Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by cheez avenger

You can get Atmos via VUDU through the ATV4K. Who said you can't?

Wendell did:

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

@ Vilya: my comments (with links) on the Apple TV:

Dolby Atmos: Have Atmos with Apple iTunes ● Amazon Prime ● Disney+ ● HBO Max ● Movies Anywhere. No Atmos via Vudu. Have not tried with Google or Netflix. For non Atmos, the ATV will decode the audio and send to your audio device as PCM.

[Show spoiler]Video: Mine is set for frame rate matching and it works. Smooth play from 23.976, 24 and 25 FPS Netflix test files. There will be a small amount of blank screen time if you switch content with different frame rates.

The setup is pretty much straight ahead and similar to other streaming devices.

Remote: Not useable by me. Programed my URC MX-980 to control the Apple by IR (screenshot below). Used URC database, Pronto type hex codes and a couple of keys learned from my Inteset INT-422-3 remote (here), site (here). The Inteset could control your AVR, TV, Oppo and Apple TV. It is a JP1 remote so you could change its programming.

InFuse: Have not installed and used, yet!

Minus: No IR or IP shortcut to apps on the Apple TV. The Roku has several making app switching a breeze.

So, hello Apple TV, goodbye Roku Ultra from my equipment rack. Have a Mac Mini ordered so I can setup the Apple Playback HUD. Note: I took this info and created a PDF. Let me know if a copy is desired.

Add: Also have a small Arteck HB030B Bluetooth keyboard to use when typing is needed. Paired without problems.

[Show spoiler]

If you can actually get Atmos via Vudu with the new ATV4K, then I'm happy to hear it.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

IMO, his objection is SVOD, AVOD, etc. talk in this thread and is justified. If you are making reference to the ATV it can do those plus EST as in Amazon, MoviesAnywhere, Vudu, etc. With InFuse it can be a media player as well.

Actually, I think discussing SVOD/AVOD in this thread is very relevant. The availability of massive amounts of content for a very low monthly fee, or entirely free with many AVODs, is a major contributing factor as to why people are purchasing less content, whether that content be physical or digital EST. They don't feel the need to buy content when, for example, Disney+ offers so much of what they want to see for just $8 per month.

Yeah, we had cable TV long before SVOD, but unlike cable TV, SVOD is vastly cheaper, higher quality (than cable), and all of the content is available "on demand." Cable TV did not hurt sales of video content, but SVOD certainly has and thus SVOD very much impacts the future of physical media and digital EST both.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

So can my Roku and Amazon Fire Stick.

So can 19 other devices that I have but no one asked about them.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Vilya

It is disappointing that you can not get Dolby Atmos audio when using Vudu; is that an ATV4K issue or does Vudu simply not offer Dolby Atmos audio? The entire reason that I want an ATV4K is to be able to enjoy Dolby Atmos audio and Vudu is one of the apps that I use the most often.

As always, it depends on the equipment chain and the apps themselves. In my case I believe the projector may be the cause of some problems because it is HDMI 2.0, HDCP 2.2 but 8 bit @ 4096 x 2160. Add in the Yamaha AVP and handshake issues grow. The Roku Ultra (2019) was a pain to get it to lock, the Nvidia Shield Pro (2019) and ATV (2021) less so. The Oppo and Sony UHD BD players work fine because the HDMI Video out is connected direct to the projector via a HDMI switcher, the HDMI Audio out is connected to the Yamaha AVP.

Vudu: Content with Atmos sound plays fine via the Shield, plays with multi-channel (5.1 or 7.1) PCM via the ATV. As noted earlier, the ATV decodes the audio and sends as PCM to the audio device, sends Atmos via MAT 2.0 to the audio device.

Disney+: Content with Atmos sound plays as multi-channel Dolby Digital+ via the Shield, plays as Atmos via ATV. Quirk - even tho content show as UHD it plays as 1920 x 1080 (info from ATV Display HUD).

Any trouble watching 4K video content from the various streaming sources with the ATV4K?

As noted above. Apple+, iTunes, Amazon, HBO Max, Movies Anywhere, Netflix (HD only) all work as expected.

The folks at Disney+ ought to get the API from the ones that did Disney Movies Anywhere because it seems to work as expected.

VUDU: with my chain I have a problem with Atmos and the ATV, does not mean you would in your setup.

Because the ATV can do Display HUD and auto frame rate matching it is now my go to device for IPTV. Now looking into what iOS 15 can do in the way of new commands via IR learning.

[cheez avenger]

Thanks for clarifying, Wendell. Yeah, I guess it does depend on your workflow. I do get Atmos via my ATV4K for VUDU.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Have you priced the Sony A90J TVs? The 55" costs $2800, the 65" costs $3800, and the 83" costs $8000. Let us know which one you buy.

People that want the best/most options enjoy both physical media and digital distribution; they do not arbitrarily limit themselves to just one or the other.

Hi Vilya glad to hear from you, but if you want the Best you have to pay for it. When I bought my Sony 4KTV four years ago it was costly too, but you have to agree it was worth it. There are so many Devices, but I think you should start with the Display!

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by cheez avenger

Thanks for clarifying, Wendell. Yeah, I guess it does depend on your workflow. I do get Atmos via my ATV4K for VUDU.

Thanks for the verification, good to know. I believe Vilya should have no problem because his devices are fairly new.

Disney+: No Atmos via Nvidia Shield Pro on my setup but others do get Atmos on their setup.

I posted elsewhere: (for gotmule in case you get a ATV )

Another quirk, Kris Deering reports his Trinnov AVP shows Dolby TrueHD when playing IPTV Atmos content via the ATV. My Yamaha AVP will very briefly show TrueHD then displays Atmos when starting IPTV Atmos content. The IPTV Atmos content is really Dolby Digital+ (lossy).

Played some Atmos content from Amazon and Display HUD showed audio codec as qec-3, Atmos from Disney+ showed audio codec as EC-3 (channel's 6, sample 48KHz). EC-3 = Dolby Digital+

[JohnAV]

For once Apple TV + might have something desirable besides Ted and Foundation.

Invasion — Official Trailer | Apple TV+ - YouTube

[cheez avenger]

The Star Wars "Visions" anime shorts are live on Disney+.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Thanks for the verification, good to know. I believe Vilya should have no problem because his devices are fairly new.

Disney+: No Atmos via Nvidia Shield Pro on my setup but others do get Atmos on their setup.

I posted elsewhere: (for gotmule in case you get a ATV )

When I finally get one, it is my intention to just connect it directly to my AVR. I'll probably hardwire it to the internet, too, just to satisfy alchav.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Hi Vilya glad to hear from you, but if you want the Best you have to pay for it. When I bought my Sony 4KTV four years ago it was costly too, but you have to agree it was worth it. There are so many Devices, but I think you should start with the Display!

I very much enjoy my 85" Sony X900F; I seldom notice the FALD limitations that the OLED faithful can not abide.

Still, my curiosity makes me want to try an OLED TV someday; maybe doing so will cause this heretic to join the Cult of Perfect Blackness.

But that $8000 price tag for an 83" Sony A90J is obscene. The step down model, the 77" inch Sony A80J costs just $3800. Most of the professional reviews that I have read say that the differences between the A90J and the A80J are subtle ones at best. For more than twice the price difference between the two, I need some knock my socks off "wow!" differences.

[Vilya]

In other spell binding news, I discovered that my Monoprice "Premium" High Speed HDMI cables were failing; 2 out of 3 confirmed, so I went ahead and removed them all.

Never again will I be lured by the Siren's song that cheap HDMI cables are as good as more expensive ones. I have never had cables of any kind fail me until I tried Monoprice. In my opinion, they are absolute garbage having not even lasted two years. I went back to using AudioQuest; they're a tad pricey, but they actually last.

For more delicious details, visit my post here:

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...ostcount=10434

[cheez avenger]

Originally Posted by Vilya

In other spell binding news, I discovered that my Monoprice "Premium" High Speed HDMI cables were failing; 2 out of 3 confirmed, so I went ahead and removed them all.

Never again will I be lured by the Siren's song that cheap HDMI cables are as good as more expensive ones. I have never had cables of any kind fail me until I tried Monoprice. In my opinion they are absolute garbage having not even lasted two years. I went back to using AudioQuest; they're a tad pricey, but they actually last.

For more delicious details, visit my post here:

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...ostcount=10434

Wow, I'm bummed to hear that. Granted, I don't own any Monoprice cables (My HDMI cables are from Amazon Basics). My two Monoprice subwoofers are still going strong, though

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by cheez avenger

Wow, I'm bummed to hear that. Granted, I don't own any Monoprice cables (My HDMI cables are from Amazon Basics). My two Monoprice subwoofers are still going strong, though

Subwoofers are different critters entirely, so you are probably just fine.

Many people are satisfied with their Monoprice hdmi cables; maybe I was just the unlucky duck to draw the short stick with mine? 2 out of 3 of them confirmed to have gone bad.

In my current condition, getting behind my system to replace HDMI cables was a Herculean task. I don't want to have to do it again anytime soon, so I went back to a brand that has never disappointed me.

[gotmule]

Originally Posted by Vilya

In other spell binding news, I discovered that my Monoprice "Premium" High Speed HDMI cables were failing; 2 out of 3 confirmed, so I went ahead and removed them all.

Never again will I be lured by the Siren's song that cheap HDMI cables are as good as more expensive ones. I have never had cables of any kind fail me until I tried Monoprice. In my opinion, they are absolute garbage having not even lasted two years. I went back to using AudioQuest; they're a tad pricey, but they actually last.

For more delicious details, visit my post here:

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...ostcount=10434

In this hobby of ours, I think the debate regarding cables is the longest running and at times, one of the most contentious. It is crazy that there exists a group on AVS Forum that will belittle and haze anyone who spends money on cables, as they will post links to refute any sort of claimed benefits from going up the food chain.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Vilya

But that $8000 price tag for an 83" Sony A90J is obscene.

Some of these toys can get pricey. Did you see the post where gotmule had ordered a Trinnov (Altitude 16, IIRC)? I'm waiting on Kris Deering's review of the new JVC DLA-RS4100 video projector (here) and if it is really positive will see what it takes to procure one.

[gotmule]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Some of these toys can get pricey. Did you see the post where gotmule had ordered a Trinnov (Altitude 16, IIRC)? I'm waiting on Kris Deering's review of the new JVC DLA-RS4100 video projector (here) and if it is really positive will see what it takes to procure one.

Thanks for the mention, but it was the Lyngdorf MP-60 2.1. Almost went the Trinnov way though.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Some of these toys can get pricey. Did you see the post where gotmule had ordered a Trinnov (Altitude 16, IIRC)? I'm waiting on Kris Deering's review of the new JVC DLA-RS4100 video projector

Talk about Obscene that JVC Projector is $25,000, so $8000 is chicken feed. That's why I say this Movie viewing Quality is all Subjective, and very dependent on your pocket book. Just because you have Disc doesn't mean you have the best, you need the equipment to back it up. I say start with the Display, and see what equipment to add for the Quality you want for a given price!

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Talk about Obscene that JVC Projector is $25,000, so $8000 is chicken feed. That's why I say this Movie viewing Quality is all Subjective, and very dependent on your pocket book. Just because you have Disc doesn't mean you have the best, you need the equipment to back it up. I say start with the Display, and see what equipment to add for the Quality you want for a given price!

Uh, no; that's not how it works.

There are objective metrics by which the quality of a video source, disc or digital, can be measured. A crappy source is still a lousy source no matter what we view and listen to it with. Great devices can lessen the pain of an inferior encode somewhat, but they can not transform a turd into a tiara.

Our devices also have objectively measured abilities. A poor quality display and/or a chintzy sound system will do a great disservice to whatever source is played upon them. The best disc and the finest stream will both fail to realize their potential when played on low grade equipment.

The quality of the source content and the equipment used to play them are important; both of which can be determined by a number of objective measurements.

The only subjective part is how much each of us cares about any of it.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Some of these toys can get pricey.

[Show spoiler]Did you see the post where gotmule had ordered a Trinnov (Altitude 16, IIRC)? I'm waiting on Kris Deering's review of the new JVC DLA-RS4100 video projector (here) and if it is really positive will see what it takes to procure one.

Pricey is just fine when the gains are substantial enough to justify the money spent to get them.

The 83" Sony A90J ($8000) costs more than twice the price of the 77" Sony A80J ($3800) and all you get for that are 6 extra inches of screen and improvements that many professional reviewers describe as being only subtle. Spending more than twice as much moolah for one model of TV over another should deliver major advantages, not merely modest ones.

Slight gains for lots more money is one of the reasons why there isn't much enthusiasm for 8K. 8K OLED TVs, only offered by LG, start at $20,000; I'm not hearing any consumer excitement for them at all.