Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by bhampton

I did wonder about the Streaming getting better all the time notion.

When and how is it getting better ? ...

Netflix cuts the bandwidth and is now going to have advertisements in a desperate attempt to stay in bussiness. Disney can't live without more adult content so in Europe there's Star which has a lot of what we find on Hulu in the states. My kid watched Fresh via Disney+ and wondered rightfully WTF ?

We see evidence all the time that this streaming experiment isn't a cash cow like people thought it was going to be.

I agree with most of the points you guys made about streaming but Netflix really work wonders with their HD and 4K content. Was watching Stranger Things and it looked fantastic. Detail, colours, clarity etc.. took me by surprise. The best I have seen Netflix shows look to be honest.

But yeah, in general it’s always going to be disc for me. 4K on disc really is something else.

[crutzulee]

Originally Posted by bhampton

This kind of stuff is something you don't understand well but you repeat often.

I can agree there are high quality master source files used to create media.

However how those files are mastered for online or physical media are completely different. This seems to be at the root of your mis-understanding.

Imagine my friend makes a painting. I take a pic of it with my phone and someone takes a picture of it using a high quality SLR camera and a tri-pod and maybe some additional lighting. The painting isn't changed but the results of each of the pictures is very different. The person with better tools and taking better care will capture a better copy.

It's the same with streaming. ... The version they make for commuters to watch on iPad is not crafted the same as as a movie mastered for disc release.

The online version has to be compressed to the maximum because most people have bad connections or want smaller downloads. I know folks who really don't seem to care about the quality of the presentation as long as they get the gist of the story.

I really care about the presentation. Watching the new Dr Strange movie was kind of a drag because I can only imagine how much better it will be presented on disc. On the other hand, A few nights ago I watched Sharkbait which is a Tubi film ... I didn't watch it on Tubi thank goodness but I watched it via Kanopy so I didn't have commercials. The movie was trash actually and barely watch-able but I watch all the shark movies and I tend to have low expectations for most of them. I use streaming for movies I don't care so much about.

Did you find the Dr Strange stream that bad? I didn't watch it myself as I was recovering from AQUAMAN the night before, but my kids watched it last week and really enjoyed the movie AND presentation.

My son had seen it at a premium VIP theater and commented that, despite it being an ATMOUSE track, he preferred the presentation in our HT! While most of his comments were about how much better the sound was at home (specifically bass and overhead effects), he's got pretty good eyes.

As a serious PC gamer with an interest in photography, He's got some pretty expensive camera equipment and keeps his monitor calibrated for photo editing. If the picture was subpar, he would have mentioned. Him and his sister were brutal in their assessment of the movie's CGI...

I'm never going to argue against the superiority of physical disc, and I know that you have better equipment than me, but I am definitely becoming more and more impressed with the quality that I am seeing from some of the streams I have seen lately. I guess I'm becoming one of the great unwashed masses LOL...

[bhampton]

Keep in mind I have a low speed connection so maybe that's one reason streaming looks more like steaming at my primary house.

I have bonded DSL for 25Mbs and to go higher in this area you need comcast and I don't like them at all.

Fiber Optic is always rumored to be coming soon and I'm waiting for that. Fiber Optic internet from AT&T is available at the home in Florida I purchased recently and we signed up right away.

When I can get it at my primary residence I will get it day one.

For me and Dr Strange - I felt the image was soft. When the mirror dimension effects happened it all looked a bit dull to me and I'm convinced the source looks much better.

It sort of reminds me of Far From Home when Mysterio was making all the cool illusions. They looked so much more sharp and stable on Disc which is likely due to less compression.

I certainly have a bias without a doubt but to me streaming does not compete for the higher quality video on disc and the audio from streaming is much worse.

I have access to so much lossless content and while there's an army of folks convinced there is no difference there are also people like me who wear hearing protection to use the vacuum and claim they can hear the difference. I can hear pretty well and I protect my hearing at all times. The Apple Watch has a SPL meter built in that can be set to warn you of high volumes.

Anyway, I'm rambling. Happy Weekend everyone.


-Brian

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by bhampton

Keep in mind I have a low speed connection so maybe that's one reason streaming looks more like steaming at my primary house.

I have bonded DSL for 25Mbs and to go higher in this area you need comcast and I don't like them at all.

Fiber Optic is always rumored to be coming soon and I'm waiting for that. Fiber Optic internet from AT&T is available at the home in Florida I purchased recently and we signed up right away.

When I can get it at my primary residence I will get it day one.

For me and Dr Strange - I felt the image was soft. When the mirror dimension effects happened it all looked a bit dull to me and I'm convinced the source looks much better.

It sort of reminds me of Far From Home when Mysterio was making all the cool illusions. They looked so much more sharp and stable on Disc which is likely due to less compression.

I certainly have a bias without a doubt but to me streaming does not compete for the higher quality video on disc and the audio from streaming is much worse.

I have access to so much lossless content and while there's an army of folks convinced there is no difference there are also people like me who wear hearing protection to use the vacuum and claim they can hear the difference. I can hear pretty well and I protect my hearing at all times. The Apple Watch has a SPL meter built in that can be set to warn you of high volumes.

Anyway, I'm rambling. Happy Weekend everyone.


-Brian

Disc will always be superior.

[cheez avenger]

I watched my 4k disc rental of Morbius last night and it was a stellar demo-worthy disc. The film was fine and simplistic as was expected. I don't get the stupid meme social media backlash it received. It did follow some of the same thematic beats such as Blade and some of the Nolan Batman films, even having a similar score to the Nolan Batman movies. There are two mid credits sequences and no after credit sequence. If the price is lowered to $9.99 at some point I will add it to my collection.

[crutzulee]

Originally Posted by bhampton

Keep in mind I have a low speed connection so maybe that's one reason streaming looks more like steaming at my primary house.

I have bonded DSL for 25Mbs and to go higher in this area you need comcast and I don't like them at all.

Fiber Optic is always rumored to be coming soon and I'm waiting for that. Fiber Optic internet from AT&T is available at the home in Florida I purchased recently and we signed up right away.

When I can get it at my primary residence I will get it day one.

For me and Dr Strange - I felt the image was soft. When the mirror dimension effects happened it all looked a bit dull to me and I'm convinced the source looks much better.

It sort of reminds me of Far From Home when Mysterio was making all the cool illusions. They looked so much more sharp and stable on Disc which is likely due to less compression.

I certainly have a bias without a doubt but to me streaming does not compete for the higher quality video on disc and the audio from streaming is much worse.

I have access to so much lossless content and while there's an army of folks convinced there is no difference there are also people like me who wear hearing protection to use the vacuum and claim they can hear the difference. I can hear pretty well and I protect my hearing at all times. The Apple Watch has a SPL meter built in that can be set to warn you of high volumes.

Anyway, I'm rambling. Happy Weekend everyone.


-Brian

Yeah... anyone reading my posts know how much I hate a rambler...LOL!!!

But I think you and another poster may be on to something about internet quality.

A former Prime Minister once characterized us as a "nation of *****ers and whiners" . While it isn't hard to find a Canadian who'll complain about the COST of internet, you'd be hard pressed to find one concerned about data caps or speed in the home (mobile is a different story). Our heavily subsidized system means that, with few exceptions, most Canadians have access to capless gigabit internet in the home. While all streams are compressed for bandwidth reasons from the originator, there's no concern on the end users part to gimp the stream any further...
Of the streaming I use, NETFLIX has the worst picture and sound quality and even that is more than acceptable for the made for TV fare I use it for on my dinky living room setup (65" TV and soundbar)..

As far as sound is concerned, my kids used to be amazed at my ability to pick out lossy and lossless tracks in the early days of bluray... but once again, perhaps due to age, I do find myself often being impressed by what they can accomplish in the newer DD+ container...

Do the streams of DUNE or the NORTHMAN compare to their disc counterparts....HELL NO...

But for the average drama, rom com... I'm more than happy to watch the stream as early as I can get it and in quality that is more than "just fine"...I don't feel cheated if the content is good enough to warrant a disc purchase later. Seeing it in better quality is just another bonus at that point..

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by alchav21

I don't totally agree with you guys,

not everything these days gets a Physical Release. [/quote]
that was always true and not everything gets a digital release especially on on all the different platforms

Then you also have to consider OOP, and the price for these items will go up.

why? with Physical it is in my collection and I don't care what happens after that. OOP is only an issue with digital because next time you want to see it it is no longer there.

With Streaming you have access to more content, and it comes out a lot sooner than Physical if at all.

the only part that is remotely true in that statement is that sometimes a title might be released digitally first. But who cares? when I do want to see a film ASAP (and that almost never happens) I will go to the theatre because then it does actually come out a lot sooner than both

The same DI is used to make that Digital Streaming or Physical Disc. So where do you think that DI is stored, on a Server where Streaming Files are also stored. Access to that Streaming File is Server to Server, while access to Physical is a Physical Print.

Yes the same DI is used they don't make completely different films for Physical and Digital distribution. The DI is like the name implies (Intermediary) is part of the film creation process just before finishing. What you are thinking about is the film master and that too is the same thing for digital and physical. The master, original data, DI....*(anything the studio wants to save) are all saved on physical media and not on a server because that would be insanely expensive, completely unnecessary, and a lot less reliable. we are not talking books, disks are not printed but replicated and why would it matter?

But the biggest issue with that drivel is that SD and UHD both use the same master, so the same way that it would be insane to imply that the same master means same final quality for different resolution it is ridiculous to assume different encodings at the same resolution must be the same because they are from the same master.

Physical Media will remain as long as there is a good Profit Margin, but looking at the Revenue Report the Average BD Price remains at $20 which includes UHD. It doesn't look like there is a good Profit Margin, and also the reason why Movies and TV Shows come out in DVD and BD and not in UHD!

there will always be good Profit Margin if you need to worry about profit margins then you need to worry about individual retailers that sell physical media and streamers. For example last quarter Disney lost almost 1B$ on their streaming platform, luckily every other aspect of the business like the profit margins from physical media meant that they could afford to do that.

So IMO Streaming Digital is getting better all the time, especially when you have good access to all the Streaming Providers!

did I miss how you explained how it is getting better? Isn't the issue that no one does have good access to all the streaming providers? do have access to Crave, Gem, Tout or ici? just to name a few Canadian providers off the top of my head. That is the difference with physical media (and a region free player) people have access to all the content with streaming no one ever can to all the streaming providers.

[Lee A Stewart]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

there will always be good Profit Margin if you need to worry about profit margins then you need to worry about individual retailers that sell physical media and streamers. For example last quarter Disney lost almost 1B$ on their streaming platform, luckily every other aspect of the business like the profit margins from physical media meant that they could afford to do that.

I am always amazed how so many people - including you - have forgotten that Disney stated, when they first set up Disney+, that they wouldn't be in the black until 2024. Now with their huge growth - that will happen next year - a full year earlier than planned.

It's a shame so may have no conception of how you build a $30 billion a year business. If they did - they would understand that losses come before profits.

Disney+ is an INVESTMENT. And major investments take time to pay off.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by bhampton

Disney can't live without more adult content

Disney has adult content?

We see evidence all the time that this streaming experiment isn't a cash cow like people thought it was going to be.

it is not going anywhere, but I just don't get how many people are oblivious to that reality and then they try to pretend 50 cents of plastic on a 20$ purchase will be a profit hog.

[Lee A Stewart]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

it is not going anywhere, but I just don't get how many people are oblivious to that reality and then they try to pretend 50 cents of plastic on a 20$ purchase will be a profit hog.

That is NOT the cost of a Blu-ray movie. And you know it. Drama Queen!

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by crutzulee

I'm never going to argue against the superiority of physical disc, and I know that you have better equipment than me, but I am definitely becoming more and more impressed with the quality that I am seeing from some of the streams I have seen lately. I guess I'm becoming one of the great unwashed masses LOL...

the discussion might paint with a single brush but not everything is equal.

Each company (provider) needs to do what is right for them. If someone uses K for their content than yes it is digital but it is the same quality as Physical media.

for people outside Canada that needs a bit of context for my next paragraph

[Show spoiler]
Bell is a a telco that now offers fiber TV & payd satelite TV, Videotron and Rogers are Cable co's that now offer internet services. Bell and Videtron (and I think Rogers) offer a few recently released films where instead of traditional PPV that started at fixed times you can now watch them when you want

Now because I live in Quebec I know about Bell Fibe's and Videotron's , but I have never seen Rogers service but assuming it is similar to the other two and that is what you are talking about the quality is not as good as physical but more importantly it is a couple of steps above traditional streamers that are being discussed.

The business model is completely different which is why there is the difference in quality

In this case the selection is limited, they can house the content locally (at the CO)and it does not count for your BW or cap. None of that is true for other streaming companies.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

I am always amazed how so many people - including you - have forgotten that Disney stated, when they first set up Disney+, that they wouldn't be in the black until 2024. Now with their huge growth - that will happen next year - a full year earlier than planned.

It's a shame so may have no conception of how you build a $30 billion a year business. If they did - they would understand that losses come before profits.

Disney+ is an INVESTMENT. And major investments take time to pay off.

1) no I did not forget. I have it marked on my calendar so that i can ask where those huge profits are.

2) it would be a lot more believable if in Q1 they said the losses would triple in Q2 and not make excuses for why after the fact

3) " Now with their huge growth - that will happen next year - a full year earlier than planned."

a) wasn't that said dusing the pandemic when they looked at the growth they had because everyone was stuck at home withy many (either becasue they saved mony on transportaion, going out, traveling , govournmnet hand outs to people that lost their job) had a bit more money to spend on home entertainment?

b) If I remember correctly you said you worked at a data center. Can you explain to me what happens when there is growth? that to me means growth in costs as well. Also growth means growth in programming costs.

4) If you tell us they spent 8B to buy a plot of land, build a data center on it, buy servers for the service, I would 100% agree with what you said it is an INVESTMENT. But that is not the case here. tj4he ^B is more or less 100% cost. What they paid for sports for ESPN+ last quarter it will need to be paid again next year because no one wants to see last years games, what they paid Amazon to host the service will be there next year because they own the infrastructure.....

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

That is NOT the cost of a Blu-ray movie. And you know it. Drama Queen!

do you mean that I am not charged 20$ you are right sometimes I buy films for a lot less. Do you mean the replicator won't charge the studuio 50 cents, I agree with that too I did not say that was the cost of manufacturing the disk I said there is 50 cents of plastic in one, the reality is that it is much less then that but I wanted to over estimate it. At the end of the day the replicator, the distributor, the retailer... will all take their take from that 20$. But the same is true no matter what. when you buy a film on Vudu or Apple do you think the 20$ goes to the studio.

[crutzulee]

Where I live in Toronto, both BELL and ROGERS compete aggressively on tech if not price... I'm with ROGERS on their top ignite plan. The deal is fine with me because I have EVERYTHING with them (complete 4K TV package, 4 cell phones, home phone and gigabit internet). In my neighborhood, the BELL guy was at my door telling me that they're now offering 3X gigabit speeds at an "introductory " price... I'm sure the offering is similar in Quebec... either way, nobody is concerned with data caps for the streaming services...The VOD offerings from ROGERS, though limited to mostly newer titles have some pretty decent quality.

[Lee A Stewart]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

1) no I did not forget. I have it marked on my calendar so that i can ask where those huge profits are.

So what was this?

You stated:

For example last quarter Disney lost almost 1B$ on their streaming platform, luckily every other aspect of the business like the profit margins from physical media meant that they could afford to do that.

2) it would be a lot more believable if in Q1 they said the losses would triple in Q2 and not make excuses for why after the fact

Please cite the quote so we can all read it and draw our own conclusions.

3) " Now with their huge growth - that will happen next year - a full year earlier than planned."

a) wasn't that said dusing the pandemic when they looked at the growth they had because everyone was stuck at home withy many (either becasue they saved mony on transportaion, going out, traveling , govournmnet hand outs to people that lost their job) had a bit more money to spend on home entertainment?

No. Growth was (and is) to be based on the number of countries Disney+ is to be available in. Facts - not speculation.

b) If I remember correctly you said you worked at a data center. Can you explain to me what happens when there is growth? that to me means growth in costs as well. Also growth means growth in programming costs.

Doesn't Disney use AWS (Amazon) to host their streaming services? I know others do. What those deals consist of - they are not made public.

4) If you tell us they spent 8B to buy a plot of land, build a data center on it, buy servers for the service, I would 100% agree with what you said it is an INVESTMENT. But that is not the case here. tj4he ^B is more or less 100% cost. What they paid for sports for ESPN+ last quarter it will need to be paid again next year because no one wants to see last years games, what they paid Amazon to host the service will be there next year because they own the infrastructure.....

Business 101 - More $ on the Credit side of the balance sheet than the Debit side = Profit.

[bhampton]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

Disney has adult content?

Desperate times call for desperate measures. In Europe Disney includes Star which has a lot of what goes to Hulu here in the USA (ie - not adult content exactly but like a song that throws in the F word so that it can be labeled as explicit and therefore get a lot more attention some movies will throw a boob or bun shot just to keep people tuned in.)

Here in USA, they added Jessica Jones right to D+. They added a system so you can control the content per user.

I knew and they knew they would need some spicy stuff to stay in business. It's just the way it is.

Anything to try to make the next big thing. I think they even hired Lee to promote it.

Sadly they had to betray all that they are .... but then, it's just business.

[bhampton]

Originally Posted by crutzulee

Do the streams of DUNE or the NORTHMAN compare to their disc counterparts....HELL NO...

It should be illegal to watch movies like that on bad systems. Same for No Time to Die. If you watched that on your phone or a plane you didn't get the experience you only got a part of it.

My entire iTunes library (1252) is 5TB. Most HD iTunes movies would fit on a DVD (under 2 GB)

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

I am always amazed how so many people - including you - have forgotten that Disney stated, when they first set up Disney+, that they wouldn't be in the black until 2024. Now with their huge growth - that will happen next year - a full year earlier than planned.

It's a shame so may have no conception of how you build a $30 billion a year business. If they did - they would understand that losses come before profits.

Disney+ is an INVESTMENT. And major investments take time to pay off.

Always around the corner.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by bhampton

Desperate times call for desperate measures. In Europe Disney includes Star which has a lot of what goes to Hulu here in the USA (ie - not adult content exactly but like a song that throws in the F word so that it can be labeled as explicit and therefore get a lot more attention some movies will throw a boob or bun shot just to keep people tuned in.)

Here in USA, they added Jessica Jones right to D+. They added a system so you can control the content per user.

I knew and they knew they would need some spicy stuff to stay in business. It's just the way it is.

Anything to try to make the next big thing. I think they even hired Lee to promote it.

Sadly they had to betray all that they are .... but then, it's just business.

meant as a joke for a split second before reading further the idea of porn jumped in my mind adult content is sometimes used as a euphemism for it (at least here).

[crutzulee]

Originally Posted by bhampton

It should be illegal to watch movies like that on bad systems. Same for No Time to Die. If you watched that on your phone or a plane you didn't get the experience you only got a part of it.

My entire iTunes library (1252) is 5TB. Most HD iTunes movies would fit on a DVD (under 2 GB)

I watched both DUNE and THE NORTHMAN on VOD first before eventually buying both discs. All screenings were done in the same system. I sit 9 feet away from a 130" A/T scope screen with a 7.4.4 ATMOS sound system enhanced with tactile transducers built into my chairs. I was blown away by the streams when I saw them and was then even MORE blown away by the disc presentations that followed