The Lord of the Rings Trilogy 4K UHD Extended & Theatrical (2001-2003)

[nick4Knight]

Originally Posted by slumcat

It would have been difficult in the past to go back and tinker.

Now with a digital pipeline, the possibilities are endless. A film-maker from their coffee table can make changes large and small, in a heartbeat and have near real time feedback from audiences and pass on those changes.

The temptation was always there, only now there is the possibility of indulging it.

We live in a future where no film will ever be final. A film will be a temporal product - only expressing the film-makers intent at a particular point in time. That intent will be fluid and the film will change and evolve and vacillate as the film-maker sees it fit.

Those of us who have a fixed copy will be able to have a preference say. But those streaming or new buyers will be subject to the whims and fancy of the film-maker forever.

It's definitely a hot button concept in places like this on the back of big releases like LOTR. But I like how measured you lay out the argument. It makes logical sense to me that some directors are hardlined on the idea the original work stands (Zemeckis) and some are fluid (Cameron, Lucas) and there is a scale in between.

The problem comes when someone hold every director to the Zemeckis philosophy. There is no law that says the Zemeckis attitude towards theatrical work is "right". But i also advocate for preserving original work. Like having a backup of a film before restorations are done. Having that eventually be public domain, or available in 1080p or above for posterity.

The Blade Runner blu-ray template is best, but that cost WB a lot, most likely more than can realistically be expected to scale to many titles in a studios catalog.

Originally Posted by motorheadache95

LOL I like how they closed the main thread and everything just migrated right over to this one. I sense another closure incoming...

It will be exclusively my fault if that happens.

[jonmoz]

Hi guys, sad to see the old thread closed, but I guess it was always going to happen at some point.

I don't know if this has been asked but do the theatrical and extended Blu-ray's have the newer transfers, or are they the same discs available for ages now, the main reason for this is the extended Blu-ray discs had a better picture, but the green tint ruined the overall experience.

[Tlen]

Originally Posted by nick4Knight

between LOTR discs and Patton on BD, that could only lead to decreased sales of this release.

Ahah you got a percentage over the revenue?

dogpiling series of screengrabs/posts from the (overly) negative camp

You well stigmatized your position with just this phrase.
You are not at center at all.
You just don't want any negative thing is said on this product.

The real center is who DON'T MIND what is said.

The real center is who says (like me) OBJECTIVE things,
both negative (upscale dnr sharpening), and positive (wonderful color hdr grade etc.)
You can scroll the old post searching for my (positive) assertions.

You're just an hypocrital coward.

[slumcat]

Originally Posted by cavedoctor

The thing I never will get about 4k is this.
The fanboys of that format don’t care about resolution and sharpness, yet they care about the 4k format, of which the sole purpose is resolution and sharpness.
You can get HDR on a 1080p Blu-ray, and even Dolby Atmos.
With the new VVC codec that’s coming, you could get better bit rates at higher compression ratios, while using a good 4k master.
You could get 24p as well with that, instead of 23.976.
So, when I really don’t see what the point of this format is, if the 4k/sharpness aspect doesn’t even matter to begin with, and all that really did matter was the hardware and codecs.

So, most everyone spent money on upscaled 720p, don’t worry though, telling the truth makes one a troll now.
Any amateur could have baked lines into the letter box using edge enhancement.
This product is a ****ing embarrassment.

Don’t worry though, I hear 8k is right around the corner, and 480p upscales look great on it.

This post deserves consideration and honestly, this is a nuanced topic that should be treated thoughtfully.

4K is a tough product for sure. And not because of anything wrong with it but other circumstances.

So this is the 4th home video product brought to the market for mass consumption in the past 2 generations after VHS, DVD, Blu-Ray and now UHD.

VHS to DVD transition was a no-brainer. Obviously, things had to go digital.

(And mind you any of these transitions come at immense cost to the consumer - screen equipment, player equipment, discarding old acquired content, and building a new library. So there's definitely a transition cost - which companies try to offset by building in backward compatibility.)

DVD to Blu-Ray was an upsell and it was promoted as 6 times the resolution, a game-changer, blow DVDs out of the water. And frankly, they did. But I think it came at a cost.

I think across the board, most Blu-Rays were cranked up with artificial sharpening because that is what the audience expected for the most part out of Blu-Rays. It had to be that much better than DVD otherwise what was the point. And a certain standard being acceptable and the audience was generally none the wiser because content generally looked great and there wasn't more resolution to detect nuances.

Now 4K has exposed certain fissures and quandaries into the process.

It has shown us things which we already knew -
1. There is an absolute ceiling to quality. Quality isn't infinite. Just because Blu-Ray advanced by leaps and bounds over DVD, doesn't mean UHD can do the same over Blu-Ray.

2. Blu-Ray ate UHD's lunch to a certain extent with the usual cranked up presentations so that the often more truthful UHD presentations look like they lost some detail.

3. Simply the natural progression of quality, quality will gain exponentially at lower resolutions but only incrementally at higher resolutions. So frankly upgrades will by their very nature be minor and subtle - perhaps lost on a vast amount of GA who scream at their TV - how is this better than Blu-Ray.

There are limits to even technology and this is a discussion worth having because 8K and 16K are around the corner and we will be having similar discussions. What is the extent of visual quality? Is there a ceiling to human perception or at least consumer perception after which it is lost into indifference?

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by cavedoctor

The thing I never will get about 4k is this.
The fanboys of that format don’t care about resolution and sharpness, yet they care about the 4k format, of which the sole purpose is resolution and sharpness.
You can get HDR on a 1080p Blu-ray, and even Dolby Atmos.
With the new VVC codec that’s coming, you could get better bit rates at higher compression ratios, while using a good 4k master.
You could get 24p as well with that, instead of 23.976.
So, when I really don’t see what the point of this format is, if the 4k/sharpness aspect doesn’t even matter to begin with, and all that really did matter was the hardware and codecs.

So, most everyone spent money on upscaled 720p, don’t worry though, telling the truth makes one a troll now.
Any amateur could have baked lines into the letter box using edge enhancement.
This product is a ****ing embarrassment.

Don’t worry though, I hear 8k is right around the corner, and 480p upscales look great on it.

Blu-ray and UHD can do 24p as well as 23.98, so

[Da_Bears]

Originally Posted by cavedoctor

The thing I never will get about 4k is this.
The fanboys of that format don’t care about resolution and sharpness, yet they care about the 4k format, of which the sole purpose is resolution and sharpness.
You can get HDR on a 1080p Blu-ray, and even Dolby Atmos.
With the new VVC codec that’s coming, you could get better bit rates at higher compression ratios, while using a good 4k master.
You could get 24p as well with that, instead of 23.976.
So, when I really don’t see what the point of this format is, if the 4k/sharpness aspect doesn’t even matter to begin with, and all that really did matter was the hardware and codecs.

So, most everyone spent money on upscaled 720p, don’t worry though, telling the truth makes one a troll now.
Any amateur could have baked lines into the letter box using edge enhancement.
This product is a ****ing embarrassment.

Don’t worry though, I hear 8k is right around the corner, and 480p upscales look great on it.

Maybe you should leave it in the locked thread with the fanboys and trolls comments.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Da_Bears

Maybe you should leave it in the locked thread with the fanboys and trolls comments.

Indeed. And I'll admit that guys like matey above aren't a good look either, in case Nick is reading this. There are heroes on both sides. Evil is everywhere.

[KMFDMvsEnya]

LoL. At n4k's earlier comment.

Others understood my comment about the importance of informed advocacy for better transfers when a given release proved to be poorly produced, which did eventually result in superior transfers and releases.

Whereas you seemed to argue that such efforts do not produce results.

[Show spoiler]
Those things did not happen without enthusiasts in the Home Theater community noticing the flaws and communicating their dismay and disappointment.

Frequently your posts n4k, are not stemming from a "Centrist" perspective but more often as reactionary pathological responses to what you evidently interpret as "negativity" rather than reasoned criticisms.

Do some get carried away with their critiques, at times yes but it is also a matter of opinion as well to what degree, and so do those who embrace solely blissful ignorance and rose-tinted positivity glasses of any given release.

I have not said you or others of like-minded opinions cannot enjoy these releases as is they stand, that is your prerogative and no one can change that.

What comes into conflict are those that continually champion denialism and regurgitate disingenuous and fallacious counter arguments to undermine any reasonable methods to objectively convey potential issues for others to refer to.

At times I try to address some of those in my comments but those are more for the benefit for potential new comers than the old hats who have entrenched opinions.

For myself, my comments have no ulterior motives other than championing for quality products for movies that I enjoy.

Unlike some I try not to cast aspersions or gate-keep others affections for a given film or their enthusiasm of the hobby to shut them down and score cheap points for the rabble.

It is always tiresome when some choose to sideline folks who are being passionate about a given film's release in evaluating its quality by trying to paint them in an unfair light just because they can be detached from their enthusiasm for a film and being objective on the qualities of the release.

I have been a cinemaphile much of my life, even went to film school for goodness sakes and have my precious hard won BA thank you very much, and I own possibly too many movies on various formats and do so because I love and enjoy this method and art form of storytelling.

Does this make me more of a fan than another?
No, it does mean that I at least have deeper background of understanding of the art form than some others. I do not read into the fine minutiae that say GeoffD's does with a lot of the more technical aspects of the production of the medium.
-It does not harm my feelings to defer to someone who is more knowledgeable than myself on a given topic and the great things is there are plenty of folks in this community who have greater knowledge about numerous thing who contribute and share, thus enriching the discussion.

My production experience has been more digital based for small indy stuff and more film theory than production over the years.

Even I can have my critical eye be blinded by the new bright and shiny with a film I really love but with some time to ruminant and subsequent viewings I typically will start to see the imperfections.

Anyhow, my comments, when not being inane or snarky, are meant to contribute to the community to have an informed discussion and be moderately objective based rather than just pathos riddled positive praise.

I will continue to enjoy the LOTR movies and also be irked by the weird choices of adding yet another pass of DNR to a previously DNRed source.

It is indeed possible to both love a film and be critical of the quality of the product at the same time. It is not a zero-sum scenario unless you choose to make so.

YMMV.

[nick4Knight]

You liked the post where the guy posted a Patton screenshot... Something which happened after you introduced that title into the thread. Which got locked right after those posts that stemmed from yours.

How can that be claimed that a centrist positive mindset like mine contributed to a locked thread? Mental gymnastics.

[nick4Knight]

Originally Posted by Tlen

Ahah you got a percentage over the revenue?

I care about this format. I don't give two shits about LOTR sales only, with this position. I have a global position of not letting minor drawbacks of releases defining the release to the detriment of 4K UHD sales. The last 2 pages of the locked thread read like this release is objectively bad. There is that much dogpiling activity from bitter users.

Hence why it got locked. I would say.

[KMFDMvsEnya]

Really grasping at straws there.

I never said anything about why the thread was locked but evidently there are some mental gymnastics being played here to draw such an unfounded and out of the thin air rationale.

I am disinclined to speculate what the Mods have chosen to do other than it appears most if not all my recent posts remain. So perhaps I did not overstep anything.

[Tlen]

Originally Posted by nick4Knight

I have a global position of not letting minor drawbacks of releases defining the release to the detriment of 4K UHD sales.

Damm, you're crazy man, not centrist, seriously.

You have a severe Napoleon syndrome.

I suggest you go to a very good analyst.

For me is over and out with you.

[Mierzwiak]

Originally Posted by jonmoz

I don't know if this has been asked but do the theatrical and extended Blu-ray's have the newer transfers, or are they the same discs available for ages now, the main reason for this is the extended Blu-ray discs had a better picture, but the green tint ruined the overall experience.

There are no Blu-ray discs in the new release, it's 4K only.

Remastered Blu-rays of LOTR trilogy will be released next year.

[kidglov3s]

It's disappointing to see some of the things that have been pointed out. I hate to think they took extra liberties because they are in some ways severely compromised works as early digital productions. I enjoyed watching what I have watched (FOTR and ROTK TC, TTT EE), but I did give a lot of leeway in my reception towards softness, given that large portions of these movies imo have always looked like garbage d/t the post production.

Until another release comes along the Fellowship discs can be pried from my cold dead hands before I would go back to the prior releases.

[nick4Knight]

Originally Posted by Tlen

For me is over and out with you.

No? Please. And after I just learned you were another human on Earth. I'm gonna regret speaking my mind after this consequence.

[BluAsa97]

I'm quite surprised, why the other one has been closed? There were some intresting things on that thread

[Batman90]

So got my Collectors set and disc 1 of EE Fellowship is scratched and both EE discs of Two Towers are scratched on the edges. Tried to clean them off but no luck.

[Ysvsr1]

Just now watched fellowship extended version. I have no expertise to comment on all video and audio merits, but some shots are not looking good especially long shots and aerial shots. Few shots are like watching low quality tv show. Strangely I feel fairy tale feel is lost in 4k. But as others mentioned, it will be 10-20% of total output. Still it hurts as a die hard fan of these movies and unit’s hardwork. 4k team should be fired and wb can do much better. I thought of upgrading to next year monster set but now I will keep my blu ray extended set and revisit 4k set whenever I want to watch. Buying in target sale and selling digital copies definitely soften my tone. People who spent 90-120$..sorry for you..best of luck in next revision of our beloved movies.

[Ysvsr1]

Originally Posted by Batman90

So got my Collectors set and disc 1 of EE Fellowship is scratched and both EE discs of Two Towers are scratched on the edges. Tried to clean them off but no luck.

Fellowship extended version second disc stopped at 5:50. I had to restart the player to get it played again.

[TitusTroy]

so Shane from SpareChange was right about the LOTR transfer ...this forum loves to nitpick and put down respected review sites (Bill Hunt)...must be some sort of jealousy involved that they don't have the insider contacts