The Criterion Collection

[ravenus]

Originally Posted by FragnitoM

Criterion makes an estimated 18 million in annual revenue with only about 100 employees...

Where's that estimate from? Genuinely curious to know. I realize they're one of the top boutique labels, but that figure is a lot healthier than what I would have imagined.

And if you have the figures, how much of it comes from Wes Anderson titles?

[regeyer]

Originally Posted by FragnitoM

Criterion makes an estimated 18 million in annual revenue with only about 100 employees with a swanky park avenue office in NYC and they already have years worth of 4K scans ready to go. I think they’re fine economically and releasing UHD discs isn’t a huge gamble. People who want UHD will buy it and people who still want to watch DVDs can do that too

And what about people who want Blu-Ray? I really don't see them doing three releases. But that's what they'd have to do if they started releasing UHD.

[FragnitoM]

Originally Posted by ravenus

Where's that estimate from? Genuinely curious to know. I realize they're one of the top boutique labels, but that figure is a lot healthier than what I would have imagined.

And if you have the figures, how much of it comes from Wes Anderson titles?

I got it from a business website that lists revenue/employees numbers of businesses. I don’t know how accurate it is—I should have listed my source—but it seems like a good estimate to me. In the 2000s it was less than half that, but I think they’ve really expanded their customer base within the past few years—probably introducing themselves to new customers through the channel

[FragnitoM]

Originally Posted by regeyer

And what about people who want Blu-Ray? I really don't see them doing three releases. But that's what they'd have to do if they started releasing UHD.

Why can’t they? Every major studio and more boutique labels recently are offering all three formats. I think their DVD does so well mostly because of libraries anyways

[regeyer]

Originally Posted by FragnitoM

Why can’t they? Every major studio and more boutique labels recently are offering all three formats. I think their DVD does so well mostly because of libraries anyways

So $30 for DVD, $40 for Blu-Ray and $50 for UHD (50% off during sales). I just don't see it. We already have people (I'm not one of them), complaining about the current prices. Not to mention that Criterion appears to be putting a lot of focus on streaming. I think that's where they see the industry going. And they'd be right. I'm not happy about that, but I can see the writing on the wall.

[DimitriL]

Originally Posted by FragnitoM

Criterion makes an estimated 18 million in annual revenue with only about 100 employees with a swanky park avenue office in NYC and they already have years worth of 4K scans ready to go. I think they’re fine economically and releasing UHD discs isn’t a huge gamble.

Restoring any given film costs $50k to a cool half million. Even if they have a production partner, that's a massive chunk of their revenue before you even get to the huge money hits of licensing fees and physical production costs. And now, the costs of running a huge online service. (And assuming they pay their 100 skilled employees the salaries needed to live in NYC, there's around $5 million right there.)

One of the reasons they wanted to go to DVD/BD combos was to save money on packaging. That should give you an idea of little fat there is in this operation.

[malakaheso]

Originally Posted by DimitriL

Peter Becker and others have also talked about the issue of commentaries. One thing Criterion has really focused on in its last decade and a half is its supplements being less of a "kitchen sink" effort, and more to try and tell a specific story about a film, where they bring something very focused to the table.

I've noticed this too and always try to explain it this way to some people I know who often complain about how Criterion's features are supposedly 'lacking" compared to other boutique labels (usually Arrow) who generally release different kinds of films.

The fan boy/girl driven features that populate Arrow's discs simply wouldn't work as well for Criterion. Imagine if Au Hasard Balthazar contained a feature of crew members joking about Bresson having a bad case of the runs one particular day while shooting a key scene. Would this anecdote really increase your appreciation of the film?

More is not always better.

[DimitriL]

Originally Posted by malakaheso

I've noticed this too and always try to explain it this way to some people I know who often complain about how Criterion's features are supposedly 'lacking" compared to other boutique labels (usually Arrow) who generally release different kinds of films.

The fan boy/girl driven features that populate Arrow's discs simply wouldn't work as well for Criterion. Imagine if Au Hasard Balthazar contained a feature of crew members joking about Bresson having a bad case of the runs one particular day while shooting a key scene. Would this anecdote really increase your appreciation of the film?

More is not always better.

Right. And while I admit that I love it when a Criterion edition is packed with goodies, it also works splendidly when they edit and decide to tell a simple story about a film.

When I talk about this, I sometimes think about the assertion that the best biopics often focus on a narrow event in a person's life and don't try to tell the whole story, but instead captures a key aspect about the subject. I think you could say that's also representative of Criterion's approach these days.

[koberulz]

Originally Posted by ravenus

Where's that estimate from? Genuinely curious to know. I realize they're one of the top boutique labels, but that figure is a lot healthier than what I would have imagined.

That's $18 million in revenue, not $18 million in profits.

[FragnitoM]

Originally Posted by DimitriL

Restoring any given film costs $50k to a cool half million. Even if they have a production partner, that's a massive chunk of their revenue before you even get to the huge money hits of licensing fees and physical production costs. And now, the costs of running a huge online service. (And assuming they pay their 100 skilled employees the salaries needed to live in NYC, there's around $5 million right there.)

One of the reasons they wanted to go to DVD/BD combos was to save money on packaging. That should give you an idea of little fat there is in this operation.

I still don’t get how manufacturing UHD discs would be such an added cost. They have been scanning Them in 4K for years and then probably spending time/money to compress them onto bluray and dvd discs. The cost between a 4K disc and a Blu-ray cannot be that different. Probably the same between a DVD and Blu-ray. If someone knows chime in, I just don’t see why what economical concerns they would have besides whether UHD would sell enough units (which I think they would)

[sonicyogurt]

Originally Posted by FragnitoM

The cost between a 4K disc and a Blu-ray cannot be that different.

Bill Lustig from Blue Underground -- who just put out their first two Ultra HD Blu-ray titles less than a month ago -- says that the authoring costs (menus, encoding, etc.) are about triple the going rate for Blu-ray, and manufacturing costs are three to four times as much.

But I don't think it's those sorts of costs that are keeping Criterion away from the format at the moment.

[DimitriL]

Originally Posted by FragnitoM

I still don’t get how manufacturing UHD discs would be such an added cost. They have been scanning Them in 4K for years and then probably spending time/money to compress them onto bluray and dvd discs. The cost between a 4K disc and a Blu-ray cannot be that different. Probably the same between a DVD and Blu-ray. If someone knows chime in, I just don’t see why what economical concerns they would have besides whether UHD would sell enough units (which I think they would)

We're not just talking about discs. As Lee Kline pointed out in his recent appearance on Roger Deakins' podcast, the costs for 4K aren't just for disc replication - every technical effort simply takes FAR longer in 4K and that's an issue.

Also, it's not necessarily that the discs are more expensive than a Blu-Ray, though a 4K disc master is substantially more expensive than a BD. It's that you're adding a third disc replication pipeline. If you were just swapping them, fine, but you're not. That means more discs, more packaging, more shipping, more retailer space for IRL stores, more everything. It's a lot, especially for a format that may or may not recoup its investment as, at this time, a niche format.

[FragnitoM]

Originally Posted by DimitriL

We're not just talking about discs. As Lee Kline pointed out in his recent appearance on Roger Deakins' podcast, the costs for 4K aren't just for disc replication - every technical effort simply takes FAR longer in 4K and that's an issue.

I listened this podcast. He said they already are and have doing the more lengthy 4K scans for years to future proof it but are then releasing it on a physical format that can’t utilize it—so this is not an issue. They’re already doing all the work and then not letting us see it

[BenOswald]

The number one reason all this endlessly pining about 4kUHD on this thread is utterly exhausting is that there is still a metric s**tton of DVD releases that have never seen an upgrade to Blu.

I'll be far more tickled to see even 10% of these titles upgraded to blu than any single 4kUHD release.

How many blu ray upgrades would have to be sacrificed for 1x dumb 4kHD disc?

[sonicyogurt]

Originally Posted by BenOswald

How many blu ray upgrades would have to be sacrificed for 1x dumb 4kHD disc?

Zero, give or take. Why do you believe otherwise?

[Gacivory]

Originally Posted by BenOswald

The number one reason all this endlessly pining about 4kUHD on this thread is utterly exhausting is that there is still a metric s**tton of DVD releases that have never seen an upgrade to Blu.

I'll be far more tickled to see even 10% of these titles upgraded to blu than any single 4kUHD release.

How many blu ray upgrades would have to be sacrificed for 1x dumb 4kHD disc?

But some of those DVD’s can go right to 4K! Love that Crash 4K! Take it over Blu!

[dbhl3000]

Salo or Pink Flamingos in 4K, for example? No thanks.
Sometimes one welcomes less detail.

[dbhl3000]

Don't give in Criterion. Next we'll be inundated with demands for 8K discs.

[Gacivory]

Originally Posted by dbhl3000

Salo or Pink Flamingos in 4K, for example? No thanks.
Sometimes one welcomes less detail.

Weak! Give them to me in 4K! Give me The Leopard and Z too! Give me different movies in 4K!

[dbhl3000]

Originally Posted by malakaheso

Regardless of whether the B+N sale happens or not (i.e most likely the latter), I have to pick up Husbands next month! That is a must!

That would be polygamy. Only one husband at a time is permitted.