Superman: The Movie 4K UHD (1978)

[captainsolo]

In trying to fix II it should be a hybrid cut. You have to since Donner wasn't allowed to come back and finish the film plus Lester re-shot some Donner material.
Tonally Lester's footage is completely different from Donner's so I understand keeping the Donner cut entirely to his material.

It's a puzzle and what I think would be best overall for a full ultimate I and II archival edition:
-I theatrical with all three original mixes plus TV and SE cuts.
-II theatrical with all original audio options including the bass emphasized Megasound.
-Donner Cut with some slightly better effects work on the worst 2006 shots.
-TV cut of II
-Hybrid cut where the few necessary theatrical bits are placed in position in the Donner Cut. Someone at WB has already done this for the random streaming cuts that turn up.

And most important: every unused surviving scene that was shot as an extra plus the shooting script so fans can piece it together for themselves and see what the full intention was.

They still really need to fix the color problems on all the newer BD masters.

[motorheadache95]

Eh, the problem with doing a so-called "hybrid" cut is that everyone is going to have a different opinion on what should be included and what should go, and who's going to decide? Richard Donner passed away and he put his stamp on the Donner Cut that was released. At this point I just want them to release the extended TV version, and ideally put all three versions in a new 4K Anthology set with the other films. I think that version is pretty great and close enough to a hybrid cut, especially since some of the footage that found it's way into the Donner cut was in it.

Funny story about that tv cut-- I grew up watching that version because my dad had taped it when it aired. I didn't even realize it was an extended version, I just thought it was the movie. So I was kind of surprised at all the missing footage when I first bought Superman II on DVD back in the day!

[CreasyBear]

Originally Posted by motorheadache95

Eh, the problem with doing a so-called "hybrid" cut is that everyone is going to have a different opinion on what should be included and what should go, and who's going to decide? Richard Donner passed away and he put his stamp on the Donner Cut that was released. At this point I just want them to release the extended TV version, and ideally put all three versions in a new 4K Anthology set with the other films. I think that version is pretty great and close enough to a hybrid cut, especially since some of the footage that found it's way into the Donner cut was in it.

Funny story about that tv cut-- I grew up watching that version because my dad had taped it when it aired. I didn't even realize it was an extended version, I just thought it was the movie. So I was kind of surprised at all the missing footage when I first bought Superman II on DVD back in the day!

In my 220 minute cut of both films, I used the theatrical cut of the first film and cut into the Donner Cut at the point Superman is chasing the missles and then mostly used the Donner Cut up until the ending where I went back to the Lester cut. So this version has no time travel at all.

[bmudRB]

Originally Posted by Chris1984

Can’t believe WB still has not put out the other Superman movies on 4k. Every Batman movie is out in 4k but Batman 66 and that’s because it’s with Disney.

Both series are unintentionally corny as hell, but the original Superman movies started off that way with the Batman series a little less so. I wonder if that has anything to do with it.

[Chris1984]

Originally Posted by bmudRB

Both series are unintentionally corny as hell, but the original Superman movies started off that way with the Batman series a little less so. I wonder if that has anything to do with it.

Superman always plays second fiddle to Batman.

[BNex99]

Originally Posted by motorheadache95

Eh, the problem with doing a so-called "hybrid" cut is that everyone is going to have a different opinion on what should be included and what should go, and who's going to decide?

That's what I've been saying for years. There's really no way to "fix" Superman II at this point. For better or worse, it's done. I think the best we can hope for is a 4K of the theatrical cut, a Blu-ray of the TV cut (if the elements are available), and maaaaaaaybe a 4K upscale of the Donner Cut (but I'm not sure that would be worth it).

It's similar to the Pat Garrett & Billy the Kid situation. Peckinpah left before the film was finished. What we have as the "Preview Version" is essentially how he left it, but we'll never know what final decisions he would have made. Paul Seydor (probably the most knowledgeable Peckinpah scholar out there) tried to speculate on that, and fans obliterated him over it. Any new "hybrid" cut of Superman II would probably be met with the same reaction.

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by motorheadache95

Eh, the problem with doing a so-called "hybrid" cut is that everyone is going to have a different opinion on what should be included and what should go, and who's going to decide? Richard Donner passed away and he put his stamp on the Donner Cut that was released. At this point I just want them to release the extended TV version, and ideally put all three versions in a new 4K Anthology set with the other films. I think that version is pretty great and close enough to a hybrid cut, especially since some of the footage that found it's way into the Donner cut was in it.

Funny story about that tv cut-- I grew up watching that version because my dad had taped it when it aired. I didn't even realize it was an extended version, I just thought it was the movie. So I was kind of surprised at all the missing footage when I first bought Superman II on DVD back in the day!

Maybe Warner could do a survey for the fans regarding a new edit...allowing someone to checkbox the scenes they want (or don't want in another section). Unlikely, but just a thought. I agree not everyone will be happy, but there might be enough consensus to Bolty's point.

[motorheadache95]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

Maybe Warner could do a survey for the fans regarding a new edit...allowing someone to checkbox the scenes they want (or don't want in another section). Unlikely, but just a thought. I agree not everyone will be happy, but there might be enough consensus to Bolty's point.

It’s an interesting what if but it’s like when people said you should be able to special order a Star Wars set with a checklist of what UOT and Special Edition stuff you want

I did almost forget about that extended Donner cut that was on Vudu or whatever it is. I didn’t see it but it sounded like it had both Donner cut footage and scenes from the tv cut.

[Bolty]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

Maybe Warner could do a survey for the fans regarding a new edit...allowing someone to checkbox the scenes they want (or don't want in another section). Unlikely, but just a thought. I agree not everyone will be happy, but there might be enough consensus to Bolty's point.

Kind of a cool idea actually. At least a poll on which of the 2 official versions fans would prefer. If there was a landslide (60+%) one way or the other they'd feel okay to go with the winner. If it was close to a tie maybe a hybrid would be more feasible. Then a poll on specific scenes...

Brando vs.York
Forget kiss vs. time travel II vs. leave both out
Paris vs. Lois jumps
Screen test vs. jumps into Niagra River
Fortress battle Donner vs. Lester

Giving the diehard fans a vote would be fun marketing on their part.

[rubystone356]

there is a streaming version on vudu that includes more Lester footage.. it fixes some issues.

Jacob

[suspiciouscoffee]

Originally Posted by Bolty

Kind of a cool idea actually. At least a poll on which of the 2 official versions fans would prefer. If there was a landslide (60+%) one way or the other they'd feel okay to go with the winner. If it was close to a tie maybe a hybrid would be more feasible. Then a poll on specific scenes...

Brando vs.York
Forget kiss vs. time travel II vs. leave both out
Paris vs. Lois jumps
Screen test vs. jumps into Niagra River
Fortress battle Donner vs. Lester

Giving the diehard fans a vote would be fun marketing on their part.

Superman II: The Interactive Experience, an HBO Max Original.

[BNex99]

Originally Posted by Bolty

If you objectively look at it the Donner cut combined with the Paris opening and the Niagra Falls "reveal" would be best and leave off both the "dumb" endings (forget kiss/rewind time again).

That's your opinion, and you're absolutely entitled to it. But there's nothing "objective" about it.

Originally Posted by suspiciouscoffee

Superman II: The Interactive Experience, an HBO Max Original.

In all seriousness, a true 4K version of either the Donner Cut or whatever "hybrid" cut fans might vote into existence would have to be a complete reconstruction. This would be a much more costly undertaking than a standard 4K scan and color grade of the negative for the theatrical cut, for probably a much lower return on investment.

It just... ain't happening.

[suspiciouscoffee]

I mean, Star Trek: The Motion Picture 22DE happened. The freaking Snyder Cut happened. I don’t know that I’d say likely but anything’s possible.

[motorheadache95]

Originally Posted by suspiciouscoffee

I mean, Star Trek: The Motion Picture 22DE happened. The freaking Snyder Cut happened. I don’t know that I’d say likely but anything’s possible.

Well the Donner Cut came out years and years after fan campaigns and people that really wanted to see the cut footage. That really was like the O.G Snyder Cut.
I get what Bolty is saying, I guess I feel like I don’t really need a “definitive” hybrid cut. I’d fine watching the original Lester version for what it is, and the Donner Version for what it is. I don’t necessarily want somebody at this point going in and blending them together in what would be a glorified fan edit.

Of course this is all just academic. We don’t know of any new editions of Superman II coming out, and based on the UHD release of the first film a 4K disc would just be the theatrical cut only.

[lildemon666]

Hope with get 2 on 4K this year, with the passing of Donner WB should pump out 2. As for Lethal Weapon I’m sure they are holding off till Mel directs 5.

[BNex99]

Originally Posted by suspiciouscoffee

I mean, Star Trek: The Motion Picture 22DE happened. The freaking Snyder Cut happened. I don’t know that I’d say likely but anything’s possible.

The Snyder Cut was given the go-ahead only 2-3 years after the theatrical version came out, with Snyder himself alive and well, and in full control.

Fair point about Star Trek: TMP, though; that would be the closest parallel. But I still don't think it would get a re-edit.

[Bolty]

So for the folks that like the Donner Cut --- what are the weakest parts?

The opening Lois jump, the screen test, the repeat ending?

From the literally dozens of critiques I've read those are the main complaints -- meaning those would be the ones that fans of the Donner would want swapped. But please tell us how unlikely it is because I am about to bet my house on it.

[suspiciouscoffee]

Originally Posted by BNex99

The Snyder Cut was given the go-ahead only 2-3 years after the theatrical version came out, with Snyder himself alive and well, and in full control.

It also cost tens of millions of dollars. Sure it probably wouldn’t have happened if not for the perfect storm of a built-in audience begging for it and a global pandemic stopping all full productions and the theatrical release schedule, but still, any Superman II project would probably not cost as much as a whole new production.

[Agent Kay]

The screen test is rough, but it's the bull headed "only my stuff" rule that breaks it

[david_blu]

Originally Posted by Agent Kay

The screen test is rough, but it's the bull headed "only my stuff" rule that breaks it

I like the screen test over the pink bear. They should have left more of the fortress stuff with Supes "This crystal" scene and getting dinner.

I would also keep the Lois window jump but definitely get rid of turning back time and keep Lois knowing his secret at the end, that is the ending that I worked out years ago would work best.

I also thought the deleted scenes of Lex at the fortress, villains entering the fortress and the villains being taken away should all have been incorporated back into the film.

Jimmy's camera could be used as a bridge between the balcony scene and the bully scene but they walk through a set of doors that were totalled the night before, that scene only completely works if you turn back time and fix the office, but one major glaring error aside it may work?

Lastly after Clark gets his own back at the diner you go into returning of the flag but before you cut to the end titles you could use the destroying of the monument scene and play in reverse to show Supes putting it back together.

I wouldn't use the Non kills the boy scene as its too severe.

Recreate the titles to mirror Superman 2 better but with the action intercut with the titles.

That would be my Superman 2.