HDTVTEST (Vincent Teoh) Discussion Thread - Page 56 - Blu-ray Forum

Geoff D · 08-15-2021, 02:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Auditor55

4,000 nits, Samsung is about to crush the competition.

Crush is right, they'll probably have to obliterate the black level to maintain proper contrast with all them nits. Samsung be like "PQ EOTF? We don't need to follow no stinkin' EOTF!"

wxman2003 · 08-15-2021, 03:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Auditor55

4,000 nits, Samsung is about to crush the competition.

4000 nits? Where did you pull that out of his video? It's 4K 1000 nit OLED, not 4000 nits. Of course, that's in vivid mode. Won't be any brighter than Sony, if that.

Staying Salty · 08-15-2021, 04:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wxman2003

4000 nits? Where did you pull that out of his video? It's 4K 1000 nit OLED, not 4000 nits. Of course, that's in vivid mode.

For Samsung, that mode will be known as "Creator's Intent".

Auditor55 · 08-15-2021, 05:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Crush is right, they'll probably have to obliterate the black level to maintain proper contrast with all them nits. Samsung be like "PQ EOTF? We don't need to follow no stinkin' EOTF!"

See you're talking about performance, I'm talking about sales. You and I both know people around here are in love with nits. Samsung is going to blow every one away with a 4,000 nit OLED, all other OLED displays will be perceived as terribly dim by comparison.

Geoff D · 08-15-2021, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Auditor55

See you're talking about performance, I'm talking about sales. You and I both know people around here are in love with nits. Samsung is going to blow every one away with a 4,000 nit OLED, all other OLED displays will be perceived as terribly dim by comparison.

Oh. Sales. In that case, Samsung still have one of the biggest market shares in the TV business so they’ve already been “crushing” the competition for years i.e. a “4000 nit” TV wouldn’t make much difference to that.

DDH · 08-15-2021, 11:12 AM

My post has nothing to do here.

Auditor55 · 08-15-2021, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Oh. Sales. In that case, Samsung still have one of the biggest market shares in the TV business so they’ve already been “crushing” the competition for years i.e. a “4000 nit” TV wouldn’t make much difference to that.

In OLED, they don't have OLEDs right now. I believe QD-OLED is going beat, smash the other OLED manufacturers.

I DO BLU · 08-15-2021, 05:49 PM

wxman2003 · 08-15-2021, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Auditor55

In OLED, they don't have OLEDs right now. I believe QD-OLED is going beat, smash the other OLED manufacturers.

How? It's sure isn't 4000 nits like you said. 1000 nits on a good day in their infamous vivid mode. Panasonic had that beaten since 2018, and Sony this year. 1000 nits, so yesterday.

I DO BLU · 08-19-2021, 04:16 PM

I DO BLU · 08-21-2021, 04:13 PM

I DO BLU · 08-26-2021, 06:16 PM

I DO BLU · 09-01-2021, 01:10 PM

I DO BLU · 09-05-2021, 05:39 PM

gkolb · 09-06-2021, 02:21 AM

If these PJ’s can process HDR10+, I wonder why they wouldn’t take Player-led Dolby Vision?

I DO BLU · 09-06-2021, 03:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gkolb

If these PJ’s can process HDR10+, I wonder why they wouldn’t take Player-led Dolby Vision?

At 7:20 he discusses why and says light output is not high enough for dolby vision specs.

gkolb · 09-06-2021, 04:04 AM

Weird. How do they handle Sony Light Canon assaults?

I DO BLU · 09-06-2021, 06:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gkolb

Weird. How do they handle Sony Light Canon assaults?

https://avgadgets.com/dolby-vision-a...nd-the-future/

I DO BLU · 09-06-2021, 06:16 PM

Geoff D · 09-07-2021, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I DO BLU

https://avgadgets.com/dolby-vision-a...nd-the-future/

Huh. Strange how Dolby apparently mandate that a display must hit 1000 nits when plenty of the earlier DV-capable OLEDs didn't get anywhere close, I mean the UHDA even created that two-tier "UHDA Premium Certification" to deal with that exact scenario. Hell, in Dolby's own user guides for Dolby Vision they state that a 600-nit HDR trim pass is always recommended when creating the suites of metadata because that's the most likely output scenario for the average consumer. Double huh.

I'm not sure that nits nits nits are the problem so I call bullshit on that, seeing as the entire point of consumer Dolby Vision is to create a version which works to preserve creative intent on a display that *doesn't* meet the specs of the source grade. (And the theatrical EDR grades for Dolby Cinema are 108 nits anyway.)

But the article does cover the most salient point: Dolby Vision is based around knowing what the specs of the display are (more or less, as they've done away with the pre-loaded 'golden reference') but you cannot guarantee the performance of a projektor in itself because it's not a direct view system, the screen being used can greatly affect said performance. Without being able to certificate the two things in tandem - and even then the treatment of the specific viewing room could still a play a part - then they cannot program in what the DV 'specs' should be. Pity that no-one's thought to put together some sort of Dolby certified package, but then would x screen be what y consumer is looking for? Would they have to build in a raft of DV modes for different screens? What if you buy a DV projektor but your favourite screen isn't supported? That's the thing about custom installs, the clue is in the name.

Sure, Dolby Cinema would not exist if they hadn't actually done the same thing there i.e. certifying both screen and projektor (though theatrical Dolby does not need dynamic metadata because the grades are specially made FOR that system) but that's the point: those installs use specific gear calibrated to specific levels at great expense. The article does mention this as being a potential option for home users but I'm not sure Dolby want to allow too granular a control over their black box technology.

Why not just allow the "dumb" player led version for projektors then? Because it's not actually that dumb, it still uses the EDID from the attached display to determine where it should be mapping to. But while the 'engine' inside the players does not have the processing power of the TV-led system, hence the banding and whatnot, it's not providing some kind of generic 'flat' tone map irrespective of the display type either. And as I understand it people need to dial in a custom curve when spoofing the player-led DV so it's still not some plug and play system.

08-15-2021, 11:12 AM	#1106
DDH Senior Member Member since:Aug 2020	My post has nothing to do here. Last edited by DDH; 08-15-2021 at 07:43 PM.

09-06-2021, 02:21 AM	#1115
gkolb Blu-ray Samurai Top contributor Member since:Feb 2012 Location:Bakersfield, CA 4K collection:979 Blu-ray collection:2941 DVD collection:273	If these PJ’s can process HDR10+, I wonder why they wouldn’t take Player-led Dolby Vision?

09-06-2021, 04:04 AM	#1117
gkolb Blu-ray Samurai Top contributor Member since:Feb 2012 Location:Bakersfield, CA 4K collection:979 Blu-ray collection:2941 DVD collection:273	Weird. How do they handle Sony Light Canon assaults?

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