The Shining 4K UHD (1980)

[Kyle15]

Originally Posted by James Luckard

It's weird for anyone to proclaim the US cut on 4K to be the "director's cut."

I've never read anything stating that Kubrick felt the US cut was superior to his later overseas cut.

Since that cut was the result of further contemplation on his part, and since he often cut his movies after they had been released, like 2001, it's not illogical to call the overseas cut the director's cut. He had decades to remove it from circulation on video if he changed his mind and reverted to preferring the US cut.

He left both out there in the world, so he clearly liked both.

I find both cuts valid, and (brace for sacrilege) I actually prefer the tighter overseas cut in many ways.

Both cuts are the "director's cut." The shorter one is just an alternate afterall, not meant to replace anything. I bigly err on the edge he got it right the first time.

[KubrickKurasawa]

Originally Posted by happydood

Oh. Chr!st.

Odin!

Stanley didn't believe in Christ so uhm LOL! You might need a guide for this film and a degree homie.

[Gacivory]

Oh boy there hasn't been an argument about which cut is "better" in awhile. I'm, sure this will go well.

[KubrickKurasawa]

Originally Posted by Gacivory

Oh boy there hasn't been an argument about which cut is "better" in awhile. I'm, sure this will go well.

He only did the big cut because he wanted to sell more copies to you guys

[Christian Muth]

I read an account, I believe from Leon Vitali, that Warner Brothers asked Kubrick to cut the film down to a more "commercial" length for the European release after THE SHINING "underperformed" at the U.S. box office (it was a hit, but not the blockbuster they wanted), and Kubrick obliged, so it wasn't some big artistic decision on his part, it was purely for commercial considerations, and he never heard Kubrick give a preference for either version. I find it very interesting that the Euro cut comes in at just under 2-hours, a certifiable "commercial" length, and also the cuts were made in such a way that the film didn't require any remixing. They were able to just cut the mixed mag tracks. They discuss that in the link at the bottom of this post. That suggests that Kubrick was looking to cut down the length in the most economical way possible, not necessarily making profound artistic choices in his recut. He was making the cuts in such a way that simply cutting the existing mixed mag tracks could be done without there being abrupt, jarring sound edits audible (although the removal of Wendy seeing the room of skeletons does lead to a bit of a "stutter" in the music track).

I much prefer the longer edit, but there are a couple cuts to the European version that I find effective and an improvement. In particular, the hard cut from Wendy saying "It's just a matter of settling back into the habit of writing every day" and Jack's reaction, directly to the camera slowly pulling back from his ignored typewriter in the Colorado Lounge while he throws the tennis balls against the wall works beautifully. But on the whole, the longer U.S. cut is better IMO.

https://blah-ray.blogspot.com/search...D%20%281980%29

Chris

[Christian Muth]

Originally Posted by James Luckard

It's weird for anyone to proclaim the US cut on 4K to be the "director's cut."

I've never read anything stating that Kubrick felt the US cut was superior to his later overseas cut.

[Show spoiler]

Since that cut was the result of further contemplation on his part, and since he often cut his movies after they had been released, like 2001, it's not illogical to call the overseas cut the director's cut. He had decades to remove it from circulation on video if he changed his mind and reverted to preferring the US cut.

He left both out there in the world, so he clearly liked both.

I find both cuts valid, and (brace for sacrilege) I actually prefer the tighter overseas cut in many ways.

For years, it was the opposite- people on-line would parrot "Kubrick preferred the European cut!", yet never provided any links to Kubrick- or somebody close to Kubrick- actually saying that. That seemed to have just been pulled that out of thin air and then it started getting repeated over and over again.

Chris

[CreasyBear]

I prefer the European cut and that's all that matters to me.

[CinemaScope]

I've only ever seen the European cut, & now I have the 4K, so it should be interesting to see the longer cut (when I'm in the mood to watch it).

I'd love to see the postscript hospital scene at the end that Kubrick cut out. I believe it was in the film for first few showings in America...I wonder if the scene even exists now?

[Matt89]

I always thought it was a mistake removing the scene with the doctor at the beginning of the film. It provides important character development with regards to Wendy and Danny. It also gives the later scene with Jack at the bar with Lloyd more impact (having heard the story from two different points of view), and you sympathize more with Wendy and Danny.

That being said, the European cut is still perfectly serviceable and is still a good film overall, however, I think the extended running time of the US cut really emphasizes Jack's slow descent into insanity. So, yeah, if I had to choose I'd say I prefer the US cut to the European.

~Matt

[CreasyBear]

Originally Posted by Matt89

I always thought it was a mistake removing the scene with the doctor at the beginning of the film. It provides important character development with regards to Wendy and Danny. It also gives the later scene with Jack at the bar with Lloyd more impact (having heard the story from two different points of view), and you sympathize more with Wendy and Danny.

That being said, the European cut is still perfectly serviceable and is still a good film overall, however, I think the extended running time of the US cut really emphasizes Jack's slow descent into insanity. So, yeah, if I had to choose I'd say I prefer the US cut to the European.

~Matt

I actually kind of like that we aren't given more obvious reasons to sympathize with Wendy and Danny. In that way, I think it's more subversive and less obvious. The European cut feels less overt and more subtle.

[Matt89]

Originally Posted by CreasyBear

I actually kind of like that we aren't given more obvious reasons to sympathize with Wendy and Danny. In that way, I think it's more subversive and less obvious. The European cut feels less overt and more subtle.

Well, gotta disagree but I respect your (wrong) opinion.

Joking aside, I really wish WB gave us both cuts in 4K as I do like both versions. I didn't see the European cut until like 2008 when it first came out on blu-ray and for a while I preferred it to the US cut, but in recent years I've come to prefer the US cut once again. I still like owning both versions, and I even imported the UK 4K box set because it included both cuts, but the European cut is still the old master with the VC-1 codec and incorrect colours (the pink tennis ball). It wouldn't have been very difficult for WB to seamlessly branch the extended scenes.

~Matt

[Christian Muth]

Originally Posted by CinemaScope

I've only ever seen the European cut, & now I have the 4K, so it should be interesting to see the longer cut (when I'm in the mood to watch it).

I'd love to see the postscript hospital scene at the end that Kubrick cut out. I believe it was in the film for first few showings in America...I wonder if the scene even exists now?

Some years back, the George Eastman House in Rochester, New York, programmed a screening of what they claimed was an original print of THE SHINING that they had in their archive with the hospital coda intact. The news of that screening made quite a stir on-line, but not too long after they announced it, they amended their announcement to say they were showing the final U.S. theatrical cut without the coda instead. It's not clear whether they were just mistaken that the print they had was actually the original version, or if the Kubrick estate/Warner Brothers put a stop to the screening of that original print.

It would be interesting to see what the Copyright deposit print is. In 2014, the Library of Congress screened the copyright deposit print of Michael Cimino's HEAVEN'S GATE, and it turned out to be the original NYC 70mm premiere print (the shipping labels from Technicolor LA to the Cinema 1 in NYC were still on the film cans), and said print has footage in it that's not in ANY home video versions, not even the first MGM VHS release of the "uncut version", which is the closest home video release to that original 70mm print (i.e., the print has the subtitles for the immigrant's dialogue like the VHS, and it ends on the freeze-frame of Averill in the cabin of the boat, not up on the deck).

Chris

[Matt89]

I remember that. It was around 2011/2012. I was was actually gonna make the trek from Toronto to Rochester (not that long a road trip, mind you) with a friend until they announced that the print wouldn’t actually be including the hospital scene. Saved me some gas for sure lol but what a shame. I was so bummed out.

~Matt

[Christian Muth]

Originally Posted by Matt89

I remember that. It was around 2011/2012. I was was actually gonna make the trek from Toronto to Rochester (not that long a road trip, mind you) with a friend until they announced that the print wouldn’t actually be including the hospital scene. Saved me some gas for sure lol but what a shame. I was so bummed out.

~Matt

Me too!

Chris

[TravisTylerBlack]

Regardless of cut preference, I find this to be one of the most infinitely re-watchable films ever made. I’ve popped in my 4K copy countless times over the last couple of years and never grow tired of it. Same with Blade Runner.

[bobbyh64]

I prefer the US cut. It has a bit more buildup and character moments which I feel help the film. One example is Halloran’s introduction when he meets the Torrance family. In the Euro cut he just appears in the kitchen which seems odd to me.

A couple dialogue moments that the Euro cut is missing:

Jack’s line, “Dan, did you get tired of bombing the universe?” Always liked that line.

Danny’s telling his mom, “Danny’s not here, Mrs. Torrance.” That line is iconic and has to be in the film IMO.

[Christian Muth]

Originally Posted by bobbyh64

I prefer the US cut. It has a bit more buildup and character moments which I feel help the film. One example is Halloran’s introduction when he meets the Torrance family. In the Euro cut he just appears in the kitchen which seems odd to me.

A couple dialogue moments that the Euro cut is missing:

Jack’s line, “Dan, did you get tired of bombing the universe?” Always liked that line.

Danny’s telling his mom, “Danny’s not here, Mrs. Torrance.” That line is iconic and has to be in the film IMO.

Yeah, the abrupt cut to Hollarhan with Wendy and Danny in the kitchen is VERY awkward, and the removal of the entire "Danny becoming Tony" scene is another one.

Chris

[dallywhitty]

For years the shorter international cut was the only version I'd seen, and while I liked the film a hell of a lot, I always thought it was marginally overrated. Then I saw the longer cut and I was like, 'Oh, okay, it's a masterpiece.'

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Christian Muth

I read an account, I believe from Leon Vitali, that Warner Brothers asked Kubrick to cut the film down to a more "commercial" length for the European release after THE SHINING "underperformed" at the U.S. box office (it was a hit, but not the blockbuster they wanted), and Kubrick obliged, so it wasn't some big artistic decision on his part, it was purely for commercial considerations, and he never heard Kubrick give a preference for either version. I find it very interesting that the Euro cut comes in at just under 2-hours, a certifiable "commercial" length, and also the cuts were made in such a way that the film didn't require any remixing. They were able to just cut the mixed mag tracks. They discuss that in the link at the bottom of this post. That suggests that Kubrick was looking to cut down the length in the most economical way possible, not necessarily making profound artistic choices in his recut. He was making the cuts in such a way that simply cutting the existing mixed mag tracks could be done without there being abrupt, jarring sound edits audible (although the removal of Wendy seeing the room of skeletons does lead to a bit of a "stutter" in the music track).

I much prefer the longer edit, but there are a couple cuts to the European version that I find effective and an improvement. In particular, the hard cut from Wendy saying "It's just a matter of settling back into the habit of writing every day" and Jack's reaction, directly to the camera slowly pulling back from his ignored typewriter in the Colorado Lounge while he throws the tennis balls against the wall works beautifully. But on the whole, the longer U.S. cut is better IMO.

https://blah-ray.blogspot.com/search...D%20%281980%29

Chris

I doubt they physically cut the OG mag tracks while the US version would continue to remain in circulation (not sure you're saying that but I'll say it anyway) but yeah, it also helped that the movie was cut A/B in visual terms because when doing the shorter version they could unpick all the dissolves and whatnot, they could create pre-print elements for the shorter cut that weren't destructive to the OG version.

That the movie wasn't re-edited at source is most likely why the short version isn't in 4K, as the negative is conformed for the longer cut. It wouldn't have taken a lot of work for Warners to digitally re-edit that scan to match the short version of coursh, but that's aksing too much!

As for version vs version, the shorter cut is what I grew up watching and thought the longer version to be rather boring when I first saw it. I've cheerleaded for the short version for years. But damn, the long version has worked its way into my brain via osmosis or some shit as when I watch the short cut now I'm like "wait, they cut THAT scene?!?".

[philthehip]

I still prefer the shorter cut, I feel it is a more suspseneful movie, but I don't think I could argue it is a better cut, just literally the one I prefer. I like that it is less a ghost story and more ambiguous about the source of the evil.

But again, I think the various reasons people give for their preferred cut all carry merit. It really is a shame that Warner almost silently changed the brief for the 4K release as in the Uk it was billed as both in 4K, and then yeah, it just changed without further mention, and Warner have rebuffed any questions from me, and I am sure others as to why they just flipped the screws and shafted those of us who were looking forward to the shorter cut in 4K.