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Old 03-26-2020, 01:08 AM   #5601
shane01 shane01 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PRO-630HD View Post
Agreed! The draft completed a year before The Last Jedi was released. Since Fischer was dead the smart thing to do was have Luke Skywalker take command of the Resistance in their fight against the First Order! So no you don't kill off the one man that saved the entire galaxy and turn him into a self loathing Hermit! Rian Johnson is an idiot and took a giant $hi+! all over Luke Skywalker's character! Along with his treatment of Rey are easily the films biggest problems. Canto Bright is the least of The Last Jedi's issues. Hamill knew this early as he stated "Luke would take a year or two off and come back and sort out the problem. Jedi's never quit. Not my Luke Skywalker" And another thing Hamill knows the character of Luke Skywalker far better than Rian Johnson ever will. Bottom line is the character arcs were far better in an enclosed episode 7 - 9 trilogy. Drawing episode 9 into a 9 story arc was bound to collapse under it's own weight. The sequel trilogy started out so well with The Force Awakens and unfortunately went downhill from there. It also helped tremendously that Lawrence Kasdan helped write the script! I would have paid him whatever he wanted to write all three.
I don't really agree with this. The Last Jedi is my favorite of the three and Luke was given some real dimension and Johnson got a great performance out of Hamill. I don't consider Hamill the authority on Luke Skywalker any more than I am.
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Old 03-26-2020, 01:11 AM   #5602
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JJ Abrams sent Luke away, way before Johnson came along.
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Old 03-26-2020, 01:12 AM   #5603
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I regret ordering fro DMC. Even though I got a really good deal on all the movies. $125 for 9 4K movies is good. But not happy my order hasn’t moved an inch.
did you get a email from them saying shipped? and when?
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Old 03-26-2020, 01:13 AM   #5604
Hardback247 Hardback247 is offline
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He wasn't wrong about anything! Disney made him rescind his comments!
No, they did not. Don't be silly.
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Old 03-26-2020, 01:18 AM   #5605
Hardback247 Hardback247 is offline
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Two can play at that game. Go to 3:19 of this video, and watch until 4:38.

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Old 03-26-2020, 01:19 AM   #5606
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gacivory View Post
JJ Abrams sent Luke away, way before Johnson came along.
This is a great point. Abrams is all about bold, short-sighted story choices. His process is "What if we did this?" Whether it's putting Luke on an island for a really dramatic reveal, Palpatine growing a tank of Snokes, or the entire character of Captain Phasma. Abrams figured Luke was someone else's problem and I loved how Johnson handled it.
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Old 03-26-2020, 01:28 AM   #5607
Hardback247 Hardback247 is offline
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Say, do any of you remember how Luke's arc in the OT was based on the structure of Joseph Campbell's Hero's Journey? Well, believe it or not, Luke in the ST fits very well with the third and final act of that classic structure, known as The Return.

Refusal of the Return
Having found bliss and enlightenment in the other world, the hero may not want to return to the ordinary world to bestow the boon onto his fellow man.

Quote:
Campbell: "When the hero-quest has been accomplished, through penetration to the source, or through the grace of some male or female, human or animal, personification, the adventurer still must return with his life-transmuting trophy. The full round, the norm of the monomyth, requires that the hero shall now begin the labor of bringing the runes of wisdom, the Golden Fleece, or his sleeping princess, back into the kingdom of humanity, where the boon may redound to the renewing of the community, the nation, the planet or the ten thousand worlds. But the responsibility has been frequently refused. Even Gautama Buddha, after his triumph, doubted whether the message of realization could be communicated, and saints are reported to have died while in the supernal ecstasy. Numerous indeed are the heroes fabled to have taken up residence forever in the blessed isle of the unaging Goddess of Immortal Being."
The Magic Flight
Sometimes the hero must escape with the boon, if it is something that the gods have been jealously guarding. It can be just as adventurous and dangerous returning from the journey as it was to go on it.

Quote:
Campbell: "If the hero in his triumph wins the blessing of the goddess or the god and is then explicitly commissioned to return to the world with some elixir for the restoration of society, the final stage of his adventure is supported by all the powers of his supernatural patron. On the other hand, if the trophy has been attained against the opposition of its guardian, or if the hero's wish to return to the world has been resented by the gods or demons, then the last stage of the mythological round becomes a lively, often comical, pursuit. This flight may be complicated by marvels of magical obstruction and evasion."
Rescue from Without
Just as the hero may need guides and assistants to set out on the quest, often he must have powerful guides and rescuers to bring them back to everyday life, especially if the person has been wounded or weakened by the experience.

Quote:
Campbell: "The hero may have to be brought back from his supernatural adventure by assistance from without. That is to say, the world may have to come and get him. For the bliss of the deep abode is not lightly abandoned in favor of the self-scattering of the wakened state. 'Who having cast off the world,' we read, 'would desire to return again? He would be only there.' And yet, in so far as one is alive, life will call. Society is jealous of those who remain away from it, and will come knocking at the door. If the hero... is unwilling, the disturber suffers an ugly shock; but on the other hand, if the summoned one is only delayed—sealed in by the beatitude of the state of perfect being (which resembles death)—an apparent rescue is effected, and the adventurer returns."
The Crossing of the Return Threshold
The trick in returning is to retain the wisdom gained on the quest, to integrate that wisdom into a human life, and then maybe figure out how to share the wisdom with the rest of the world.

Quote:
Campbell: "The returning hero, to complete his adventure, must survive the impact of the world. Many failures attest to the difficulties of this life-affirmative threshold. The first problem of the returning hero is to accept as real, after an experience of the soul-satisfying vision of fulfillment, the passing joys and sorrows, banalities and noisy obscenities of life. Why re-enter such a world? Why attempt to make plausible, or even interesting, to men and women consumed with passion, the experience of transcendental bliss? As dreams that were momentous by night may seem simply silly in the light of day, so the poet and the prophet can discover themselves playing the idiot before a jury of sober eyes. The easy thing is to commit the whole community to the devil and retire again into the heavenly rock dwelling, close the door, and make it fast. But if some spiritual obstetrician has drawn the shimenawa across the retreat, then the work of representing eternity in time, and perceiving in time eternity, cannot be avoided"
Master of Two Worlds
This step is usually represented by a transcendental hero like Jesus or Gautama Buddha. For a human hero, it may mean achieving a balance between the material and spiritual. The person has become comfortable and competent in both the inner and outer worlds.

Quote:
Campbell: "Freedom to pass back and forth across the world division, from the perspective of the apparitions of time to that of the causal deep and back—not contaminating the principles of the one with those of the other, yet permitting the mind to know the one by virtue of the other—is the talent of the master. The Cosmic Dancer, declares Nietzsche, does not rest heavily in a single spot, but gaily, lightly, turns and leaps from one position to another. It is possible to speak from only one point at a time, but that does not invalidate the insights of the rest. The individual, through prolonged psychological disciplines, gives up completely all attachment to his personal limitations, idiosyncrasies, hopes and fears, no longer resists the self-annihilation that is prerequisite to rebirth in the realization of truth, and so becomes ripe, at last, for the great at-one-ment. His personal ambitions being totally dissolved, he no longer tries to live but willingly relaxes to whatever may come to pass in him; he becomes, that is to say, an anonymity."
Freedom to Live
In this step, mastery leads to freedom from the fear of death, which in turn is the freedom to live. This is sometimes referred to as living in the moment, neither anticipating the future nor regretting the past.

Quote:
Campbell: "The hero is the champion of things becoming, not of things become, because he is. "Before Abraham was, I AM." He does not mistake apparent changelessness in time for the permanence of Being, nor is he fearful of the next moment (or of the 'other thing'), as destroying the permanent with its change. 'Nothing retains its own form; but Nature, the greater renewer, ever makes up forms from forms. Be sure that nothing perishes in the whole universe; it does but vary and renew its form.' Thus the next moment is permitted to come to pass."

Last edited by Hardback247; 03-26-2020 at 01:32 AM.
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Old 03-26-2020, 01:35 AM   #5608
IndyMLVC IndyMLVC is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gacivory View Post
JJ Abrams sent Luke away, way before Johnson came along.
But JJ didn't make Luke an a$$hole. That was all Rian.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardback247 View Post
No, they did not. Don't be silly.
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Old 03-26-2020, 01:37 AM   #5609
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But JJ didn't make Luke an a$$hole. That was all Rian.
For the people who complain about Luke being an a$$hole, it's like they didn't even watch the ending.
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Old 03-26-2020, 01:38 AM   #5610
Hardback247 Hardback247 is offline
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Where is your proof that Disney and Lucasfilm forced Mark Hamill to change his mind? If you have no concrete evidence, then I have no choice but to call your claim a conspiracy theory.
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Old 03-26-2020, 01:43 AM   #5611
IndyMLVC IndyMLVC is offline
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Originally Posted by Hardback247 View Post
For the people who complain about Luke being an a$$hole, it's like they didn't even watch the ending.
You mean the part where Luke died for no ******* reason? Yeah. Don't remind me.
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Old 03-26-2020, 01:47 AM   #5612
Geoff D Geoff D is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crystalpepsi View Post
Is there a source for this? I know that Reliance did 16-bit 4K scans in 2012 for the original trilogy, but I haven't seen a single source mentioning TPM, and the 4K scan thing doesn't make much sense.

Very few shots (~170 out of 2000+) lack digital effects, so it's a digital film for all intents and purposes. A 4K scan of a 2K filmout would be more expensive than an upscale and would look worse for nearly every shot (except for those ~170 au naturel shots without digital effects).

It's unlikely that they spliced filmouts of the 2011 changes (like the CGI Yoda) into the negative, so you would have to redo those, and it would be a huge waste of money to do the same changes for releases five months apart.
He's talking bollocks. See below. And when the caps appear it'll be quite obvious that it's the exact same master as the Blu, DNR included, underneath the new HDR colour grading. MisterXDTV already gave us one set of comparisons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by samlop10 View Post
The Phantom Menace 4K Disc Review:

https://thedigitalbits.com/item/star...tom-menace-uhd

Not surprised at the results given the state of digital production at the time.
As with the OT discs he's way off on some of those tech specs. He actually starts off pretty well as the movie was indeed one big filmout of the 2K finished VFX (with even the non-VFX shots filmed back out from scans for the sake of continuity), but Lowry had absolutely nothing to do with the 2001 DVD release, that's totally false, and they didn't create a "2K DI" for it back then either as the DVD was simply transferred from the interpositive that was printed from the filmout neg. And not transferred very well at that.

When they did the 2011 Blu remaster and the 2012 3D version they did a new "image harvest" from the best possible source that contained the finished VFX: the existing 2K digital files of all 2000 shots. They didn't "scan" any film materials at all, and the Blu and 3D versions use the same master at source (before the conversion was begun, I mean). It's that 2K master which has simply been upscaled for the UHD. More copy and paste nonsense from Bill, why am I not surprised that some people seem to think they know what they're talking about just because they listen to him? *le sigh*

Last edited by Geoff D; 03-26-2020 at 01:54 AM.
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Old 03-26-2020, 01:50 AM   #5613
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You mean the part where Luke died for no ******* reason? Yeah. Don't remind me.
You know, it feels like people like you go out of their way to ignore certain important details about character motivations and plot points, and instead make cynical and snarky remarks about them.
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Old 03-26-2020, 01:58 AM   #5614
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It's comforting that even the great virus apocalypse can't stop Star Wars arguments on the internet.
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Old 03-26-2020, 02:02 AM   #5615
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardback247 View Post
You know, it feels like people like you go out of their way to ignore certain important details about character motivations and plot points, and instead make cynical and snarky remarks about them.
and it feels like all you do is argue with people that don't share your perspective about Star Wars.
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Old 03-26-2020, 02:06 AM   #5616
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and it feels like all you do is argue with people that don't share your perspective about Star Wars.
I'm just trying to give the filmmakers the benefit of the doubt.
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Old 03-26-2020, 02:07 AM   #5617
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Luke's death was not for no reason. It was a self-sacrifice.
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Old 03-26-2020, 02:11 AM   #5618
Nothing371 Nothing371 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardback247 View Post
I'm just trying to give the filmmakers the benefit of the doubt.
Yeah, but you don't have to argue with people every time they offer an opinion that diverges from yours.

It's not like you ever go "oh hmm, that's interesting. I never thought of it that way." You're just as stubborn as the people you admonish. Like every time someone offers an unpopular opinion on Star Wars, hell even a 50/50 split opinion, we don't need Hardback247 setting the record straight. Plus it often seems like reaching for high-fives. You're ALWAYS defending the filmmakers when there is very clearly a lot of criticism to be had.

Star Wars is huge to lots of people and there are plenty of differing perspectives.
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Old 03-26-2020, 02:15 AM   #5619
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For instance your last reply, there are plenty of people that felt like Luke's sacrifice was in vain, and not necessary.
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Old 03-26-2020, 02:19 AM   #5620
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Kinda sucks that the featurettes and web docs for the prequels aren't included, the extensive bonus content were the main appeal for me. On the bright side I can save some money and get the OT/TFA/RO first and pick the prequels up when they're on sale.
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