HD DVD fanboy FUD thread!

[kaliraver]

I can't believe all the fud that gets tossed around AVM$ that i find it quite hilarious. Post the craziest fud you have heard of or recently read. This is the one right now in AVM$ about a thread trying to convince people to join HD-DUD.

"And let's not forget about BD+. It seems to me that BD+, which will be implemented on existing Blu-ray players, opens your player to the possibility of it being bricked if BD+ suspects a compromise. With HD DVD, your player is safe. I just like the added peace of mind."

lol, how much more fud will these guys spill, OMFG I could brick my Blu-Ray when BD+ comes out, hahaha.

[CAB]

If you connect a BD+ enabled player to the Internet, it'll call the black helicopters in when it suspects pirated media. I read it on the Internet.

[dialog_gvf]

Originally Posted by kaliraver69

"And let's not forget about BD+. It seems to me that BD+, which will be implemented on existing Blu-ray players, opens your player to the possibility of it being bricked if BD+ suspects a compromise. With HD DVD, your player is safe. I just like the added peace of mind."[/B]

It's totally and completely illogical.

It can refuse to play that disc. Why would they risk a lawsuit from other studios, CE and consumers if they affected the player such that it wouldn't play any discs?

Really, would you as a studio allow another studio that sort of power?

Gary

[Robmx]

Originally Posted by CAB

If you connect a BD+ enabled player to the Internet, it'll call the black helicopters in when it suspects pirated media. I read it on the Internet.

I thought that was called Windows Vista !

[BluDrew]

I think he's referring to native BD+ code somehow corrupting firmware. I think I read something somewhere on that. I know the code is dumped once the disc is removed, and though highly unlikely, what scenarios could cause it to happen, if any?

[Rob Zuber]

Can't the AACSLA also brick a player, theoretically?

[dialog_gvf]

Originally Posted by BluDrew

I think he's referring to native BD+ code somehow corrupting firmware. I think I read something somewhere on that. I know the code is dumped once the disc is removed, and though highly unlikely, what scenarios could cause it to happen, if any?

The BD+ VM is a separate secure-VM with a limitted instruction set. It's not a full language like BD-J, it's more of a simple scripting language.

The idea of BD+ is to be tied to the particular title. It could check for a hacked machine, and not play. It could add extra watermarks. But, I don't believe it is intended to be something that can affect the non-volatile portions of the machine (beyond it's own VM).

A buggy VM, not properly secured, could have unexpected consequences. But, then how many skips and lockups have occured with HD DVD players? "Oh, these are complicated computers".

It would be an inconvenience for the consumer, for sure. But, then what is sending in an Xbox 360 3-4 times?

Please, someone prove that this internet link interactivity they are so proud of won't result in viruses, and spybots being installed.

Oh, I forgot, HDi is a Microsoft brower-type technology, and those have NEVER had any security problems.

Gary

[dialog_gvf]

Originally Posted by Rob Zuber

Can't the AACSLA also brick a player, theoretically?

I think that is the only sanctioned way. There are rules within the organization that supposedly will avoid that at all costs. But, if a Chinese maker starts flaunting the royalties, I doubt they are going to let that happen again.

Bricking the player, with AACS, would be simply poisoning the vendor's part of the MCB. The player wouldn't be able to get the media keys needed to decode the content.

This was supposed to be the case with CSS on DVD too. But, the key system was compromised. They lost all the vendor keys.

Those cheating Chinese players are using someone's legitimate vendor key.

[Lord_Stewie]

Originally Posted by kaliraver69

I can't believe all the fud that gets tossed around AVM$ that i find it quite hilarious. Post the craziest fud you have heard of or recently read. This is the one right now in AVM$ about a thread trying to convince people to join HD-DUD.

"And let's not forget about BD+. It seems to me that BD+, which will be implemented on existing Blu-ray players, opens your player to the possibility of it being bricked if BD+ suspects a compromise. With HD DVD, your player is safe. I just like the added peace of mind."

lol, how much more fud will these guys spill, OMFG I could brick my Blu-Ray when BD+ comes out, hahaha.

that makes alot of sense, this moron definitely knows what he is talking about. Did he know that you can use an HDDVD combo disc to make a panini. the ingredient is simple two wheat breads, mayo, ketchup, a liitle avs sauce on top of it, a combo disc in the middle "preferrably the HDDVD kind" add lettuce on top, and finally place in the microwave for about 4 hours on high. and VIOLA. enjoy.

[doctorD]

You know, I just don't get why any of the Studios would want to side with a company whose software (operating system) is one of the main sources for copying their movies! As well as having so many security holes too! Just a thought!

[CAB]

Originally Posted by dialog_gvf

Please, someone prove that this internet link interactivity they are so proud of won't result in viruses, and spybots being installed.

Gary

Anything that initiates an IP conversation has to open a socket to listen for responses on the random service port. If the box supports streaming content from, for example, a DLNA server, it would probably poll for the IP of the DLNA server you configured or listen for an announce.

Listening alone makes the device less secure and vulnerable to spoof, denial of service, session hijacking or formed packets that exploit a vulnerability. From my experience in networking security (a decade'ish), I'll tell you that no networked system is safe from exploitation. Development kits are out there so certainly people will be able to craft code to do bad things.

The good news is when your wife catches you watching pr0n, you can tell her that someone hacked your PS3!

[ps3andlovinit]

Originally Posted by dialog_gvf

Oh, I forgot, HDi is a Microsoft brower-type technology, and those have NEVER had any security problems.

Gary

In fact they have so much confidence in the security of their browser technology they put it into the 360 just to let you browse the internet and access content of your own choosing onto your HDTV and home theater system. .. oh wait a minute that was the other consoles. Nevermind.

[Mr.Neutral]

Originally Posted by kaliraver69

I can't believe all the fud that gets tossed around AVM$ that i find it quite hilarious. Post the craziest fud you have heard of or recently read. This is the one right now in AVM$ about a thread trying to convince people to join HD-DUD.

"And let's not forget about BD+. It seems to me that BD+, which will be implemented on existing Blu-ray players, opens your player to the possibility of it being bricked if BD+ suspects a compromise. With HD DVD, your player is safe. I just like the added peace of mind."

lol, how much more fud will these guys spill, OMFG I could brick my Blu-Ray when BD+ comes out, hahaha.

FUD is probably the most over-used word on the internet lately. This seems more to me like someone not knowing the facts and simply stating something incorrectly. A simple correction and the problem is solved.

[dialog_gvf]

Originally Posted by Mr.Neutral

FUD is probably the most over-used word on the internet lately. This seems more to me like someone not knowing the facts and simply stating something incorrectly. A simple correction and the problem is solved.

It's not so simple. Because if you try to respond to something like that in public, there will be dozens of zealots all to willing to run with the idea and agree profusely and relentlessly.

It immediately leads to people bringing up the foolish Sony BMG rootkit CD protection system (which a secure OS shouldn't permit to be installed without a severe warning and confirmation).

But, they fail to mention that Sony didn't push for BD+, Fox did. And its inclusion delayed BD and increased its costs which was clearly against Sony's best interest.

BD+ as the boogeyman has been a prime story of Amir for well over a year. How can a mere mortal compete against that, especially when he hides away in an area where you're not permitted to respond?

Gary

[gand41f]

Originally Posted by Mr.Neutral

FUD is probably the most over-used word on the internet lately. This seems more to me like someone not knowing the facts and simply stating something incorrectly. A simple correction and the problem is solved.

I don't disagree that the word FUD is rather over-used, but this one is a clear case of FUD right down to the letter of the definition of the word.

Notice the little "With HD DVD, your player is safe. I just like the added peace of mind." at the end? This guy isn't even trying to hide his agenda.

enjoy
gandalf

[REdDevil64]

Originally Posted by CAB

Listening alone makes the device less secure and vulnerable to spoof, denial of service, session hijacking or formed packets that exploit a vulnerability. From my experience in networking security (a decade'ish), I'll tell you that no networked system is safe from exploitation. Development kits are out there so certainly people will be able to craft code to do bad things.

Truth is, this is definitely a potential hole on BD+. However, HD DVD has been trumpeting their required ethernet connectivity since day one; the Toshiba players' network upgrade has reportedly bricked a few players (not many, but it has been reported on AVSForum).

Bottom line: neither format can use this as much of a selling point, but it seems that BD+ gives one more place for a hacker to get in (assumably through a copied or faked disc, or just bad code from the studio).

[Chris Gerhard]

It seems to me that code to harm the players can be put on discs for either format and I don't see how Blu-ray is any more susceptible than HD DVD. All that BD+ means to me is that HD DVD doesn't have anything comparable and therefore won't have software from companies that require the added security or won't release the title. I have both formats and don't have a problem with either, I just think it is incredibly stupid for two to exist. As long as Blu-ray has the best chance to prevail and move forward alone, I am hoping there is some way it can happen. Getting final Blu-ray specifications available and a meaningful secure BD+ is important in that regard.

Chris

[REdDevil64]

Originally Posted by Chris Gerhard

Getting final Blu-ray specifications available and a meaningful secure BD+ is important in that regard.

Agreed, but I think you have to add: Players priced for the mass-market. Given the attach rate of the PS3 and the potential sales saturation point, it just won't get BD there by itself. BDA needs some cheap (~$149) Chinese players, and they need them before Q407....

[schticker]

Originally Posted by dialog_gvf

It's not so simple. Because if you try to respond to something like that in public, there will be dozens of zealots all to willing to run with the idea and agree profusely and relentlessly.

With all due respect, it sounds very disingenuous say something like that on this forum.

It immediately leads to people bringing up the foolish Sony BMG rootkit CD protection system (which a secure OS shouldn't permit to be installed without a severe warning and confirmation).

Except that the rootkit was specifically designed to circumvent said security.

But, they fail to mention that Sony didn't push for BD+, Fox did. And its inclusion delayed BD and increased its costs which was clearly against Sony's best interest.

This is very true. However, any consortium tends to have their hands linked Red Rover-style in any decision like this. A blessing sometimes is equal to a push.

BD+ as the boogeyman has been a prime story of Amir for well over a year. How can a mere mortal compete against that, especially when he hides away in an area where you're not permitted to respond?

Well, I've seen people banned here for not towing the BR party line, so again, careful with that.

[Shadowself]

Originally Posted by schticker

With all due respect, it sounds very disingenuous say something like that on this forum.

Why? Blatant FUD is rarely tolerated here -- in either direction. Search the posts of some of the core members. We tend to correct blatant inaccuracies in either direction. Admittedly too much slips through -- in both directions, but many of us try to keep the boards about what is real rather than what is some marketeer's fantasy.

Originally Posted by schticker

Except that the rootkit was specifically designed to circumvent said security.

The rootkit was not designed by Sony. Sony shipped it and should be nailed for that. An OS cannot be made 100% secure from such things, but can be made more secure. I would classify the "OS" in the Blu-ray systems as one of those "more secure" systems.

Additionally, as soon as any rootkit kind of action was observed by the public there would be at least as great a backlash as there was against Sony for its rootkit fiasco. I don't believe any studio wants to live through that. Sometimes when the negative reaction is large enough and lasts long enough (such as with the "Sony rootkit" fiasco) people and companies do learn from others' mistakes.

Originally Posted by schticker

This is very true. However, any consortium tends to have their hands linked Red Rover-style in any decision like this. A blessing sometimes is equal to a push.

Ah, so if they consent to it they are blessing it which means they should be equated to demanding it. I fail to see the logic here. Your statements imply you don't understand how these large consortia of large, multinational corporations work.

Fox demanded a better DRM than the basics that both HD DVD and Blu-ray had. IF HD DVD had added a second, more robust layer of DRM before Blu-ray had Fox very likely would have become a HD DVD supporter.

Additionally, I'd wager that for 99.99%, or more, of users the BD+ layer won't even be noticeable. 99.99% of music download users or DVD users don't even care that there's DRM involved.

Originally Posted by schticker

Well, I've seen people banned here for not towing the BR party line, so again, careful with that.

I've yet to see a clear case where someone who was logically and technically debating the points involved get banned. It took some people who are blatantly pro HD DVD several months to get banned. Some clearly pro HD DVD persons are still posting on these boards.

If you have the facts -- and can back them up -- you can even take on the insiders in these forums without getting banned.