Man the sh#tting over this release is insane. It's unlikely these are going to get a better release anytime soon let alone a physical release. Nothing will be perfect yet people find a reason to b#tch. Maybe you'll should be happy these are an upgrade to the blus instead of the constant complaining they aren't perfection. No release is perfect!
Why didn’t the eagles just fly Frodo all the way to Mordor?
Because the Nazgûl would have attacked them and taken the Ring. The whole reason the task was given to hobbits was because they are stealthy and it's easier for them to hide. Also the eagles are likely to be seduced by the power of the Ring, same with pretty much all the races and beings.
Because the Nazgûl would have attacked them and taken the Ring. The whole reason the task was given to hobbits was because they are stealthy and it's easier for them to hide. Also the eagles are likely to be seduced by the power of the Ring, same with pretty much all the races and beings.
I guess The Matrixes are fully in Warner's hands, The Lord of the Rings is not. It was up to WETA to give them 4K Dolby Vision masters for UHD release and it was up to Jackson to decide what to do to create those new masters.
Similar story as with the Nolan's box. Turns out PJ is horny for digital look and Nolan for interpositives.
Has anybody seen They Shall Not Grow Old? He turned real black and white film into colorized digital vomit. I don't know who's more digitally perverted, Jackson, Cameron or Lucas.
I own it on Vudu, and I loved it. He colorized that vintage footage, used frame interpolation and even 3D (3D version was unavailable for purchase, maybe still is) to bring audiences to the material and remove the distance of time. All that and a sound mix created from scratch. It feels like cinema as a time machine. Jackson didn't do all that for simple reasons, there was a method and a point to it all...to make WWI live again for today's audiences. Sure didn't feel like perverted digital vomit to me.
I own it on Vudu, and I loved it. He colorized that vintage footage, used frame interpolation and even 3D (3D version was unavailable for purchase, maybe still is) to bring audiences to the material and remove the distance of time. All that and a sound mix created from scratch. It feels like cinema as a time machine. Jackson didn't do all that for simple reasons, there was a method and a point to it all...to make WWI live again for today's audiences. Sure didn't feel like perverted digital vomit to me.
I found the colourisation of that footage a complete waste of time, and just felt like it was pandering to the “I don’t want to watch black & white films” crowd. Good film though, and really didn’t pull its punches with the grim details of the war.
It feels like any director that moves from film to digital always want their old movies shot in film to look like their newer digitally shot movies. It's happened with James Cameron and George Lucas as well.
Not Spielberg, Jaws is one of the best 4K releases of the year. So much so, I went and snapped up every Spielberg 4K release to date (except for Jurassic Park and The Lost World, because I understand those have disappointed videophiles). I'll get Jurassic Park 4K and The Lost World 4K eventually as stand-alone releases, or wait for the six-film 4K collection with Jurassic Park 3 and the three Jurassic World films...as silly as they are, the two JW films released so far are dopey fun and I like them more than Jurassic Park 3 (obviously haven't seen JW3).
Last edited by Ernest Rister; 12-05-2020 at 11:12 AM.
Not Spielberg, Jaws is one of the best 4K releases of the year. So much so, I went and snapped up every Spielberg 4K release to date (except for Jurassic Park and The Lost World, because I understand those have disappointed videophiles). I'll get Jurassic Park 4K and The Lost World 4K eventually as stand-alone releases, or wait for the six-film 4K collection with Jurassic Park 3 and the three Jurassic World films...as silly as they are, the two JW films released so far are dopey fun and I like them more than Jurassic Park 3, obviously haven't seen JW3).
It sure does. So many terrific Spielberg films yet to be released on 4K...Jurassic Park and The Lost World are strange outliers in the videophile community. Bring on Sugarland Express, 1941, the Indy films, The Color Purple, Empire of the Sun, Amistad, A.I., Minority Report, Catch Me If You Can, Munich, War Horse, Lincoln and The Post. Not in a big hurry for Always, Bridge of Spies, and The Terminal. . I'll also take The BFG and Tintin in 4K, although 3D was so crucial to both and it will be missed.
So many terrific Spielberg films yet to be released on 4K...Jurassic Park and The Lost World are strange outliers in the videophile community. Bring on Sugarland Express, 1941, the Indy films, The Color Purple, Empire of the Sun, Amistad, A.I., Minority Report, Catch Me If You Can, Munich, War Horse, Lincoln and The Post. Not in a big hurry for Always, Bridge of Spies, and The Terminal. . I'll also take The BFG and Tintin in 4K, although 3D was so crucial to both and it will be missed.
Well I was indeed floored by the audio in Fellowship so far. Even the subtle stuff, "Build me an army worthy of Mordor" echoing through my room sent chills up my spine.
The only kicker - or lack thereof - was the bottom end. At times I felt like there was bass but no LFE channel. I turned on my Disney Atmos sub (a 3rd 15" sub that I don't always run unless necessary ) and that got the oomph it needed. Come to find out after the fact that there's a steep roll-off at 30Hz. Regardless, still an excellent mix! Looking forward to watching the rest over the weekend.
I'm so glad you enjoyed it. I'm a bit intrigued by your initial lack of LFE as that wasn't my experience at all. I'm glad you were able to overcome it by adjusting your set up. I can't wait to watch the rest.
Not Spielberg, Jaws is one of the best 4K releases of the year. So much so, I went and snapped up every Spielberg 4K release to date (except for Jurassic Park and The Lost World, because I understand those have disappointed videophiles). I'll get Jurassic Park 4K and The Lost World 4K eventually as stand-alone releases, or wait for the six-film 4K collection with Jurassic Park 3 and the three Jurassic World films...as silly as they are, the two JW films released so far are dopey fun and I like them more than Jurassic Park 3 (obviously haven't seen JW3).
I'm surprised to hear The Lost World disappointed videophiles. Think it looks pretty good. I'm not even sure how it's supposed to look better.
Yes. I have seen that travesty. Mentioned it a few pages back. I can’t for the life of me believe Peter Jackson thought what he did to the archival footage was acceptable. He did manage to upset a lot of film historians tho.
I found the colourisation of that footage a complete waste of time, and just felt like it was pandering to the “I don’t want to watch black & white films” crowd. Good film though, and really didn’t pull its punches with the grim details of the war.
Since its actual documentary footage, and since colorization tech has come a long way, the footage should be colorized if possible so that people can see it as it was in real life or as close as possible. The people that shot that footage weren't shooting in black and white for any artistic reason. They were shooting in black and white because its what they had at the time. They would have used color film or even 4K digital if it had been available to them, because their goal was to capture reality as accurately and clearly as possible. Jackson deserves praise for his work on that footage.
To me better more accurate colors are more important than grain so I guess that's why I prefer this release to the previous release but to each their own.
And I never excused or deny the lack of grain or the DNR. I was the first one to point it out in this thread so I don't know why there's an accusation of apologia, people realize the flaws of this release they just don't have an extreme hyperbolic issue with these flaws.
You may not have, but what about them? I must have been reading a different thread because it's not just "apologia" on show but full on demagoguery where technical naivete trumps technical knowledge and every hackneyed cliché is being rolled out to discredit what's being said and shown.
On the other side, some people are so pre-occupied with analysis and proving what did/didn't happen with the restoration - for which we've never heard from any official Warners source on the matter, only the guesswork of a total Hunt - that they're not treating them with a holistic view as to what the whole package brings.
I keep saying it but there's precious little middle ground here and it's not a good look for this forum, then again I wouldn't expect anything less.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alister_M
Sure they did, go look at the thread in the UHD wishlist forum if it's still there. That was basically the entire discussion for months. The DVDs and BDs absolutely had DNR. The theatrical versions more so than the extended, probably because they were pre-filtered to cut down on grain in the filmout negatives.
Nah. New Line LOVED a bit of DNR action when they first got into Blu-ray, and not even LOTR was immune to it. Their Pan's Labyrinth is a key example.
In a way, it's kinda amazing that controversies keep following LOTR around on home video. DVD got off lightly, all things considered, although there was less sharpening on the Euro EEs than the US ones. Then we got the theatrical Blu-rays for which FOTR in particular got a smack with the DNR stick because it was a transfer from an IP (while Towers and King were digital migrations and only had a little off the top). Caused loads of arguing and comments about not watching movies in still form, it looks great in motion, it's the best it's ever looked, what happened to just watching movies, you guys are dorks etc. Then we got the EE Blu-rays with yon greene tint and it all repeated itself, causing loads of arguing and comments about not watching movies in still form, they look great in motion, it's the best it's ever looked, what happened to just watching movies, you guys are dorks etc. Then we got the UHD Blu-rays, and, well....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernest Rister
It sure does. So many terrific Spielberg films yet to be released on 4K...Jurassic Park and The Lost World are strange outliers in the videophile community. Bring on Sugarland Express, 1941, the Indy films, The Color Purple, Empire of the Sun, Amistad, A.I., Minority Report, Catch Me If You Can, Munich, War Horse, Lincoln and The Post. Not in a big hurry for Always, Bridge of Spies, and The Terminal. . I'll also take The BFG and Tintin in 4K, although 3D was so crucial to both and it will be missed.
Lost World is lovely on UHD. Not perfick, but lovely.
I think for a level headed person who has good judgement on picture quality can say that these 4K UHD transfers are currently the best version of these movies and that they are very enjoyable...however, they are not the best they can possibly look and there is room for improvement. Now, whether they will ever be improved upon is a big question and something I personally think will happen, but in a long time from now. Or...these will be the final versions and it is what it is. I don't know.
And obviously if these were lesser movies, I wouldn't care too much about picture quality. But this is Lord of the Rings we are talking about here. One of the best movies ever, period. That's why many people want these movies to look their absolute best. That's why there is much debate in this thread.
The bolded part really is the beginning and end of this whole discussion for me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff D
You may not have, but what about them? I must have been reading a different thread because it's not just "apologia" on show but full on demagoguery where technical naivete trumps technical knowledge and every hackneyed cliché is being rolled out to discredit what's being said and shown.
On the other side, some people are so pre-occupied with analysis and proving what did/didn't happen with the restoration - for which we've never heard from any official Warners source on the matter, only the guesswork of a total Hunt - that they're not treating them with a holistic view as to what the whole package brings.
I keep saying it but there's precious little middle ground here and it's not a good look for this forum, then again I wouldn't expect anything less.
I'm going to cut Bill some slack here and assume he's simply conveying the information he was given about the transfer from his contacts. Those contacts may have been mistaken/lying, or there are simply so many VFX shots in these films that large portions of them have 2K-level detail at best. Either way, Bill is still easily one of my favorite reviewers. He's one of the best in the game right now and certainly ahead of most knuckle-dragging YouTubers or forum members, present company excluded of course.
Good morning (well, here) all. Just wanted to post a few more thoughts after ingesting a little more of the UHD of FOTR EE last night. We picked up where we left off, just after the fireworks scene in A Long Expected Party (fabulous specular highlights), and we got as far as Frodo being stabbed on Weathertop by ye olde Witch King of Angmar.
When it comes to detail: this UHD version, to MY EYE, has at least as much as detail, if not more at times, than the EE BD. But, I would expect it to have more if for no other reason than the repaired/corrected color grade. The grint ting/white balance error of the EE BD crushed the shite out of some details (e.g., some interior shots of Bag End). In close up shots, I don't necessarily see MORE detail, but I don't find any missing detail or waxiness.
The real highlight for me, however, and I can't stress this enough, is the Dolby Vision and resulting specular highlights. Forgive me, but this is the first time in my life viewing a DV encoded UHD disc on a UHD player and DV capable TV. I'm in heaven, I'm in the romance stage, still, so I am living on the dopamine rush, admittedly. Example: the interior shots of Bag End when Bilbo is packing to depart - the play of the light and the shadows it creates on the walls is hyper-realistic. It reminds me of the first time I saw a PC video game and video card both capable of what I think they used to call "ambient occlusion" making the lighting and shadows so much more real. When Frodo and Gandalf have tea and discuess the history of the ring, on a couple of close shots of the ring, I could see the reflection of the fire in the fireplace burning, which I had never noticed before. The fire in the Eye of Sauron when Frodo accidentally puts on the ring inside the Prancing Pony. When the Hobbits fall down the cliff in the very different from the novel A Shortcut To Mushrooms chapter...the light filtering through the trees to create hyper real specular highlights on the leaves on the road. The beams of light filtering through the windows inside the chambers of Orthanc. My god. I'm gobsmacked as they might say across the pond.
Granted, I can only tell you what I see, personally, with MY EYES on MY GEAR (LG SM 8600 55" in Cinema Home mode, Dolby Vision, and a Sony 800 MK2 series player). I can only tell you what I have seen thus far on the UHD disc of FOTR EE, as that's as far as I have made it. What I see is at LEAST as much detail as any of the FHD BDs before, and many times more detail, whether real or simply perceived. What I don't see, thus far, is a waxy, pastel Crayola Crayons mess.
I am genuinely curious to begin TTT, because that seems to have suffered the most on CAH comparisons. What I noted though, was that when Scottishguy posted his screencap storyboard (lulz, I don't have the patience to post that many pics, so hats off to you) is that the screencap of the exterior of The Golden Hall that looked bad on CAH did not look like that in HIS screen cap. Possibly a different frame. I don't know. I will eventually get there and leave my own thoughts.
Finally, I want to conclude with two other thoughts. First, I have owned these on every format, TE and EE, with the exception of VHS. I had already transitioned to DVD when these came out, so why go back? Anyway, what I was thinking during all this discussion is that, even theatrically, I never recalled any of these films being particularly grainy. Granted, memory easily fails us. I know that I have personally caught myself "clearly remembering" events in meticulous detail...and being proven wholesale wrong. It's embarrassing as hell when it happens, and as humans we struggle to admit it. So I never, ever go by "what I remember in the cinema" as a definitive source. But what I do recall is never, ever thinking on any home release of these films, "my, this has a nice layer of visible film grain". The second thought I will leave is this: the caps that JamesFreeman (I think that is the user) linked to on CAH showing the grain in both The Matrix and Blade Runner (1982) make one thing immediately clear: when 35mm is scanned in native 4K, there is a clearly visible difference in the look and "texture" of the film grain. THAT DIFFERENCE IS NOT VISIBLE IN THE LOTR CAPS. I will admit that freely. That kind of difference, as far as we can see with the tools/resources we have available, just does not exist. I think it's safe to say that is objective, not subjective, evidence. That, to me, is as close as you can get to a scientific argument as to whether or not we have a native 4K scan here. I am not saying it makes it true or false, one way or the other. But, if we take our emotions out of it and remove our dogs from the fights, it's clear that there is no uptick in that super fine resolution and "texture" you get on multiple other film based titles.
Finally, I want to correct something I said pages ago. I stated it would be a bold strategy for Warner, PJ, and Park Road Post to claim these are 4K OCN, etc., rebuilds and then outright lie about it. I stand by my statement that it would be bold if they claimed/stated that, and then gave us 2K upscales. Bold indeed. However, what I must correct, is that I honestly thought the information I have seen on multiple sites about the remaster process was, in fact, an officially sanctioned press release from any/all of those 3 mentioned above. I have to eat crow and say that, apart from those review sites, I can find nothing official that confirms the claims. So I may have helped to spread assumptions and bad information. I apologize.
For those of you still reading and, of those, those of you that are on the fence about a purchase, what I can tell you is that based on what I have seen so far, I have ZERO regrets about my purchase. These films have brought me JOY in every format released so far, and what I have seen of this set thus far has me grinning like a shiat eating possum. I honestly feel like I've been back in the theater, nearly 20 years ago. I can't tell you how many times I've leaned over to the wife and said, "OMG, look at that! Did you see that?!" And hell, we haven't even made it to Rivendell yet folks!
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. I'll also take The BFG and Tintin in 4K, although 3D was so crucial to both and it will be missed.
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