The Matrix 4K UHD (1999)

[Agent Kay]

Originally Posted by Goodsuc81

Does anyone know if the 5.1 mix on here is the original audio mix?

The home video mix, yes.

[spider-neil]

This and Blade Runner (80s) are my favorite 4K disks. To be fair, I don't have many.

[TXMoviebuff77]

The Matrox was only the 8th 4K release I watched & I was deeply impressed, say what you want about the sequels but they look just as good.

[tylergfoster]

I wish they'd fix the handful of weird low-res shots that I saw in Reloaded (and was told crop up in Revolutions also).

[Goodsuc81]

Originally Posted by Agent Kay

The home video mix, yes.

So it’s the mix that was heard in theaters?

[Agent Kay]

Originally Posted by Goodsuc81

So it’s the mix that was heard in theaters?

No its the near-field mix that went on the home video releases at the time.
As original as studios give us.

[Geoff D]

I've got the DTS cinema mix on a scan of some tatty-assed theatrical print, it looks and sounds bloody awful

[singhcr]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I've got the DTS cinema mix on a scan of some tatty-assed theatrical print, it looks and sounds bloody awful

The DTS cinema mix sounds awful?

[Vangeli]

Originally Posted by singhcr

The DTS cinema mix sounds awful?

Never heard it but if Geoff says it’s bad I assume it’s hot overcooked clipped garbage that is universally loved because it’s “loud” and “makes the subs go boom.”

[Goodsuc81]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I've got the DTS cinema mix on a scan of some tatty-assed theatrical print, it looks and sounds bloody awful

Even so I would love to hear it

[singhcr]

Originally Posted by Vangeli

Never heard it but if Geoff says it’s bad I assume it’s hot overcooked clipped garbage that is universally loved because it’s “loud” and “makes the subs go boom.”

If I recall Geoff listens to his movies now primarily though TV speakers, no?

[Poya]

Originally Posted by Agent Kay

No its the near-field mix that went on the home video releases at the time.
As original as studios give us.

That’s balls. The original mix is what won the Oscars. Having it not included is insulting.

[VonMagnum]

Originally Posted by singhcr

The DTS cinema mix sounds awful?

No, it doesn't. I wouldn't trust anything he says. It's night and day BETTER than the Atmos mix in terms of dynamics. I carefully matched levels for dialog in several scenes and then measured the sound effects (e.g. explosions, gunfire, etc.) and the Cinema DTS mix had sound effects 8dB louder than the Atmos mix, let alone the old DD mix. The Cinema DTS want knocks your pants off by comparison for dynamic range. It might be too much for some people at home, but I think it sounds AWESOME. There's not enough overhead action in the Atmos mix (compared to Neural X upmixed Cinema DTS) to justify it on that basis, alone. It's also easy to remux the 4K footage with the Cinema DTS soundtrack as an OPTION.

Of course there was also a Dolby Digital Cinema Mix (haven't seen that one offered anywhere). The Cinema DTS mix was included on the fan version posted somewhere once upon a time (converted from the "AptX" DTS CD theater disc). They combined the BD with I think the Chroma levels from the DVD to get a "mostly HD" video mix that wasn't all "green" (and color wise which I vastly prefer to the 4K version), but the resolution isn't quite there just the same as the Blu-Ray let alone the 4K UHD, but you can rip the DTS track and remux to the UHD video instead or the green Blu-Ray or whatever with various tools out there.

[Poya]

Originally Posted by VonMagnum

No, it doesn't. I wouldn't trust anything he says. It's night and day BETTER than the Atmos mix in terms of dynamics. I carefully matched levels for dialog in several scenes and then measured the sound effects (e.g. explosions, gunfire, etc.) and the Cinema DTS mix had sound effects 8dB louder than the Atmos mix, let alone the old DD mix. The Cinema DTS want knocks your pants off by comparison for dynamic range. It might be too much for some people at home, but I think it sounds AWESOME. There's not enough overhead action in the Atmos mix (compared to Neural X upmixed Cinema DTS) to justify it on that basis, alone. It's also easy to remux the 4K footage with the Cinema DTS soundtrack as an OPTION.

Of course there was also a Dolby Digital Cinema Mix (haven't seen that one offered anywhere). The Cinema DTS mix was included on the fan version posted somewhere once upon a time (converted from the "AptX" DTS CD theater disc). They combined the BD with I think the Chroma levels from the DVD to get a "mostly HD" video mix that wasn't all "green" (and color wise which I vastly prefer to the 4K version), but the resolution isn't quite there just the same as the Blu-Ray let alone the 4K UHD, but you can rip the DTS track and remux to the UHD video instead or the green Blu-Ray or whatever with various tools out there.

Jesus Christ, we have to do all that work just to watch a movie? The studios really hate us!

[VonMagnum]

Originally Posted by Poya

Jesus Christ, we have to do all that work just to watch a movie? The studios really hate us!

You don't have to do anything. Someone asked about the Cinema DTS soundtrack version. I think, overall, it's better than the new Atmos track for sheer impact. When even a simple scene like the Nebuchadnezzar backing into that hiding spot with the electricity sounds all around is just freaking almost twice as loud as the Atmos version relative to the dialog volume. The soundtrack is LOUD in the effects areas at the same dialog level. Cheap and/or underpowered speakers probably wouldn't like it too much as it needs about 8x more power in those moments than the Atmos version.

At least the Atmos track put some effects where they originally were in the DTS cinema track. For years after getting the original DVD, I couldn't understand why the scene with the gun racks flying into place in the "Construct" right before they go to rescue Morpheus didn't do what I heard in the theater back in 1999, which was to have that flying sound go from the front of the theater into the back of the theater at that moment. It just sort of got loud mostly up front with "some" sounds in the surround speakers. I saw The Matrix like 17 times at the theater (and 15 of those times it was in DTS) so that was the one scene where I REALLY noticed the surround effect and thought it was awesome, particularly in a large auditorium. I was very disappointed in the Dolby Digital soundtrack and wasn't sure why it didn't sound like it did in the theater (and I thought possibly it was just the room/setup).

When I got the Cinema DTS version, sure enough it flew into the back of the room just like I remembered, although it wasn't quite as impressive in a 24' room as a 200'+ room, but you could definitely hear the front-to-back change. I was pleased to hear that the Atmos version does the same basic effect once again, like the DTS version. I don't know if the original Cinema Dolby Digital version did it or not as I never heard that version at the theater to compare, but certainly the "near field" home mix did not.

Overall, the only thing inferior about the Atmos mix is the dynamic range has been reduced, probably to spare most home theaters from blowing speakers and the like (the cinema mix is not near field and the dynamics are not compressed, even if the soundtrack is technically "lossy" (albeit at 882kbps, well above even BD 640kbps DD rates, but I think DD is more efficient so it's probably a wash, but still reasonably transparent at that rate).

Personally, I wish more BD/UHD soundtracks had the OPTION of the original cinema soundtracks in addition to the "near field" mixes most studios use these days (I think Paramount is an exception and uses the cinema mixes). Not all our home theaters are "near field" setups and high quality gear has had correction for near field/far field since the 1990s with the THX "Re-EQ" setting and modern AVR "Cinema EQ" settings. Having "some" use cinema EQ and others use near field when they aren't marked as such on the discs means some EQ will either not get applied or will be applied twice depending on the disc and AVR setting. They could have used a flag these days to mark which it is and the AVR could have been set up to respond automatically accordingly depending on your preference setup to match your own home theater.

[Agent Kay]

The cinema mix is punchier in any format.

[Schwartzy]

Originally Posted by tylergfoster

I wish they'd fix the handful of weird low-res shots that I saw in Reloaded (and was told crop up in Revolutions also).

What low res shots?

[gates70]

Originally Posted by Agent Kay

The cinema mix is punchier in any format.

Punchier doesn't mean better. It's just louder. The ATMOS mix has better resolution, detail, panning across the channels, etc.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by singhcr

If I recall Geoff listens to his movies now primarily though TV speakers, no?

This was before The Great Surround Sound Abandonment of 2019™. It's a cinema mix so it's got no X-curve rolloff (in case people don't know, theatrical mixes have loads more treble in the dialogue and/or front channels because the speakers are behind the acoustically perforated screen, and this effect of playing through the screen rolls off the treble so it sounds 'normal') and sounds so bright you could cut glass with it.

Of coursh I can and did activate the X-curve processing to get the proper roll off (though I bet some people listen to it with it off anyway because they prefer the harsher sound) but it still sounds so "hot", especially in the very loud rear channels which are so loud because they're intended for the much wider speaker placement in big auditoria. What works in the cinema doesn't work at home unless you actually have theatrical gear, like that amazingly nutty AndySu bloke.

Originally Posted by Poya

That’s balls. The original mix is what won the Oscars. Having it not included is insulting.

See above. What plays in the cinema is not always suited for near-field home listening, many of those movies you've listed in your "this won Oscars for..." thread have either been redone for near-field or totally remixed outright into Atmos. Even when we're drooling over having an OG mono or Lt/Rt stereo mix on a disc it's been sweetened for consumer usage e.g. rolling off the X-curve as said.

[Poya]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

This was before The Great Surround Sound Abandonment of 2019™. It's a cinema mix so it's got no X-curve rolloff (in case people don't know, theatrical mixes have loads more treble in the dialogue and/or front channels because the speakers are behind the acoustically perforated screen, and this effect of playing through the screen rolls off the treble so it sounds 'normal') and sounds so bright you could cut glass with it.

Of coursh I can and did activate the X-curve processing to get the proper roll off (though I bet some people listen to it with it off anyway because they prefer the harsher sound) but it still sounds so "hot", especially in the very loud rear channels which are so loud because they're intended for the much wider speaker placement in big auditoria. What works in the cinema doesn't work at home unless you actually have theatrical gear, like that amazingly nutty AndySu bloke.


See above. What plays in the cinema is not always suited for near-field home listening, many of those movies you've listed in your "this won Oscars for..." thread have either been redone for near-field or totally remixed outright into Atmos. Even when we're drooling over having an OG mono or Lt/Rt stereo mix on a disc it's been sweetened for consumer usage e.g. rolling off the X-curve as said.

I know that audio has to be done for home theater. That’s pretty much obvious. My thread (and HD Goofnut’s) was more about how close it can replicate the experience.