The Last of Us Part 2 - PS5

[Todd Smith]

Originally Posted by Vincanws

TLOU 2 is arguably the most impressive game on PS4 visually, but the graphics could definitely be improved with ray traced shadows, lighting and /or reflections. And of course the 60fps and dynamic variable 4K as opposed locking 1440p. I don’t want ND to rest on their laurels. TLOU2 looks great, but can they improve it more with a PS5 upgrade? That I’d like to see.

Definitely. I'm waiting for 60fps in particular before playing this game.

[kuzronk]

The first game did a bit better but it's also dirt cheap now as a Playstation Hits, was also bundled with PS4s years ago.

[Gremal]

Originally Posted by Gremal

Sony and Naughty Dog knew they'd get all the males back for TLOU2 on the strength of the first game, and they seemed to make a calculated effort to get more females into gaming by forcing gameplay into purely female characters. Thus, it's not about ART but about MARKETING.

Another example of it being about tapping the female market: Uncharted: Lost Legacy. Abandoning Drake in favor of the female characters. Is there any doubt this was a calculated effort by ND/Sony?

[Member-115369]

Originally Posted by Pi905

You're definitely in denial about people liking this game and only want to accept facts that will help feed your negative opinion. The Last of Us: Part II has the most Game of the Year awards (some of which were player voted), ever, and to say that amounts to nothing is both ridiculous and undermines literally every award in every facet. Might as well toss Olympic Golds and Purple Hearts since they don't matter either. Stark was right, talking to you is a waste of time.

Yeah it's just a divisive game, but it's not something only critics loved. It won a ton of players/reader's choice awards too.

It's just something some people loved and other's hated, much like the Star Wars sequel trilogy. Some people hated what they did to beloved characters, others loved them. Some loved the female leads, added diversity and then you have other groups that hate all stuff and think it's "pandering to SJWs" or whatever.

I've learned to largely just stay out of online discussion about stuff like that as the back and forth gets exhausting in general, and especially on these kind of hot topic games or movies or whatever. End of the day I like what I like and no one's opinion, much less randos online, is going to sway that nor do I feel any need to try to get people to like things I don't or vice versa. I like plenty of things that are well received by fans and critics, but also dislike plenty of that stuff and like things that score lower. End of the day everyone has their own preferences and hobbies are meant to be fun and that's maximized by just enjoying what you like, skipping/dropping what you don't and avoiding pointless online ranting over subjective opinions.

[tcripe]

Originally Posted by dmaul1114

Yeah it's just a divisive game, but it's not something only critics loved. It won a ton of players/reader's choice awards too.

You have obviously never been on The Last of Us 2 reddit page lol

[Gremal]

Originally Posted by dmaul1114

Yeah it's just a divisive game, but it's not something only critics loved. It won a ton of players/reader's choice awards too.

It's just something some people loved and other's hated, much like the Star Wars sequel trilogy. Some people hated what they did to beloved characters, others loved them. Some loved the female leads, added diversity and then you have other groups that hate all stuff and think it's "pandering to SJWs" or whatever.

I've learned to largely just stay out of online discussion about stuff like that as the back and forth gets exhausting in general, and especially on these kind of hot topic games or movies or whatever. End of the day I like what I like and no one's opinion, much less randos online, is going to sway that nor do I feel any need to try to get people to like things I don't or vice versa. I like plenty of things that are well received by fans and critics, but also dislike plenty of that stuff and like things that score lower. End of the day everyone has their own preferences and hobbies are meant to be fun and that's maximized by just enjoying what you like, skipping/dropping what you don't and avoiding pointless online ranting over subjective opinions.

Believe it or not, there is a wealth of productive discussion to be had in the immense area between love and hate. If polarizing emotions are all you can discuss, no wonder you "just stay out of online discussion" -- but you say this and keep NOT staying out of it. Frankly, drunks are the only ones who talk about love and hate as much as you. That is not going to lead to productive discussion. There are things for everyone to enjoy about TLOU2 for sure--the improved graphics, different types of infected, enemy AI and other elements of gameplay being the obvious ones. But denying the letdown felt by many fans of the first game of having Joel die early and excizing any male character to control certainly invites criticism and should not be verboten. And to repeat, the decisions to focus on female characters are a clear MARKETING effort made by Sony and ND that go beyond just this one game to increase sales by tapping female customers.

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

Your expectations are not the same as everyone else's.

That's tautological, and not addressing anything I've said.

I always assumed that Joel wouldn't be the main character of the sequel. The first game was clearly a story about Ellie told from Joel's point of view. The sequel being from Ellie's point of view was a logical progression.

Ellie's point of view was well represented in the first game and the player even gets to control her in act 2 of the game.

Adding another playable character wasn't particularly unexpected either. It fits the atmosphere of the world they built, and it also fits the title of the series: The Last of Us. I never had the expectation that the entire series would revolve around Joel and Ellie.

Then why even name it The Last of Us? That's synonymous with Joel and Ellie. Even in killing off Joel, ND knew this would be a problem and had to build in many flashback sequences involving Joel.

[JayTL]

Are we comparing total sales/plays for a game thats 7 years old to one that's less than a year old?

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

Your expectations are not the same as everyone else's.

I always assumed that Joel wouldn't be the main character of the sequel. The first game was clearly a story about Ellie told from Joel's point of view. The sequel being from Ellie's point of view was a logical progression.

Also, Joel was barely in any marketing for Part 2. In fact

[Show spoiler]The first trailer hits, and people we're already speculating that Joel was dead.

[Gremal]

I agree with your post above to some extent, good points.

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

The gender of the playable characters should never affect anyone's enjoyment of a game one way or another.

Why not? And what if gender does honestly effect players' enjoyment of the game? Not allowed to say so without being labelled something insulting? Purely in terms of variability and appealing to most of the players, one would find your statement unrealistic on the face of it because enjoyment in story mode depends on being able to relate to the character you're controlling. The popularity of the first game was built on people forming an emotional bond with the characters.

[Member-115369]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

The gender of the playable characters should never affect anyone's enjoyment of a game one way or another.

Agreed. Unfortunately a lot of incels, hypermasculinity etc. in the gamer community that leads to lots of, IMO, stupid complaining when playable characters are women, whining about forced diversity when games feature women and non-whites etc. Have seen some pretty disgusting comments about the diverse cast in Destruction All Stars on a few places recently. Makes people easy targets to through on ignore lists at least and easy to leave communities with too many of those types.

[DragonOfTheBlackPool]

Originally Posted by dmaul1114

Agreed. Unfortunately a lot of incels, hypermasculinity etc. in the gamer community that leads to lots of, IMO, stupid complaining when playable characters are women, whining about forced diversity when games feature women and non-whites etc. Have seen some pretty disgusting comments about the diverse cast in Destruction All Stars on a few places recently. Makes people easy targets to through on ignore lists at least and easy to leave communities with too many of those types.

You say “lots”, but it’s a very small minority overall. The pendulum swings both ways however and there is a percentage of equally toxic defenders of this game too. I’ve seen a lot of people post pretty well thought out explanations as to why they did not like this game (on multiple forums), only to be called sexist or “you didn’t understand the game”, amongst other things. They’re basically labeled by people who can’t intelligently discuss a difference of opinion, something that is quite apparent in this thread.

[Member-115369]

Originally Posted by DragonOfTheBlackPool

You say “lots”, but it’s a very small minority overall. The pendulum swings both ways however and there is a percentage of equally toxic defenders of this game too. I’ve seen a lot of people post pretty well thought out explanations as to why they did not like this game (on multiple forums), only to be called sexist or “you didn’t understand the game”, amongst other things. They’re basically labeled by people who can’t intelligently discuss a difference of opinion, something that is quite apparent in this thread.

True. It's more just that it's a vocal minority on both sides that make the gaming community on many forums, Reddit etc. insufferable.

Not so much lots of people in terms of the overall people posting, just too many of the most frequent and vocal posters who drive discussion on forums and social media are on either extreme. And it drives dialogue more and more as the many of the rest of it long since just said **** it and don't engage in those types of conversations anymore.

Just not worth the time and effort. I either liked the game/movie/whatever or I didn't. I'd rather just move on to the next thing and not waste energy arguing with folks when it's a game/movie that riles up people on both extremes.

[JayTL]

Originally Posted by DragonOfTheBlackPool

You say “lots”, but it’s a very small minority overall. The pendulum swings both ways however and there is a percentage of equally toxic defenders of this game too. I’ve seen a lot of people post pretty well thought out explanations as to why they did not like this game (on multiple forums), only to be called sexist or “you didn’t understand the game”, amongst other things. They’re basically labeled by people who can’t intelligently discuss a difference of opinion, something that is quite apparent in this thread.

I did my time after getting into arguments defending this game. Not once did I ever see someone being critical of the game legitimately and call them names/say they didn't understand it.

Just wanted to come in and defend myself lol.

[DragonOfTheBlackPool]

Originally Posted by dmaul1114

Just not worth the time and effort. I either liked the game/movie/whatever or I didn't. I'd rather just move on to the next thing and not waste energy arguing with folks when it's a game/movie that riles up people on both extremes.

I’m willing to have a discussion, but there is a point when you realize that it’s going nowhere and it’s time to bow out. Overall, I have the same outlook as you.

Originally Posted by JayTL

I did my time after getting into arguments defending this game. Not once did I ever see someone being critical of the game legitimately and call them names/say they didn't understand it.

Just wanted to come in and defend myself lol.

All good!

There were quite a few posts by people explaining why they did not like Abby, or more specifically her involvement in the game, that had nothing to do with the way she looks or any of that nonsense only to be met with the aforementioned responses. There was plenty of it in the TLOUS2 PS4 thread. Maybe they got deleted but you can probably still find some if you scroll through. I remember reading plenty of it myself.

[Gremal]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

I don't know why people think Joel is far more relatable than Abby. They both

[Show spoiler]have lost loved ones, done terrible things, and find purpose again by protecting a child.

Isn't it obvious? Right away at the beginning of TLoU, and the gameplay does a great job with getting the player to be empathetic with Joel. It then slowly, meticulously and painstakingly builds the relationship between Joel and Ellie until they have a legit father/daughter type of sacred bond where Ellie filled the void in Joel's life, bringing the story full circle.

TLOU2 doesn't explore Abby's motivation to murder Joel until later. So she's less relatable by design right from the start. And even after her motivation is revealed it seems gimmicky and manipulative. Murdering a bunch of adults to save an innocent child is a lot easier to understand than hunting down the guy who saved the child, especially given the backstory. So from the perspective of the games, it's a basic fact that Abby is less relatable. That extends to her instinct to turn her back on her companions and protect her new friends. There was no real motivation or build-up to that. It seemed like a sudden decision, especially contrasted with the way Joel's motivation to protect Ellie was built in to the first game.

[Gremal]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

All of the characters in The Last of Us are murderers who have killed innocent people. That makes them bad people but it most certainly does not make them bad characters. It's just the specific person she murdered that caused people to dislike Abby.

Well, they're in a kill-or-be-killed world. If they aren't willing to err on the side of violence, they aren't going to last long, and that's easy to understand about the games. But I'm referring more to how the plot is developed in a way that builds empathy for Joel and a lack of empathy for Abby before she is thrust in as the main character. I don't see how that lack of empathy is at all a controversial thing to point out. To make it even more pronounced, the game has Abby saved by Joel just before she murders him with a golf club! I mean, it's begging for you to be pro-Joel and anti-Abby.

[The Collector FX]

The Last of Us 2's heavy handed "revenge is bad" philosophy, on top of Joel and Tommy's character personality/rationale being polar opposite in the sequel when compared to the original, is why most people hate it. Narratively speaking - it's a stupid game that subconsciously nags players about it's forced philosophy.

Abby's unnatural physique (even in video game standards) did itself no favors other than fuel the meme machine. The fact that an un-interactable NPC doctor who had a whole 2 seconds of screen time in the original, and his daughter being the driving plot device is just lazy ass writing, and when fans found out it was this nonsensical character that kills Joel...well...we all know how that was received.

Gamers weren't "threatened" or any of that nonsense by Abby's character. If people legitimately thought like this, Alien, Aliens, Kill Bill, Horizon Zero Dawn, Metroid, and countless other pop culture movies/games would have been at the receivng end of the same ire as TLO2.

But guess what? They didn't. Why? Because they were well written with engaging female leads that ALL audiences could enjoy without a forced underlying message being droned on its audience.

The Last of Us 2 is just plain bad. It's as simple as that.

[emailking]

The Last of Us is unquestionably art even if you don't like it at all. I think most if not all video games would qualify as art.

Really hope this does get an upgrade like God of War. I don't get why they haven't said anything yet.

Originally Posted by The Collector FX

The Last of Us 2 is just plain bad. It's as simple as that.

That sounds like an opinion stated as fact, lol.

[The Collector FX]

Originally Posted by emailking

The Last of Us is unquestionably art even if you don't like it at all. I think most if not all video games would qualify as art.


That sounds like an opinion stated as fact, lol.

"The Last of Us is unquestionably art even if you don't like it at all"

Lawl. Double standards much?

[Gremal]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

That's the point. It forces people to challenge their preconceived notions by painting Abby as a killer first and then explaining her motivations and providing the rest of her story.

What's the challenge? It's fine if Abby is a killer but more specifically she is an assassin and her target is Joel. Normally an assassin would rethink their motivation after being saved by their target. Abby doesn't hesitate, and her use of golf club to maximize Joel's pain and suffering after he had just saved her is not challenging anyone. She's shown for exactly the kind of person she is. Later, she turns on her own crew and becomes a turncoat. She has no honor, decency or loyalty, so of course she comes to regret her targeting of Joel--far too late of course. For this badly telegraphed lesson that murder is wrong and revenge is destructive we were robbed of Joel in the gameplay.

[emailking]

Originally Posted by The Collector FX

"The Last of Us is unquestionably art even if you don't like it at all"

Lawl. Double standards much?

I don't think so.

Based on the first trailer (which is when I stopped consuming any new information before it was released) I assumed Ellie would be the main playable character. But before that I wouldn't have guessed that.