Volume Leveling????

[Mobjack]

Hello all. I did a search on this but did not find much, so I apologize if this has been asked before.

I was wondering about something. Sometimes I will watch a movie, be it Blu or SD, and there are some movies where you have to crank up the volume to here the dialog and then BOOM!, some action scene comes in and it is craaaazy loud. Not a huge deal when I am home alone watching a movie, but if I try to watch one like that that and the kids are asleep, it is a little problematic. Are there receivers that have a form or volume leveling built in?

Thanks!

[BACsader]

What receiver do you have? Yes, almost all current receivers have dynamic range control which can be used for nighttime watching. Look through your manual and you will probably find it.

[Mobjack]

Currently I have a HTIB, but I am moving soon to an apartment and I wanted to get a decent receiver and was just curious if the sound leveling was available.

Thanks for your reply.

[johnnymech]

Originally Posted by BACsader

What receiver do you have? Yes, almost all current receivers have dynamic range control

That wouldn't be needed if movies were mixed properly in the first place. There's no reason to have the dialog so low in the mix, followed by a loud noise.

[BACsader]

Originally Posted by johnnymech

That wouldn't be needed if movies were mixed properly in the first place. There's no reason to have the dialog so low in the mix, followed by a loud noise.

I know what you are saying, but he is using an HTIB. This could be the reason for his problem because speakers that generally come with an HTIB are not generally capable of handling the dynamic range that is needed to reproduce movies or music. I doubt it is in the mix.

[johnnymech]

Originally Posted by BACsader

I know what you are saying, but he is using an HTIB. This could be the reason for his problem because speakers that generally come with an HTIB are not generally capable of handling the dynamic range that is needed to reproduce movies or music. I doubt it is in the mix.

I'm not sure the problem isn't in the mix. People with different set-ups have complained about the problem for years. The average viewer at home (and they outnumber audiophiles) thinks the volume of the spoken dialog is too low in the mix. Well they aren't making their own equipment. They're buying products that are readily available in the stores, taking them home and using them, and turning up the volume to hear the spoken dialog. You can't fault the end user.

I'd also like to re-hash my idea of movies having a sound-intro feature that plays a tone representing the loudest volume you will hear in the move, letting people adjust their volume right at the beginning of the feature.

[BACsader]

I understand, but, these movies are mixed in studios with audiophile grade equipment. They aren't purposely going to change the mix to suit an average Joe's home theater. Yes, there are some movies where the mix isn't quite right, for instance, The Dark Knight, but these movies where dialog is too low compared to the action sequences and music are only a few.

[johnnymech]

Originally Posted by BACsader

They aren't purposely going to change the mix to suit an average Joe's home theater.

That's not a bad idea considering a movie is going to live on home video for a long time, where the theatrical run is only a few weeks these days. There's no shame in a home theater mix.

[Bear28]

I just bought an Onkyo 576 and noticed the same sort of thing.

Would this be the "dynamic EQ" that is enabled? When I turn this off everything is MUCH softer.

Should dynamic EQ be on the majority of the time??

I also have a separate option called Cinema Filter and Late Night which both are for making loud tracks quieter.

Thanks

[Squozen]

Originally Posted by johnnymech

That wouldn't be needed if movies were mixed properly in the first place. There's no reason to have the dialog so low in the mix, followed by a loud noise.

Yes there is... it's called 'dynamics'.

If you don't like dynamic sound, the ability to reduce it is right there in your receiver. Of course, then it's no longer the same mix that was heard theatrically.

I do suspect that most people who complain about the dynamics of movie soundtracks are either using poor quality equipment (eg, TV speakers or - apologies to the OP - HTiBs) or have their system configured poorly (eg, centre speaker too low and not angled towards the listening position).

[Squozen]

Originally Posted by Bear28

I just bought an Onkyo 576 and noticed the same sort of thing.

Would this be the "dynamic EQ" that is enabled? When I turn this off everything is MUCH softer.

Should dynamic EQ be on the majority of the time??

I also have a separate option called Cinema Filter and Late Night which both are for making loud tracks quieter.

Thanks

I would only use a dynamic EQ if I didn't care about accurately reproducing the intended soundtrack. As accuracy is important to me, I wouldn't touch Dynamic EQ with a bargepole.

Everything being 'softer' isn't a problem - there's a volume control for just this purpose.

If there are sleeping kids or something, definitely engage the Late Night control, but I wouldn't use anything that purports to adjust the EQ or volume away from the original sound design by choice.

[Ryu77]

As almost all dialog is coming through the center channel, I find that boosting the center channel volume up a couple notches (all HTiB and AV Receivers should allow volume adjustments for each speaker) really helps to enhance dialog levels while still being able to retain the dynamic range intended in the movie. Another way to fix this would be to buy a rather large center speaker.

[Squozen]

Originally Posted by Ryu77

As almost all dialog is coming through the center channel, I find that boosting the center channel volume up a couple notches (all HTiB and AV Receivers should allow volume adjustments for each speaker) really helps to enhance dialog levels while still being able to retain the dynamic range intended in the movie. Another way to fix this would be to buy a rather large center speaker.

The positioning of the centre speaker is critical. Ideally you don't want it to be positioned back from the edge of a shelf or under an overhang, and if it is significantly below or above the level of your ears, you want to angle it to point towards you. Tweeters are generally quite directional.

With a decent centre speaker, and without a bunch of rubbish surrounding it to interfere, I find I don't need to boost the level at all. I did need to boost by a decibel or so when I had my 33" CRT sitting right on top of the speaker, causing a small loss in intelligibility.

[Ryu77]

Originally Posted by Squozen

The positioning of the centre speaker is critical. Ideally you don't want it to be positioned back from the edge of a shelf or under an overhang, and if it is significantly below or above the level of your ears, you want to angle it to point towards you. Tweeters are generally quite directional.

With a decent centre speaker, and without a bunch of rubbish surrounding it to interfere, I find I don't need to boost the level at all. I did need to boost by a decibel or so when I had my 33" CRT sitting right on top of the speaker, causing a small loss in intelligibility.

I do have a "decent" center speaker and I also feel that my center is positioned quite well (feel free to check out my gallery) and I do feel that a slight adjustment to the center volume makes dialog a little more present which sounds better to my preferences. However, we are all different and will like different settings. From looking at your gallery, I would say that my center is certainly no worse off than yours and my amp is more than capable of delivering the movie audio track as the producer intended (THX Ultra 2 Plus certified).

So from this, I can discern that it comes down to preference. It quite possibly could be that my front speakers are quite large and powerful (they are also bi-amped) so a slight tweaking of channel volume levels are needed to balance these out for movie tracks (I also boost my surround speakers slightly for movie watching).

Also, just to note, this doesn't affect my music listening at all as I always only use my two front speakers for stereo tracks.

[Squozen]

Originally Posted by Ryu77

From looking at your gallery, I would say that my center is certainly no worse off than yours and my amp is more than capable of delivering the movie audio track as the producer intended (THX Ultra 2 Plus certified).

I suspect the cabinet surrounding it on all sides is probably making a minor difference (if my experience after making more open space around my centre speaker means anything!) and your centre looks to be at least half a foot closer to the floor than mine, but as you say, if a small volume tweak helps out there's nothing wrong with that.

I've been meaning to angle my centre a little upwards for a while, actually. I should give that a try.

If I were you, I'd experiment with moving the centre speaker forward so it's an inch or two clear of the surrounding cabinet, just as a test. It'll look terrible, but does it reduce the need to boost the volume?

[Ryu77]

Squozen, there is no way that the cabinet will have any effect on the center channel sound. It is hard to tell from the photo but the actual speaker drivers are aligned perfectly with the cabinet, meaning that they are level and that the cabinet does not protude any further than the speaker does. I have tried angling the speaker up and the difference was not noticable. There is a clear area from the center speaker to where I sit so I am happy with the sound stage as it is.

Thank you for your thoughts though.

[Squozen]

No probs, and sorry for derailing the thread somewhat.

[johnnymech]

Originally Posted by Squozen

Yes there is... it's called 'dynamics'.

I don't see what's dynamic about dialog that can't be heard. That's like a CG effect you can't see.

[aramis109]

Originally Posted by johnnymech

I don't see what's dynamic about dialog that can't be heard. That's like a CG effect you can't see.

Ugh. Look, it's simple:

1. Turn up the volume until you can hear the dialog.
2. Enjoy the movie.

Those dynamics you're complaining about are because you're not setting the volume correctly to enjoy the film. If it's too loud at that point for you, use the Night Time or DRC modes on your player/receiver. I certainly won't use them as I appreciate the dynamics and what they do to a film, but hey, it's your setup. Alternatively, turn up the center channel a couple db's. I just think you either don't get it or you're intentionally being obtuse to create an argument.

It seems that I see this come up a lot more in lossless audio- perhaps because they are more dynamic than previous DVD soundtracks- I dunno.

[johnnymech]

Who's arguing? I'm saying that over the year a lot of people have asked me why the dialog in movies is so low they can't hear it.