, Hated Black Panther

https://comicbook.com/marvel/2019/12...rvel-comments/

Can someone explain to me the part where he says Black Kids looking up to Black Panther is bad?

[snipemonkey]

Originally Posted by Gacivory

Can someone explain to me the part where he says Black Kids looking up to Black Panther is bad?

The director then went all-in on Ryan Coogler's Black Panther, calling it "utter bullshit" for giving young fans a false sense of belief, as he puts it. “I hated Black Panther. It makes me crazy. It gives young black kids the idea that this is something to believe in. Bullshit. It’s utter bullshit."

Gilliam says he doubts the people who made the movie — Ryan Coogler, Nate Moore, and company — bothered to visit Africa in preparation for the film. "I think the people who made it have never been to Africa. They went and got some stylist for some African pattern fabrics and things. But I just I hated that movie, partly because the media were going on about the importance of bullshit.”

His problem seems to be with the media's (over)reaction to the film. As I agree with him on all points, I'll paraphrase:

It's the attempt to proffer canned goods as caviar and to sell the narrative that Black Panther has any kind of "importance" as some kind of watershed in African-American representation on film that rankles. The rest of the Marvel kiddie shows can be dismissed because they're obviously not about anything. But too much ink has been splashed around about how Black Panther is something indefinably more important simply because it's peopled with ethnic characters, as if that automatically elevated its bullsh*t to a higher level. No, it's still just the same old meaningless popcorn bullsh*t, just with black actors this time. It's annoying because if this is what constitutes progress in filmic representation we are in a sad place indeed, yet that's precisely what we're being sold.

[InuYashaCrusade]

Originally Posted by Blu-21

So many credible and respected directors in the industry call Marvel for what they really are.

Good thing their opinions don't make a difference, the MCU will keep chugging along.

[AaronJ]

It seems to me as if there are way too many people who claim to hate these movies who spend a great deal of time both watching them and then commenting on them.

I mean, yes: If you're getting paid to do so by the NYT or something, then you don't have much of a choice, other than a change in careers. But otherwise why not just spend your time watching stuff you are likely to appreciate in the first place?

I never get that.

[mwynn]

Originally Posted by AaronJ

It seems to me as if there are way too many people who claim to hate these movies who spend a great deal of time both watching them and then commenting on them.

I mean, yes: If you're getting paid to do so by the NYT or something, then you don't have much of a choice, other than a change in careers. But otherwise why not just spend your time watching stuff you are likely to appreciate in the first place?

I never get that.

Some people have a need to correct people on things they do not enjoy. It is no different than people looking down on people who play table games or read comics. Any place someone is enjoying something there is going to be someone disliking them for doing it.

[snipemonkey]

Originally Posted by AaronJ

It seems to me as if there are way too many people who claim to hate these movies who spend a great deal of time both watching them and then commenting on them.

I mean, yes: If you're getting paid to do so by the NYT or something, then you don't have much of a choice, other than a change in careers. But otherwise why not just spend your time watching stuff you are likely to appreciate in the first place?

I never get that.

This assumes that you're going to know definitively before you ever watch a thing that you are going to "appreciate" that thing. How can you know this? And if you end up not enjoying something do you make a resolution to never discuss that thing afterward? Why?

I don't hate these movies but I recognize that they have all sorts of problems. Some of my favorite films in the world are subject to some of my harshest criticism. Take Apocalypse Now, for instance. That is a great, great movie -- one of the greatest ever made, in my opinion -- but it's far from perfect. It has very sizable flaws but it doesn't diminish the film a whit to talk about them. To me that's what being a movie fan is all about!

And so what if you do "hate" a particular movie? You might have very good reasons for doing so and those reasons are certainly just as valid as someone else's reasons for loving the same movie. You don't have to agree but you definitely shouldn't be threatened by contrary viewpoints! Let's argue! Let's discuss! I don't want to hear my own feelings parroted back at me -- I want to hear from folks who had a totally different experience and I want to know why!

There's nothing more boring or pointless than a love-bombing circle-jerk.

Originally Posted by mwynn

Some people have a need to correct people on things they do not enjoy. It is no different than people looking down on people who play table games or read comics. Any place someone is enjoying something there is going to be someone disliking them for doing it.

Is that what's actually going on or is that just your interpretation? I see way too much over-sensitivity on these boards from posters who cannot or will not countenance other opinions.

[AaronJ]

Originally Posted by mwynn

Some people have a need to correct people on things they do not enjoy. It is no different than people looking down on people who play table games or read comics. Any place someone is enjoying something there is going to be someone disliking them for doing it.

Apparently.

I guess when you get to my age the actual value of time begins to set in. Spending loads of time on something you're almost guaranteed to not enjoy just seems like a humongous waste. That's sort of how I feel about animated movies, for the most part. I'm sure some of them are very good and very well-made. I mean, I LOVED Frozen and Frozen II, for example. But in general I can look at something and know whether it will be likely to appeal to *me* or not.

[mwynn]

Originally Posted by snipemonkey

Is that what's actually going on or is that just your interpretation? I see way too much over-sensitivity on these boards from posters who cannot or will not countenance other opinions.

There is a difference between having a counter opinion, and digging your heels or claws in and attacking people for enjoying things. I will leave it at that.

[AaronJ]

Originally Posted by snipemonkey

This assumes that you're going to know definitively before you ever watch a thing that you are going to "appreciate" that thing. How can you know this? And if you end up not enjoying something do you make a resolution to never discuss that thing afterward? Why?

I don't hate these movies but I recognize that they have all sorts of problems. Some of my favorite films in the world are subject to some of my harshest criticism. Take Apocalypse Now, for instance. That is a great, great movie -- one of the greatest ever made, in my opinion -- but it's far from perfect. It has very sizable flaws but it doesn't diminish the film a whit to talk about them. To me that's what being a movie fan is all about!

And so what if you do "hate" a particular movie? You might have very good reasons for doing so and those reasons are certainly just as valid as someone else's reasons for loving the same movie. You don't have to agree but you definitely shouldn't be threatened by contrary viewpoints! Let's argue! Let's discuss! I don't want to hear my own feelings parroted back at me -- I want to hear from folks who had a totally different experience and I want to know why!

There's nothing more boring or pointless than a love-bombing circle-jerk.

I agree that real discussion is the goal. I would hope (though I doubt that it's the case) that it's the goal for anyone involved in something like this.

However, how much could you have really believed that you were going to enjoy Black Panther, for instance, when you refer to the rest of the MCU as "Marvel kiddie shows" and say that they can be "dismissed because they're obviously not about anything?" That doesn't sound like a recipe for success. It actually sounds like a recipe for unhappiness from the get-go.

That's the part I don't understand.

[Monterey Jack]

Originally Posted by CyberpunkCentral

Director Terry Gilliam Thinks Marvel Movies Are Repetitive and Lack Real Gravity, Hated Black Panther

https://comicbook.com/marvel/2019/12...rvel-comments/

Considering Gilliam hasn't made a watchable movie since 1995, that's rich.

[CyberpunkCentral]

Originally Posted by Monterey Jack

Considering Gilliam hasn't made a watchable movie since 1995, that's rich.

Not a fan of Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas?

[sephiroth61787]

Originally Posted by fighthefutureofhd

True points. However, a lot of those I would never put in the superhero genre. The Lone Ranger, Time Cop, Barbarella, American Splendor, Inspector Gadget, and Power Rangers to name a few. That list has a lot of suspect entries. Some of which aren't even based on comic books.

Power Rangers is most definitely a superhero movie. It doesn't have to be based on a comic book. In this case, they're based on TV Japanese superheroes.

Onto the topic at large, the "superhero bubble" won't burst. They've been a large part of popular culture since their inception. If anything, you might see less B and C level characters get their own movies. The A-List heroes? You'll see movies about them for decades to come.

I like Terry Gilliam, but it's incorrect to say you can't learn something or be moved by these films. People will identify with a character in a myriad of ways. It doesn't matter if their powered or not. What makes them relatable is the struggles they endure. Viewers will never encounter a homicidal madman with a glove that can change reality. However, they probably can relate to the struggle of trying everything in their power to stop something awful from happening.

We all have different viewpoints on how we view creative works. What makes it valid for some people is not going to validate it to others. All we can do is try to politely convey what we see and what we feel.

[snipemonkey]

Originally Posted by AaronJ

I agree that real discussion is the goal. I would hope (though I doubt that it's the case) that it's the goal for anyone involved in something like this.

However, how much could you have really believed that you were going to enjoy Black Panther, for instance, when you refer to the rest of the MCU as "Marvel kiddie shows" and say that they can be "dismissed because they're obviously not about anything?" That doesn't sound like a recipe for success. It actually sounds like a recipe for unhappiness from the get-go.

That's the part I don't understand.

Well, that depends on what your expectation is from the get-go. I don't go to see a Marvel (or Star Wars, Star Trek, etc, etc) film expecting to find great cinema. They're a specific type of disposable entertainment aimed at a grade-school level and they perform their job admirably and, even in some cases, with inspiration. And, no, that's not a backhanded compliment. I believe there's a place for pure Saturday matinee type popcorn entertainment and these movies fit the bill. Some are better than others and I may not care at all for many (Endgame, I'm looking at you) but I won't deride them simply because they're pablum.

Having said that, I don't delude myself that they are anything more than that. Which is fine. Not everything can or should be Ingmar Bergman or War and Peace. They're kiddie movies. And when I say they're not "about anything" I mean that literally: They are products extruded to serve a specific purpose -- to propagate the continued consumption of yet further product along the same lines. They exist to entertain in the moment and keep audiences coming back for more of the same. Knowing this doesn't lessen my enjoyment of the movie/sausage if it is skillfully made. A clown has no purpose other than to invoke laughter but if he is good at what he does he can make the time pass very enjoyably indeed. It's not art but it can be artfully done. Or not.

So be it. I can enjoy junk food just as well as a healthy nutritional meal. It only becomes deadening and dangerous when people start trying to convince you that cotton candy is the new health food. Which was particularly my point above re: Black Panther and the ridiculous fawning praise of what was, in the end, simply more of the same but with added pretense.

A lot of the push-back seems to me a matter more of semantics than anything else. Hardcore fans don't like hearing their favorites declared "kid's films" or "disposable" and take such language as baiting or an attempt at insult but for me it's simply a matter of classification. If a movie features grown men (or women) dressing up in colorful costumes for the purpose of exacting vigilante justice on other costumed miscreants, that is by definition a film designed for (if perhaps not patronized exclusively by) children. It's a childish conceit. An enjoyable one sometimes, but childish nonetheless. Saying so shouldn't diminish whatever pleasure you derive from it. It doesn't for me. I think The Hulk, while artfully made, is one of the most childish movies I've ever seen. It's also endlessly entertaining. And utterly, completely shallow and meaningless.

Again, not everything can be Shakespeare or Tolstoy.

On the other hand... not everything is Shakespeare or Tolstoy.

[LegacyCosts]

He's right though. These dc/marvel films like wonder woman, captain marvel or black panther are marketed like feminist/racial progressive landmarks when they're just the same crap we've been getting for years, disney and warner brothers aren't progressive they just want your money. Disney is the same company who made nearly every animated minority look white in their cartoons. Wonder woman's entire plot is about a man and his arc.

What year did buffy come out? 1997? She's the most powerful character in the show including all the men, saves their asses and the world a bunch of times and I wasn't told over and over how we should be thanking the creators for breaking the chains of feminine oppression.

[wallendo]

Originally Posted by CyberpunkCentral

Director Terry Gilliam Thinks Marvel Movies Are Repetitive and Lack Real Gravity, Hated Black Panther

https://comicbook.com/marvel/2019/12...rvel-comments/

Did the author of the article actually interview Terry Gilliam? More likely he plagiarized some other source he failed to mention. Why would comicbook.com want to interview Terry Gilliam. Most likely he stole the quotes from some other site that likely stole them from somewhere else. He also likely picked small bits just to inflame comicbook.com readers.

It seems like the real issue TG is ranting about is that children should look to real people for role models, not cartoon characters.

[Bugg]

Originally Posted by wallendo

Did the author of the article actually interview Terry Gilliam? More likely he plagiarized some other source he failed to mention. Why would comicbook.com want to interview Terry Gilliam. Most likely he stole the quotes from some other site that likely stole them from somewhere else. He also likely picked small bits just to inflame comicbook.com readers.

It seems like the real issue TG is ranting about is that children should look to real people for role models, not cartoon characters.

comicbook.com is garbage tier. Every time I see something linked from their site, it turns out to be nothing more than a paragraph or two lifted from someone else's article or interview. Their staff must be a bunch of former Gawker media listicle creators.