Kino Lorber Studio Classics

[hammer99]

Originally Posted by HenryHill

The Beach movies were made by AIP as drive-in fodder for the teenage market. Thgey were churned out quickly and were meant to be disposable entertainment. I enjoy them, but they aren't art.

I remember when I was a kid that several of them did end up running more than once on ABC's Sunday Night Movie Of the Week back in the pre-cable days, a pretty high-profile spot. Guess you had to be there.

[donidarko]

Originally Posted by Shane Rollins

From what I heard, Donna Summer was the big hold-up. She realized in the early 2000s that she had only authorized her songs for the theatrical release, and not the home video releases. She wanted the songs newly authorized, plus backpay for the 20+ years of home video releases she hadn’t been compensated for. One total I heard was “tens of millions of dollars”. Donna Summer died ten years ago, but her estate has carried on her legacy and refused to authorize the movie without an unreasonable payout. IF Kino has Looking For Mr. Goodbar (and I truly believe they do not), it would be the biggest shock I’ve had in my 23 years of watching and collecting movies.

John Waters once said that it’s $25-30 thousand every time the needle drops, and reauthorizing old songs is harder because the artists rightfully want compensation for years past. Waters had that problem (and that’s the reason Mondo Trasho is never coming back and his other Blu-rays are heavily edited), Kino and Giorgio Moroder had that problem with Metropolis (I don’t know how much it cost to work that out), and Columbia had that problem with American Pop and Heavy Metal (the former has been OOP for over 20 years, the later cost millions to authorize permanently), and Paramount is currently having this problem with Little Darlings and The Astrologer. Having not seen the TV version or the “red box” VHS of Little Darlings, just what’s in the theatrical cut (the “blue box” VHS) is $100,000 on a lucky day. It’s probably closer to 2-3, but I’m not a music rights lawyer, and don’t know the ins and outs of that movie. (Judging by KLI’s words, I assume Little Darlings is sadly not coming either.) The Astrologer was hampered by Paramount literally trying to bribe AGFA and the Alamo Drafthouse Cinema into a one-sided deal for permission to screen the movie. That shameful moment, in addition to that movie’s music issues, are keeping it out of circulation.

Goodbar is a case where the people who need to be paid are just being dicks. To pay “tens of millions” to Donna Summer’s estate would most likely negate any profits the movie has ever earned, as well as insuring the movie could never profit in the future. Unless moving the cans with Goodbar in them leads to some cans that say Ambersons, there is no way Goodbar could be released, in a satisfying version, and make a profit, and you can blame Donna Summer and her people for that.

If this is the case, Paramount SHOULD replace the songs. I’m sorry, I’m a huge fan of this film and at this point I wouldn’t care that the original songs are GONE. I want to see Diane Keaton’s extraordinary performance, and appreciate all the other filmmakers contributions to this iconic film. F**k Donna Summers estate. Give them nothing.

[beamish13]

[/B]QUOTE=donidarko;20155364]If this is the case, Paramount SHOULD replace the songs. I’m sorry, I’m a huge fan of this film and at this point I wouldn’t care that the original songs are GONE. I want to see Diane Keaton’s extraordinary performance, and appreciate all the other filmmakers contributions to this iconic film. F**k Donna Summers estate. Give them nothing.[/QUOTE]




It’s very possible that Richard Brooks had final cut on Goodbar, and Paramount cannot alter it in any way

[cloudnine]

Originally Posted by RCRochester

Thank you for contributing your two cents and providing us all with your personal opinion of the films in question.

I've already laid out the reasons why I think it might be of benefit to Kino to give the films a chance. Ultimately, it's their choice whether to consider it or ignore it.

For the record, I am not from the boomer generation and have no nostalgic attachment to these films and it's not about "seeing a few women in bikinis."

I'm not a fan of the 60's beach films, but I will say this, the Insider has said in the past they need to sell at least 2000 copies of a film to be worth it to Kino. I feel the same way about Kino not giving biker films a chance. There's still 2 AIP biker films that have never been on disc (not including Savage 7 w/o the soundtrack) and I think at least 1 of them could hit the 2000 mark but I don't think they want to take the risk, although real bikers collect every single biker film.

[donidarko]

Originally Posted by beamish13

[/B]QUOTE=donidarko;20155364]If this is the case, Paramount SHOULD replace the songs. I’m sorry, I’m a huge fan of this film and at this point I wouldn’t care that the original songs are GONE. I want to see Diane Keaton’s extraordinary performance, and appreciate all the other filmmakers contributions to this iconic film. F**k Donna Summers estate. Give them nothing.

It’s very possible that Richard Brooks had final cut on Goodbar, and Paramount cannot alter it in any way[/QUOTE]

Wow! That makes things even more complicated. Such a shame. Apparently Human GREED always leads to ruin. This is why we can’t have nice things.

[Chie Satonaka]

Originally Posted by TenYearLurker

The Insider does in fact have more insight into the business side of things than the vast majority of folks grousing in here, whether you like it or not. Do some titles occasionally sell more than projections/predictions indicate? Sure. But on the whole, there are numbers and metrics that can be referenced to influence business/financial decisions that make sense for a company.

KLI has even pointed to the dire numbers that Olive saw with some of their beach party movie releases, yet people are still clamoring for them, while trying to tell label reps that they know better than them. It's ridiculous, and a little embarrassing, and the tone in his responses is totally understandable. Why is it so hard for some of you to accept that these movies don't resonate with, or matter to, a vast amount of people--including fellow film lovers and collectors?

The fact is, beach party movies primarily appeal to aging white men from the boomer generation who enjoy them for nostalgic reasons; that's not a criticism or a knock, that's just a fact. And no, seeing a few women in bikinis is not enough for most people to care about a movie. The movies are silly and corny (as are many of the movies I have in my own collection), but I completely disagree that they're fun. They all blend into one another, and are a painfully boring way to spend 90 minutes, in my experience.

Some are arguing that Back to the Beach was huge for 80's kids, but that's not true at all. I'm an 80's kid, and so are all of my movie-loving and collecting friends; many of us also love Pee-Wee Herman and Fishbone, but their inclusion in the movie isn't enough to make me sit through any Frankie and Annette vehicle, because I just don't care about them. At all. And the numbers indicate that I'm not alone in that. The movie barely broke even, and was not a success by any definition of the word.

I love plenty of stuff that I know other people couldn't give a damn about. And that's ok! But it's getting absurd watching a vocal minority continue to bring up a small subgenre as being unfairly ignored, and confidently stating that they'll be big sellers for boutique labels. If you're so sure of it, put your own money towards securing the rights and releasing them, and see how it works out for you.

Well said. I'm not sure why people keep dogging the Insider about this. If the people in this thread really want these movies released they would be better served trying to get in touch with people from another label and seeing if they would consider releasing these films. Kino clearly doesn't want to put these out, but another label always could. Look elsewhere people.

[RCRochester]

Originally Posted by Chie Satonaka

Well said. I'm not sure why people keep dogging the Insider about this. If the people in this thread really want these movies released they would be better served trying to get in touch with people from another label and seeing if they would consider releasing these films. Kino clearly doesn't want to put these out, but another label always could. Look elsewhere people.

From my post on May 28th:

Originally Posted by RCRochester

But, whatever, Kino are dead set against it, so hopefully another label will put the rest of the films out instead. Ideally it would be Olive, but who knows what is going on with them these days. Maybe this new label Sandpiper will take a chance on them.

I considered that to be the end of the discussion and it was only after the KLI made some flippant responses yesterday that it was rehashed, so was dogging who?

[HenryHill]

Originally Posted by hammer99

I remember when I was a kid that several of them did end up running more than once on ABC's Sunday Night Movie Of the Week back in the pre-cable days, a pretty high-profile spot. Guess you had to be there.

I was so there that I saw those Beach movies at the drive-in during their original releases, albeit as a kid. Networks ran movies to cover gaps in their programming schedules, not as any endorsement of quality.

[hammer99]

Originally Posted by HenryHill

I was so there that I saw those Beach movies at the drive-in during their original releases, albeit as a kid. Networks ran movies to cover gaps in their programming schedules, not as any endorsement of quality.

Quality, no. Popularity, I think so.

[HenryHill]

Originally Posted by hammer99

Quality, no. Popularity, I think so.

The networks bought the rights from studios to air their movies as packages, not by individual title.

Just as Kino has been forced to take less-desirable films to get the titles they want, the networks had to air bad movies along with the marquee titles. Because they negotiated ad rates with sponsors annually, the quality or popularity of the movies shown week to week didn't matter.

[gudemameshiba]

Originally Posted by RCRochester

I considered that to be the end of the discussion and it was only after the KLI made some flippant responses yesterday that it was rehashed, so was dogging who?

I think TenYearLurker's post was a bit overstated, but, meaning no disrespect—and with apologies for my tone in my earlier reply to you—you mean that it was rehashed by you. If the discussion were over from your perspective, what difference would parting shots make to the subject at hand?

EDIT: that said it is a little funny that KLI logged in on Sunday of a holiday weekend to respond.

[Torgon]

No disrespect to anyone here but KLI has already said the Beach Blanket movies are not going to happen; that’s been established. Wouldn’t this discussion be better suited for another forum? Maybe Paramount as they are the cause with the upcoming release? Maybe another company who has previously released or owns them? Maybe a Wish list thread? Basically everyone is just throwing in their two cents (as I just did, lol) and everyone is getting upset at everyone else’s comments; find them insulting. I’m getting tired of reading/looking at these post about something not happening and the thread being derailed by a few people. No, I’m not the police in charge of the thread, but really? I think many would agree: it’s dead

[RCRochester]

Originally Posted by gudemameshiba

I think TenYearLurker's post was a bit overstated, but, meaning no disrespect—and with apologies for my tone in my earlier reply to you—you mean that it was rehashed by you. If the discussion were over from your perspective, what difference would parting shots make to the subject at hand?

EDIT: that said it is a little funny that KLI logged in on Sunday of a holiday weekend to respond.

Because those “parting shots” directly quoted things that I said. I have no problem engaging with the KLI even it gets a little hot, I’m perfectly willing to state my case and he can state his, no big deal.

Despite what you may think, I totally understand his point of view, and I’m hoping that in the long run, they might consider mine. They changed their mind about Skullduggery, so you never know. If not, my world isn’t going to come to an end.

[noirjunkie]

Originally Posted by RCRochester

They changed their mind about Skullduggery, so you never know.

They didn't. That was one of the Insider's lies to protect a title they weren't ready to announce.

[hammer99]

Originally Posted by cloudnine

I'm not a fan of the 60's beach films, but I will say this, the Insider has said in the past they need to sell at least 2000 copies of a film to be worth it to Kino. I feel the same way about Kino not giving biker films a chance. There's still 2 AIP biker films that have never been on disc (not including Savage 7 w/o the soundtrack) and I think at least 1 of them could hit the 2000 mark but I don't think they want to take the risk, although real bikers collect every single biker film.

No, I didn't know that.Well, looking at it that way, I don't think Beach Party will sell 2000 copies. No big deal, there are several hundred titles I'd rather have first instead.

Still fun to speculate. Wonder if Mystery Men 4K will sell 2K?

[RCRochester]

Originally Posted by noirjunkie

They didn't. That was one of the Insider's lies to protect a title they weren't ready to announce.

The deal with Universal that included Skullduggery where the KLI lied about it was signed in January of 2020.

It was long before that the KLI responded to Richard-W's inquiries about it with responses like this from February of 2019:

Originally Posted by Kino Lorber Insider

We love Burt Reynolds, but not that much.

[cloudnine]

Originally Posted by noirjunkie

They didn't. That was one of the Insider's lies to protect a title they weren't ready to announce.

You're right about that, but in the past, prior to that, the Insider said he was against Kino releasing it because he didn't like the film, but that time his boss overruled him.

[darkness2918]

Ive been really into 70s, 80s gritty cop films lately (Dirty Harry type). Any recommendations of such films released by Kino (or any other label)? Ive picked up a few lately & have a couple of others coming in the mail like Bullitt & The Stone Killer. I got Brannigan last week also.

[RCRochester]

Originally Posted by darkness2918

Ive been really into 70s, 80s gritty cop films lately (Dirty Harry type). Any recommendations of such films released by Kino (or any other label)? Ive picked up a few lately & have a couple of others coming in the mail like Bullitt & The Stone Killer. I got Brannigan last week also.

I’ll get the ball rolling with a couple Kino titles:

Madigan
Coogan’s Bluff

[AKORIS]

The Laughing Policeman

Hickey & Boggs

Busting