British Film Institute (BFI) Discussion Thread

[koberulz]

Is the Lon Chaney doc on the 1925 Phantom Blu a victim of speedup, or is a TV production that was 25fps to begin with?

[stepeanut]

Originally Posted by Thewanderingfox

Does anyone know if Caravaggio comes with a booklet? I opened my newly bought disc and didn't find one. I knew BFI were only limiting booklets to first printings of their newer releases as of a few months ago but I didn't think Caravaggio would have been included.

I don’t believe the standalone BD came with a booklet.

The old DVD edition did:

[blujazz]

Apparently there’s going to be a new restoration of NAPOLEON - wonder what the difference would be?

[xiiidan]

Originally Posted by blujazz

Apparently there’s going to be a new restoration of NAPOLEON - wonder what the difference would be?

The press release I saw from La Cinémathèque Française, Netflix, and CNC mentioned it having a seven-hour runtime and, "Finishing it." I've only ever known of it being 5-and-a-half hours long, do they mean they're literally 'finishing' the film somehow? I know it ends abruptly as it was the first film in an intended series.

[fatboyslim142]

Originally Posted by xiiidan

The press release I saw from La Cinémathèque Française, Netflix, and CNC mentioned it having a seven-hour runtime and, "Finishing it." I've only ever known of it being 5-and-a-half hours long, do they mean they're literally 'finishing' the film somehow? I know it ends abruptly as it was the first film in an intended series.

Isn't this supposed to be the Francis Ford Coppola restoration?

[Thewanderingfox]

Originally Posted by stepeanut

I don’t believe the standalone BD came with a booklet.

The old DVD edition did:

Thanks. I was wondering if there was a mistake but I suppose the BFI may not have included the booklet because it was previously part of the Jarman box set.

[_Ewan_]

Does the BFI still have the rights to Woman of the Dunes? Or any of the other Hiroshi Teshigahara titles? Would be great to see them on Blu-Ray.

[koberulz]

I come with more dumb questions about silent movies!

1925 Phantom of the Opera, specifically.

Someone in the Kino thread linked to a web page explaining about all the different versions, but a) I no longer have the link on hand and b) it was frankly overwhelming and confusing anyway.

But the main takeaway seemed to be that the 1929 version is, with the exception of one reel, lost, and that everything is the 1925 version, but from different original sources which may or may not have had various stuff cut into them.

So...specifically on the BFI, since that's what I have, what's what here? It has a "play film" button which plays the film, but then has the 1925 version as an extra?

So what exactly plays when I press the main "play film" button? It can't be the 1929, as that's lost, right? Why is the 1925 version an extra on the Blu-ray of the 1925 version, anyway? Why is it not the other way around?

[oddbox83]

That might have been one of my posts. You’ve got it a bit confused, but it does have a complicated history with several different versions.

Basically, 2 versions survive in full. The 1925 wide cinema release as various poor quality 16mm prints and a superior quality 1929 silent version on 35mm. This 1929 version is a hybrid between the 1925 version and talkie reissue (but is closer to the 1925 version), no one has found out conclusively why it was made or what it was intended for, just conjecture. You’re right a single reel of the talkie version has survived, and it shows it to be quite a different beast to the surviving ‘29 silent version.

As an added difference, the ‘29 version shows slightly different angles, either different takes or, as was often the case with silents, two cameras shootings at once to make an A negative and a B negative

There were other cuts of the ‘25 version as well as Technicolor and hand painted sequences, not all of which survived and different restorations do things differently, but best not get into that here!

On the BFI disc the main feature is the ‘29 silent version (Photoplay restoration) and a HD scan of a 16mm print for the extra 1925 version.

[koberulz]

Ah, so there were two reissues in 1929, one talkie and one silent?

[oddbox83]

Originally Posted by koberulz

Ah, so there were two reissues in 1929, one talkie and one silent?

Possibly.

We know the talkie reissue was screened. As I say, the silent 1929 version is more of a mystery. I’m not aware of anyone finding definitive proof of what it was intended for.

[koberulz]

Okay, I'll rephrase.

There are two 1929 versions, one talkie and one silent?

[oddbox83]

Originally Posted by koberulz

Okay, I'll rephrase.

There are two 1929 versions, one talkie and one silent?

Yes.

[koberulz]

I see.

Is there one in particular you would recommend watching first, out of the two on the BFI disc?

[oddbox83]

I’d go with the main ‘29 version.

[tenderheartbear]

There's a commentary by Scott MacQueen which explains in some depth the different versions. He talks about the original 1925 version, as well as the 1929 reissue version (which I believe the commentary is on) and about the talkie version and various colour variations.

It's available on YouTube (although unofficially I'd imagine).

[rapta]

Originally Posted by _Ewan_

Does the BFI still have the rights to Woman of the Dunes? Or any of the other Hiroshi Teshigahara titles? Would be great to see them on Blu-Ray.

Not sure, but I'm with you on this. Can't think why we've not had any Teshigahara on Blu-ray yet other than Antonio Gaudí. Would make sense to try and do a box set of Woman of the Dunes along with Face of Another and Pitfall (not least so I can upgrade my DVDs)!

[koberulz]

Originally Posted by tenderheartbear

There's a commentary by Scott MacQueen which explains in some depth the different versions. He talks about the original 1925 version, as well as the 1929 reissue version (which I believe the commentary is on) and about the talkie version and various colour variations.

It's available on YouTube (although unofficially I'd imagine).

Odd, it doesn't seem to appear on any disc release.

But I'm disinclined to watch commentaries before I've actually watched the film, so that's not a particularly helpful thing anyway - as much as it might be worth looking into once I have seen it.

[fatboyslim142]

Originally Posted by CelestialAgent

£21 plus postage, but that seems quite unusual compared to the prices that are usually offered. So for about the same price as a new copy of the rerelease it makes sense. But I’ve had a saved search for the better part of a year and it’s only this auction that has been a reasonable price.

Looking at previous emails from my saved search

26/07 - auction beginning at £81
01/10 - auction beginning at £49.99

Looking at current listings

auction beginning at £45 (used)
buy it now new and sealed at £79.99

On the website watchcount, you can find that it sold for £29.99 used three days ago, £27.99 new and sealed last month (don’t know how I missed that one?) and a staggering £162 new and sealed 70 days ago.

Personally, I think it’s completely disgusting to profit off the Holocaust, although it is within a seller’s right to scalp or not to scalp or follow market value.

Looking through the booklet, there’s actually a paragraph or two arguing against claiming it as a Hitchcock film (he had very little involvement.)

Thanks. How can you tell the difference between the first pressing & the re-release one?

[jayembee]

Originally Posted by fatboyslim142

Thanks. How can you tell the difference between the first pressing & the re-release one?

Catalog number, for one, cover design for two.

Original (BFIB1272):

Re-Release (BFIB1368):