Warner Archive Collection Blu-ray Discussion Thread

[jkoffman]

Originally Posted by SoundOfSilence

Were they out protesting Fred Astaire?

I can see you're new to the forum, but this kind of trolling and off topic discussions -- It's a WAC thread -- often get deleted by mods and can be grounds for being banned from the forum. There's no reason to stir this up here, so please stop.

[Sean_PSC]

Originally Posted by SoundOfSilence

That's the problem with applying today's lens to history. What we may find as offensive just wasn't taken in that light.

No, that's observing that people in the past thought a lot of racist stuff was okay. Nobody is unaware that people at the time didn't think this was problematic (by and large; obviously there were strong criticism of Gone With the Wind, for instance, at the time). Blackface was a practice grounded in a thoroughly racist minstrelsy tradition that perpetuated harmful stereotypes of black people.

[SoundOfSilence]

Originally Posted by jkoffman

I can see you're new to the forum, but this kind of trolling and off topic discussions -- It's a WAC thread -- often get deleted by mods and can be grounds for being banned from the forum. There's no reason to stir this up here, so please stop.

No one is trying to stir anything up.

I am attempting to have a reasonable discussion about film.

You quoted me out of context. Used that quote to imply that I was somehow justifying slavery, or whatever you were insinuating.

Then you complain I am off topic when I point this out.

Perhaps you are right.

Maybe this isn't the discussion group for me.

I have neither the time nor the inclination to deal with such fragile egos.

[CineClassics]

Originally Posted by SoundOfSilence

The problem I have with these panel discussions about classic films and the attempt to place them in a historical context is that they are usually lead by film critics who are not historians. They often do not understand that history has been rewritten on occasion.

Take Psycho. The film was criticized for transgender identity and implications of equating gender fluidity and dressing in women’s clothes with mental illness and violence.

No it didn't.

Norman Bates suffered from Dissociative Identity Disorder (multiple personalities). He didn’t want to become a woman or even dress like one. He was possessed by an alter ego in the form of his mother. Of course Bates was also a psychopath. Throw in a dash of Freud’s Oedipus complex and there you have it.

But nowhere in the film was it argued that a little bit of angry dressing will turn you into a knife-wielding shower slasher.

Agree wholeheartedly. This example you provided from the "Reframed" series on TCM about Psycho was complete modern projection at its finest. No context whatsoever.

When it comes to the GWTW critcism about the romanticizing of the old south, of course I agree that it is romanticizing the era. But context matters. Gone With the Wind is told from the perspective of a young, spoiled, southern heiress. Of course she is going to romanticize the Tara Plantation and think "the help" is satisfied with their work.

Gone With the Wind in many ways subverts expectations. Scarlett is not a likable character, even if by the conclusion of the film, the audience has grown to appreciate her tenacity and individualism. It's Hattie McDaniel's character who is seen as the wise adult, giving sage advice to the spoiled Scarlett. Clark Gable's Rhett Butler is also shown as the cynical, truth-teller, lamenting the young men for their foolish urge to go to war.

I also detest that the film's controversies overshadow Hattie McDaniel's accomplishment of being the first black actor to win an Oscar. It's similar to Song of the South. Most people alive have never even seen this movie to judge for themselves the merits of whether it is offensive. But Walt Disney himself campaigned on behalf of James Baskett to win an honorary Academy Award for his work in the film, which he won, becoming the first black male to win any Oscar. That also gets swept into the dustbin of history because of Disney's refusal to let the film see the light of day.

And while I think this thread has already started to get a bit off topic and too political, and perhaps I'm partially to blame for that, so this will be my last post on the matter, I do want to point out other notable examples of editing/censorship that have occurred recently:

One of the most beloved modern comedies is The Office. Recently, Comedy Central and Netflix (before it moved to Peacock) edited various episodes of The Office. If you're not aware of this happening, a simple internet search will provide many examples of various episodes that have been censored and edited. When parody and satire become offensive to people, we're in trouble.

The most outspoken voices pushing back against the criticism are comedians. Jerry Seinfield said he would never do another stand-up comedy on a college campus because college students are too easily offended. Dave Chapelle, Jamie Foxx, Chris Rock, Billy Crystal, have all spoken out against ultra-sensitive society.

When people say that cancel culture, censorship, etc. isn't a real thing, I don't understand what universe they're living in. It's real, and it's happening. I know people who are afraid to even mention they enjoy Gone With the Wind for fear of being ridiculed and called a racist. Bill Maher recently said he loved GWTW when interviewing Quentin Tarantino and basically said, **** off to the people who want to make others feel guilty for enjoying a legendary film.

Here's another example relevant to classic cinema and cancel culture: https://deadline.com/2019/06/lillian...al-1202636690/

And I think someone on here mentioned that WB may have made the decision not to release GWTW on 4k because it may not be financially worthwhile. Does anyone really think Giant is more well-known or viable as a classic film than Gone With the Wind? I don't buy that argument whatsoever.

[Aclea]

Originally Posted by CineClassics

Does anyone really think Giant is more well-known or viable as a classic film than Gone With the Wind? I don't buy that argument whatsoever.

It's always been a strong back catalogue seller for Warners and, perhaps more importantly, James Dean remains a mainstream cultural icon in a way the cast of GWTW aren't these days. Indeed, even in the gold rush days of DVD Clark Gable was seriously under-represented on disc: the vast majority of his output (more than 40 films) has only ever had Warner Archive MOD DVD-R releases (and I have them all). Nor is GWTW the licence to print money it once was: its last major theatrical reissue in 1998 only grossed $6.75m (by contrast the same year The Wizard of Oz pulled in $14.8m), just over a third of its breakeven point, its 2019 reissue did $2.176m and its obviously handicapped 2020 and 2021 reissues just $79,416 and $29,614 respectively.

As others have pointed out, the mainstream nostalgia market isn't 30s or 40s films anymore - to date I believe Wizard of Oz is WHV's only Thirties film on 4K, with their UK release of Citizen Kane their only Forties 4K film, and Giant their only 50s 4K (EDIT - it's their second: I forgot Singin' in the Rain).

[Rayjg]

I’m just trying to imagine the poor kid that accidentally stumbles across an 83 year old film, that’s almost four hours long, that’s a historical melodrama and is only stopped from watching it by a message at the beginning of the film and goes phew that was a close call. Back to TikTok.

[oildude]

Gents, please get back on topic with discussing WAC releases.

All the censorship debates can easily get out of hand based on past examples in the forum, have already been said many times in other threads, and the films being discussed are off-topic here.

[HenryHill]

Just FYI, Party Girl is showing on TCM at 6 am Eastern this morning, if you want to try before you buy.

[Egbert Souse]

Originally Posted by Rayjg

I’m just trying to imagine the poor kid that accidentally stumbles across an 83 year old film, that’s almost four hours long, that’s a historical melodrama and is only stopped from watching it by a message at the beginning of the film and goes phew that was a close call. Back to TikTok.

I'm all for anything that helps entice new viewers to classics while also keeping the studio heads happy. It's like how Criterion produced a short pieces on Show Boat and Swing Time because of some stuff that would rightfully be seen as problematic today. It's not meant for people already used to classics having this sort of content, it's to put films into context for new audiences.

[romuald121]

Watched the WAC release Beyond a reasonable doubt, the bluray master has image stutters, did anyone notice that or is it just my copy?
Aside from that, the framing of the movie is so awkward, done RKOscope, sometimes it feels like the top is chopped off. The 2K master has a lot of grain for my liking but at least it preserves details

[Hammerlover]

Here's hoping WAC gives us Blu-ray restorations of both versions of NIGHT MUST FALL, although I must admit to being partial to the 1964 remake with Albert Finney.

[Aclea]

Originally Posted by Hammerlover

Here's hoping WAC gives us Blu-ray restorations of both versions of NIGHT MUST FALL, although I must admit to being partial to the 1964 remake with Albert Finney.

That would be great, but WA didn't always do those kind of double-bills on DVD-R (both were released separately despite sets like The Thirteenth Chair, Seven Keys to Baldpate, The White Sister, Hell's Heroes/Three Godfathers or The Squaw Man), and as Jekyll and Hyde implies, they don't seem minded to do them on blu. The only one they originated on blu that springs to mind is Gaslight, but that only used the old SD version of the original rather than the BFI's impressive HD restoration.

[Benoit Blanc]

Originally Posted by jkoffman

I can see you're new to the forum, but this kind of trolling and off topic discussions -- It's a WAC thread -- often get deleted by mods and can be grounds for being banned from the forum. There's no reason to stir this up here, so please stop.

What was this ban for?

[Gacivory]

I really hope Samuel Fuller’s Run of the Arrow, get a a release.

So, while jkhoffman is away everyone spam this thread with wish list titles!

[Gunsnroses092789]

Originally Posted by Gacivory

I really hope Samuel Fuller’s Run of the Arrow, get a a release.

So, while jkhoffman is away everyone spam this thread with wish list titles!

Haha. Does anyone know what jkoffman was banned/suspended for?

[Gacivory]

Originally Posted by Gunsnroses092789

Haha. Does anyone know what jkoffman was banned/suspended for?

No idea, i have to assume some posts got deleted. I will be open to a private message for a reason.

[rdodolak]

Originally Posted by Benoit Blanc

What was this ban for?

Originally Posted by Gunsnroses092789

Haha. Does anyone know what jkoffman was banned/suspended for?

Originally Posted by Gacivory

No idea, i have to assume some posts got deleted. I will be open to a private message for a reason.

I'm going to assume someone may have claimed he was acting like a mod. I don't really see anything wrong with his post quoted above.

[ponderingtheuniverse]

Just like The Clock and Ziegfeld Girl, For Me and My Gal is now down to $17.99 on Amazon.

[alexrinse]

Originally Posted by Hammerlover

Here's hoping WAC gives us Blu-ray restorations of both versions of NIGHT MUST FALL, although I must admit to being partial to the 1964 remake with Albert Finney.

I saw the 64 version at the cinema just after Finney died and thoroughly enjoyed it, but it's completely blown out of the water by Robert Montgomery's astonishing performance in the earlier film (which I picked up on DVD a few months later without realising from the title I had seen its remake).

[Rayjg]

Much to my surprise when I ordered Run of the Arrow from the WB Shop years ago it arrived as a pressed disc. I’ve heard The Mask of Dimitrios shipped pressed as well but I didn’t get lucky with that one. It’s the only single movie from WAC that I ordered that ever arrived that way. The Lusty Men and Showboat were pressed too but they were advertised as such.