Poll: Should Sony use DTS-HD Master Audio or Dolby TrueHD?

[PeterTHX]

Well, getting this thread back on track and on topic:

It's been asked why DTS supporters never have to say "it's the mix"...

From the newly reviewed La Femme Nikita (Gaumont edition):

For the US release of La femme Nikita, SONY provided two audio tracks: French Dolby TrueHD 5.1 and English Dolby TrueHD 5.1. For the French release, Gaumont have provided a French DTS-HD Master Audio 5.0 track. Last night, I compared the French Dolby TrueHD 5.1 track with the French DTS-HD Master Audio 5.0 track. I went through a number of different scenes to see whether or not there is a substantial difference between the two but, to be honest with you, aside from a bit of rear channels activity and slightly improved dynamic levels on the French Dolby TrueHD 5.1 track, the two actually sound quite similar. As far as the dialog is concerned, the French DTS-HD Master Audio 5.0 track treats it as well as the French Dolby TrueHD 5.1 track does – it is crystal clear, crisp and very easy to follow. Additionally, I did not detect any disturbing debris, cracks, hissings or dropouts to report in this review. Nonetheless, I favor the French Dolby TrueHD 5.1 track from the SONY release. In my opinion, it is the better one.

So TrueHD is better now, right? Is it the codec, or is it the mix that makes things different here?

Or maybe (because one has a .1 track and one doesn't) that they used different audio masters and so they don't quite sound the same?

I for one think that if they used the exact same audio master they'd sound exactly the same. But what do I know, right?

[Ryu77]

Originally Posted by Krelldog1977

I would not consider you an audiophile for a few reasons...here's one:

You spent over $8000 on blu-rays so far...yet you are using a $350 subwoofer? That's no where near audiophile grade. It's apparent you can afford so much better...

I'm not saying spend $2000 on a sub.....but double what you spent will get you to the next level.

Can I ask, Krelldog... Would you consider yourself an audiophile? From looking at your gallery, I would say you have committed a HT audio sin. First of all the front sound stage is not timbre matched (mixed brand speakers) and the center speaker is, well... Not in the center. Now, I am not saying that you don't have nice gear because you certainly do but I think Anthony P has made some really sensible posts.

It is important to note that someone could be buying audio gear for different reasons. For example, people have different ratios of music vs. movies. For myself, my main set-up (featured in my gallery) is somewhat in this ratio... 40% movies/TV, 35% gaming, 25% music. Which is why I have chosen JBL for this purpose as they have extensive experience in commercial Cinema installations (as does Klipsch). I have another nice set of Mordaunt Short speakers that I use only for music (and the occasional Karaoke binge ). When I watch a movie, I am still more impressed sonically than I am visually. That is not to say that I don't appreciate the stunning clarity that a Blu-ray disc can render. However, I just love to hear some crystal clear dialog that sounds like the person is there in the room speaking to you, or an effects channel providing a sound that literally makes you get off your chair to open the door and check what just happened outside (only to realise it was the damn film again! ), or when the sub booms so violently that the house foundations are challenged... I think you get the point! To me a brilliant audio track is paramount to making a hit film.

I think these days, a new species of audiophile has emerged. We are now seeing people that will spend ridiculous amounts of money on getting an exceptional Home Theater experience. As I sell AV equipment for a living, I see it first hand.

Well on a final note, I guess you could fall into the audiophile category as I am sure stereo music sounds fantastic on that system (as timbre matching no longer relates), especially with that nice California Audio Labs Power Amp.

Edit: JasonR (below) is 100% correct... This thread is going way off topic. It probably should have been closed before it began. The whole TrueHD vs. DTS-HD MA thingy was doomed before it began. They are both exactly the same! Lossless means NO LOSS of quality compared to the master. The only weight to this argument could be the 1536Kbit/s (1509Kbit/s without the headers) DTS core, which I agree is superior to a 640Kbit/s Dolby track.

[JasonR]

This thread has gotten way off track. If this needs to continue, try starting a thread in the home theater section of the forum.


I can see it now.....

Krelldog1977's definition of an audiophile and why you are not one!

[Krelldog1977]

Originally Posted by Ryu77

Can I ask, Krelldog... Would you consider yourself an audiophile? From looking at your gallery, I would say you have committed a HT audio sin. First of all the front sound stage is not timbre matched (mixed brand speakers) and the center speaker is, well... Not in the center. Now, I am not saying that you don't have nice gear because you certainly do but I think Anthony P has made some really sensible posts.

I think these days, a new species of audiophile has emerged. We are now seeing people that will spend ridiculous amounts of money on getting an exceptional Home Theater experience. As I sell AV equipment for a living, I see it first hand.

Well on a final note, I guess you could fall into the audiophile category as I am sure stereo music sounds fantastic on that system (as timbre matching no longer relates), especially with that nice California Audio Labs Power Amp.

Hi Ryu..

I would consider myself one

My center speaker is to be changed when I mount the plasma on the wall. I 'm looking for a used C5 or CC-690 to replace the KEF.

I totally agree with you that a new species of audiophile has emerged, one that seems more focused on HT than on 2-channel listening.


Anyways,
...I can't wait until "Quantum of Solace" gets delivered today! From what I read on the reviews, it represents an outstanding example of lossless audio.

[Tok]

If you go to the sonyrewards blu-ray site you can see the results are quite different there.

Originally Posted by SonyRewardsBlurayclubpoll

On Blu-ray, should Sony Pictures Home Entertainment drop the Dolby 5.1 master-quality audio track and use a DTS 5.1 master-quality audio track instead?

Yes, drop Dolby 5.1 for DTS 5.1
38%
No, I like things the way they are
15%
Wouldn't matter to me either way
42%
Other
5%

Still favoring dts but not quite the slamdunk as here. I guess it is how they view the second and third options.

[ganthc]

Originally Posted by CraigW

If you go to the sonyrewards blu-ray site you can see the results are quite different there.



Still favoring dts but not quite the slamdunk as here. I guess it is how they view the second and third options.

Specifically the third option. Those favoring staying with Dolby seem to see indifference as being a choice to keep things as they are. Those favoring DTS see it as a reason that DTS should be adopted, because those voters won't care anyways. The key is what does Sony think about those voters' opinions?

[Tok]

Originally Posted by ganthc

Specifically the third option. Those favoring staying with Dolby seem to see indifference as being a choice to keep things as they are. Those favoring DTS see it as a reason that DTS should be adopted, because those voters won't care anyways. The key is what does Sony think about those voters' opinions?

But if they think the responses to option 2 are high enough then it might not be worth the trouble. Remember there are some early players that were updated to support TrueHD decoding, but the PS3 is the only early BD player that was upgraded to dts-HD.

Again I don't care, since I can do both and I am impressed with both systems.

[davcole]

Very interesting. I didn't know they had a poll on their own website.

Yes interesting that DTS is not the slam dunk but the majority is apathetic to switching.

Still the ones for no change is only 15%.

[Monkey]

Originally Posted by davcole

Very interesting. I didn't know they had a poll on their own website.

Yes interesting that DTS is not the slam dunk but the majority is apathetic to switching.

Still the ones for no change is only 15%.

Yeah, only 5% higher for "no change" there. So do you have to be a sonyrewards member to vote?

edit: trying to find it to see how many participated so far. hmm can't find it..

[Tok]

Originally Posted by Monkey

Yeah, only 5% higher for "no change" there. So do you have to be a sonyrewards member to vote?

edit: trying to find it to see how many participated so far. hmm can't find it..

Yeah only 5% higher for no change, but about 20% lower for the cry to switch to dts.

These polls really are NOT scientific. And l like you said they are not sharing information with public regarding voting numbers. We have to admit blu-ray.com is probably a small part of the universe. Most are not concerned enough to register post and vote here and the same could be said of the Sony Rewards site, but I would suspect since there is an incentive at the Sony site with rewards points that the number of voters there is higher. But it is just a guess.

[Monkey]

Probably quite a bit higher.. Plus people just voting to get points that don't give a crap either is my guess.

[Tok]

Originally Posted by Monkey

Probably quite a bit higher.. Plus people just voting to get points that don't give a crap either is my guess.

But I think you have to specifically join the Blu portion of the site to vote and there is an option for those who don't care which is used. Neither the poll here or there is very scientific regarding the broader overall BD market. I would give the polls more validity if the results had not varied so widely. But it seems like the in order of preference they are the same: Switch, Don't Care, Don't Switch, Other.

Again I really don't care, but I don't expect to be anymore blown away or underwhelmed with Sony dts-HDMA titles versus their TrueHD titles.

I have a quality 7.1 system with a THX Ultra2 certified receiver that I am sure has more to do with how I feel about the end result in my HT versus which codec was used.

[Monkey]

I've got a Onkyo TSXR 805 (it has THX something certified) (yeah it isn't 10k seperates so I'm not audiophile, lol in some minds ) with some Energy RC 30's and RC-10's speakers that I love. I had a HSU sub but moved into a smaller place so downgraded to 10" sub for now (I miss the 1000 watt beast of the HSU ).

I've skipped out on blu-ray titles due to a lack of lossless audio more than a few times. Audio is a huge part of the experience for me

[ganthc]

Originally Posted by CraigW

But if they think the responses to option 2 are high enough then it might not be worth the trouble. Remember there are some early players that were updated to support TrueHD decoding, but the PS3 is the only early BD player that was upgraded to dts-HD.

Again I don't care, since I can do both and I am impressed with both systems.

Yeah, that is what Penton-Man seemed to indicate as well. Sony is really interested in how first gen player owners feel about the switch, because they would lose the ability to get lossless audio. From what I have seen of the Sony S300/301 thread, there are still quite a few users that have stuck with the tank, and Sony recently did a firmware update for it to speed things up. However, these users are already at a disadvantage with Universal, Fox/MGM, Disney, Lionsgate, and other studios like Summit. Still, I think it's good of Sony to be concerned for these users as well. If there is one benefit to Dolby TrueHD is that every Sony, Panasonic, and Pioneer player has a decoder for it.

[Tok]

Originally Posted by Monkey

I've got a Onkyo TSXR 805 (it has THX something certified) (yeah it isn't 10k seperates so I'm not audiophile, lol in some minds ) with some Energy RC 30's and RC-10's speakers that I love. I had a HSU sub but moved into a smaller place so downgraded to 10" sub for now (I miss the 1000 watt beast of the HSU ).

I've skipped out on blu-ray titles due to a lack of lossless audio more than a few times. Audio is a huge part of the experience for me

That's the same receiver I have also. Don't discount it's abilities. The reason it is such a behemoth is due to its capable power supply. Onkyo is still using a similar design in their newer 876 and 906 models, but unfortunately the 806 was cost cut to include a more typical power supply at its price range. Onkyo was losing too much money on the 805 in an effort to regain market share.

Again don't discount the power of the 805. Is it a seperate? No, but it has got it where it counts and it can easily supply the power needed to fill a decent size room without breaking a sweat.

[Tok]

Originally Posted by ganthc

Yeah, that is what Penton-Man seemed to indicate as well. Sony is really interested in how first gen player owners feel about the switch, because they would lose the ability to get lossless audio. From what I have seen of the Sony S300/301 thread, there are still quite a few users that have stuck with the tank, and Sony recently did a firmware update for it to speed things up. However, these users are already at a disadvantage with Universal, Fox/MGM, Disney, Lionsgate, and other studios like Summit. Still, I think it's good of Sony to be concerned for these users as well. If there is one benefit to Dolby TrueHD is that every Sony, Panasonic, and Pioneer player has a decoder for it.

Which could be used to throw right back at the studios that went dts. Most all of the gen1 hardware can decode TrueHD.

I have a feeling since there is a vocal fanbase that really wants dts and the relatively small number of SA gen1 players that Sony will be switching.

[trans22]

Originally Posted by CraigW

Which could be used to throw right back at the studios that went dts. Most all of the gen1 hardware can decode TrueHD.

I have a feeling since there is a vocal fanbase that really wants dts and the relatively small number of SA gen1 players that Sony will be switching.

I hope your right, please SONY please.

[Monkey]

Originally Posted by CraigW

That's the same receiver I have also. Don't discount it's abilities. The reason it is such a behemoth is due to its capable power supply. Onkyo is still using a similar design in their newer 876 and 906 models, but unfortunately the 806 was cost cut to include a more typical power supply at its price range. Onkyo was losing too much money on the 805 in an effort to regain market share.

Again don't discount the power of the 805. Is it a seperate? No, but it has got it where it counts and it can easily supply the power needed to fill a decent size room without breaking a sweat.

I was being a bit sarcastic I love it, absolute beast

Sound Quality is absolutely superb and has way more power than I need.. Don't even get into all the features. Yes, the power supplys are huge on this monster.

I actually tried out lower end models of Onkyo, and cheaper Denon. The extra power must be doing something as the bass is tighter, vocals sound fuller, never too bright either.

[trans22]

1 point i want to make when choosing which sound you would like SONY to use is that DOLBY is a BRITISH founded company whereas DTS is AMERICAN so maybe you americans can show some patriotism.

[ganthc]

Originally Posted by CraigW

Which could be used to throw right back at the studios that went dts. Most all of the gen1 hardware can decode TrueHD.

Correct. And not just gen 1 players, as the 350 doesn't have an internal decoder for dts-hdma, nor do other gen 2 players.

I have a feeling since there is a vocal fanbase that really wants dts and the relatively small number of SA gen1 players that Sony will be switching.

I think so too, if anything to get consumers to upgrade their players.