The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly 4K UHD (1966)

[dbailey100]

Originally Posted by Pyoko

Looking back at it the very first 2K restoration of Fistful by Ripley's from way back in 2007 is still by far the best-looking version of any of these. Good sharpness, nice grain, blue skies, white plaster buildings that aren't completely blown out. In fact the it's the only one that seems even remotely competent all-around. What I wouldn't give for a trilogy release that looked like this even if just on regular old Blu-ray.

A Fistful of Dollars - The Good (Ripley's restoration.)
For a Few Dollars More - The Bad (Not a single decent transfer so far.)
The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly - The Ugly (Nice 4K scan, ugly colors.)

Here's an idea: If studios can't get the colors right, why can't they hire the folks who have put out fan restorations?

Personally I feel about this 4K release.

[Bates_Motel]

Originally Posted by Purploros

Arrow would be the crème de la crème.

They're the only company left that would get the color grading right. They fixed other green-tint Ritrovata titles before, like Tree of Wooden Clogs.

[dbailey100]

All Stanley Kubrick's movies should have been released in 1.33:1, no exceptions and no film historian / expert /aficionado opinions count.

MisterLime, MisterLime, MisterLime, MisterLime, MisterLime.

Perhaps Kino should just release the corrected 2017 Blu Ray with mono track only and not bother with the 4K until a proper theatrical HDR DV version is done?

Humbug!

[Wtdk]

Yes! I had given up hope.

[Spartan21]

Originally Posted by Dailyan

Kino's Blu of FaFDM was a big disappointment imo. It's a shame that all three transfers (MGM, Mondo, and Kino) have their own problematic filtering.

I think of the Kino FaFDM as good but can be better. It's not a disappointment in my opinion.

[Xephix]

I'm sure the colour correction will be very good. They are likely using the uncompressed high resolution source, so more can be done than some guy on his computer colour correcting the Blu-ray using Davinci Resolve. Not perfect but will be much better than the 2017 release.

[Dek Rollins]

Originally Posted by Purploros

Unfortunately, the one I settled on, a reconstruction of the Italian cut with English audio, was only briefly available; I’d just happened to have stumbled upon it at the right time

That would be mine, yes? (It's available again btw)

It depends on whether one prefers the extended cut, which is the film’s equivalent of the Star Wars special editions.

I don't know if I would say that. The extended cut of GBU isn't really comparable to the Star Wars SEs in my opinion. One was conceptually revisionist (despite George's claims about his "original vision") and made massive alterations to films that had only ever been presented in one form previously (ignoring the initial 70mm version of Empire and the 1981 "A New Hope" crawl replacement in Star Wars), while the other was at least an honest attempt to recreate the original Rome premiere (despite failing in many respects, and of course there have been revisionist changes to the sound mix).

I hope the new extensive color correction fixed the horribly destroyed color on the 4K master so the shadows aren't all crushed into a nasty green.

It's pretty stupid that they're leaving their """theatrical""" version as it was on the 2017 disc. I probably wouldn't watch the shorter cut very much anyway, but I don't even have any inclination to watch it if it's still not the actual international theatrical cut and without fixed color. Couldn't they just re-edit the new extended version to match the US theatrical cut? Of course there are some unique elements that would need to be substituted, but the majority of the film should be doable, right?

[Farerb]

This release is going to be in SDR.

[johnpaul2]

Originally Posted by Bates_Motel

I've re-graded the entire MGM disc shot by shot, and even so, there are some that are so damaged by blown highlights that original detail couldn't be pulled back in. The final shot of the film is one huge instance. And if blacks crush out detail completely, then you can't get that back. So it IS hard to work with a botched master in some cases.

Of course it is. Several labels who color-corrected restorations from Ritrovata explained that it was clearly way easier to get the color-grading right in the first place than having to dial down their signature. Once it's there, there are things that simply are baked in and that you won't be able to be removed without creating other issues, especially, indeed, at the extremities of the spectrum ie highlights and blacks.

[Fat Phil]

Originally Posted by Dailyan

Kino's Blu of FaFDM was a big disappointment imo. It's a shame that all three transfers (MGM, Mondo, and Kino) have their own problematic filtering.

I didn't even know Kino had released FaFDM but I just checked out the comparisons and yup.....That ain't better than the German disc.

[captainsolo]

I must admit first seeing the announcement made me think Kino was doubling down on the previous disc.

There was a lot of bad blood during that time and there didn’t need to be. What infuriated me was the official label response being to attempt to trivialize, discredit and outright ignore those of us who simply hoped for a proper release of these titles which have had longstanding and seemingly never ending issues throughout their release history. What capped it off was when they even insulted the German team who went out of their way to make the only reconstructed version of FAFDM anywhere in the world.

That being said if there is a way to correct the massive color issues of the source Ritrovata master then this could work. A new BD with properly rendered legacy extras would also help. However it still doesn’t bode well from a historical perspective as the release indicates the MGM “extended version” as being the default which is still highly contested in Leone scholar circles. The “theatrical cut” was previously based on the 1998 mgm video master which is not entirely accurate to the release version.
Both versions should be properly presented in 4k with original mono-but it should be understood that MGM’s extended cut is based on the longest cut shown at the Rome premiere. Leone himself made changes for the Italian release. Then there were further changes to get to the 161 min international cut for United Artists.
Also you cannot simply scan one source and use that to make the shorter version again. There are differences between the Italian and US version in terms of edits, shots and the like.

Thus a proper release would contain:
-Italian release version-premiere cut with the grotto scene as branching option to recreate the Rome premiere longest edition. Italian mono and a hybrid English mono option.
-1966 international release version with English mono.

MGM muddied the waters with their mixing of prints and making new cuts over the years and this was further compounded by varying editions and restorations across many countries. Proper scholarship and research is vital to these titles. No one Leone film has a truly great definitive Blu-ray release. None of them.
The closest you come is Colossus of Rhodes but WAC only had the English language cut. OUATIA is missing the original mono and now favors an oddly color timed extended version that really doesn’t have any evidence as being intended over the 229m version. OUATITW looks ok but still has incorrect music cues and the mono has never been restored. Plus the foreign versions have differentiations. Duck You Sucker has multiple masters all with issues.
Fistful of Dollars has had several restorations now and at least is very good on the Ripley/German releases. FAFDM was better on the Kino but had issues and was left in the compromised edit state because the missing pieces gathered by the German team were left out.

At this point there’s nowhere to go but up. We can only improve from here on out so it’s a wait and see game. Kino really infuriated me with the way they handled this situation before. I didn’t even so much mind the final result as I’m used to Leone titles being fubared. So far there seem to be some concessions to what went wrong before which is helpful but I must admit to being extremely wary as always with these specific films.

Someone asked earlier why mgm didn’t do fancier work on Fistful-it’s because mgm never owned the full rights or had the negative as they do on the other Dollars films. All video editions up to the modern era on the film thus were based around interpositives or other US held elements.

I wish someday we could get the published Leone scholars to weigh in on these issues. I’ve been researching and trying to sort this out since first writing into mgm back in 2003.

[Purploros]

Originally Posted by Dek Rollins

That would be mine, yes? (It's available again btw)

Yes! That’s good to hear

[Pyoko]

Originally Posted by captainsolo

Someone asked earlier why mgm didn’t do fancier work on Fistful-it’s because mgm never owned the full rights or had the negative as they do on the other Dollars films. All video editions up to the modern era on the film thus were based around interpositives or other US held elements.

MGM has the negatives for the other two? Why the heck did they bother to send TGTBTU over to be pissed on by Ritrovata then?

I guess maybe it's true the Kino FAFDM is from OCN in that case, but that just kind of makes it even less impressive.

[Maximux]

count me in for this one!

[Pecker]

So, if Arrow or Second Sight got hold if this, what are the chances that’s ask for, and get, the original 4K scan?

Because let’s face it, that’s what’s needed.

[Pyoko]

Originally Posted by Pecker

So, if Arrow or Second Sight got hold if this, what are the chances that’s ask for, and get, the original 4K scan?

Because let’s face it, that’s what’s needed.

Maybe they'd be able to get it under the pretext of doing a new HDR/Dolby Vision grade? Or maybe Ritrovata would just insist on doing it themselves, but I don't think this was one of their promoted tentpole restorations with Cannes showings etc. like Fistful was.

[Krynoid-Man]

It's a shame about the lack of HDR, but if the colour timing is an improvement over the previous releases then it'll probably be a must buy for me.

[The Great Owl]

I’m one of the five people who love the most recent Kino Lorber Blu-ray release, but I’m still in like Flynn for the upcoming 4K UHD.

This is one of my top 10 all-time favorite movies.

[Streamingsux]

So...just to be perfectly clear, from what we know so far, the included blu ray of the theatrical version is going to be EXACTLY the same as the theatrical disc from Kino's last release?

I misunderstood if they're saying that they're doing color correction on the extended 4K or the theatrical blu ray....or both? Or if they're just fixing some issues with some of the extras (which I really don't give a whiff about, personally...but, for those who DO, I hope those issues get fixed).

My buying this depends on improvements to the theatrical blu ray. I don't care for the longer version. They really should BOTH be UHDs. HDR or no HDR. But I'll take what I can get..

[Poya]

Is there any reason for this not to have HDR when the other Kino releases have it? Guess we’ll have to find out.