Stand alone CD Player vs. BD/DVD Player

[Ryu77]

I've just begun researching the merits of having a dedicated CD Player. I've heard it mentioned many times that a dedicated CD Player is superior for music CD playback...

As I have become interested in higher quality audio equipment, the why to the above question has interested me.

I have learnt that it is to do with the laser assembly and the amount of error etc.. However, I can't help but question this theory. Isn't data simply data? Meaning as long as those 1's and 0's get there, they can't be any different to the original. For example if I copy a CD full of photo's and then copy the copy over and over (as long as I keep the disc clean), wouldn't the photo's still look the same from the original? How does the laser in my PC drive affect this? What resides on a CD is digital audio... So if my BD Player bitstreams this information to my AVR, what makes that data any worse off than a dedicated CD Player doing so?

I could understand a dedicated CD Player sounding better due to its superior DAC's and pre-amp stage but if I am bitstreaming, doesn't that mean my AVR is taking care of all this?

I guess my real question is, would I benefit from a dedicated CD Player? If so, why?

I do want the absolute best quality music reproduction possible.

[zicmubleu]

Originally Posted by Ryu77

I've just begun researching the merits of having a dedicated CD Player. I've heard it mentioned many times that a dedicated CD Player is superior for music CD playback...

As I have become interested in higher quality audio equipment, the why to the above question has interested me.

I have learnt that it is to do with the laser assembly and the amount of error etc.. However, I can't help but question this theory. Isn't data simply data? Meaning as long as those 1's and 0's get there, they can't be any different to the original. For example if I copy a CD full of photo's and then copy the copy over and over (as long as I keep the disc clean), wouldn't the photo's still look the same from the original? How does the laser in my PC drive affect this? What resides on a CD is digital audio... So if my BD Player bitstreams this information to my AVR, what makes that data any worse off than a dedicated CD Player doing so?

I could understand a dedicated CD Player sounding better due to its superior DAC's and pre-amp stage but if I am bitstreaming, doesn't that mean my AVR is taking care of all this?

I guess my real question is, would I benefit from a dedicated CD Player? If so, why?

I do want the absolute best quality music reproduction possible.

Playback of a data file in a PC uses error checking to determine if all the data was correctly read and is timing independent. The bitstreaming of a A/V device is just that, a stream of data without any significant error checking, no rereads, etc. Furthermore there is a timing issue involved, the player is sending some timing information which is part of the data flow, if the data is read off the media at the wrong speed the information would be presented in the wrong time, at least up to a point. There are internal clocks in the AVR to get the timing signal corrected but the source is still a major part of the timing of the data. Other members will no doubt give you more ideas about the quality of the players affecting the bit streaming, but hopefully you can see that there is more to playing back A/V than simple reading of the bits. Without the error checking you would normally get in a data file all sorts of issues can crop up such as bad reads, extraneous light and reflections, etc.

[Ryu77]

Thank you for your reply zicmubleu...

So with that in mind, would it be fair to assume that if music was stored on a HDD or solid state memory, that if transferred to an AVR via a digital transport interface such as SPDIF (coax or optical) or HDMI, then it would be excluded from such concerns?

[Travis]

I've always heard a dedicated mid-priced CD player is superior to the highest price DVD player. Also a good 2 channel hi-fi amp is supposed to be better than any AVR.

I don't really know. I use my AVR and DVD player or PS3 for music. Have you read the reviews of speaker wire talking about the level of treble from one wire to another. Wow, those guys must have great ears.

Some people swear there is a big difference. I was looking at a Rotel CD player a year ago but didn't go with it because I watch movies a hell of a lot more than I listen to music. Couldn't see spending $600 on something I use once in a while that may only be a bit better than my DVD player.

Another thing that people swear will make a big difference in the sound is better stands and using Vibrapods or IsoNodes or other vibration absorbers. Maybe you can look into this before buying a dedicated CD player.

[Texitura]

If you happen to have a Playstation 1 hanging around, you might already have a great CD player.

http://www.stereophile.com/cdplayers/708play/

[Grevlin]

I plugged in a regular DVD player that I had laying around. I use it for regular DVD's and Cd's to keep the wear down on my PS3.

[Ryu77]

Hmmm... The above posts are interesting. I do have an original PSX console. I will have to give it a try.

In regards to wear and tear on my PS3, that is not a concern as I also have a dedicated BD Player. To be honest, wear and tear is not my main concern, I just want the best experience with each form of entertainment I wish to enjoy, be it music, movies or gaming etc. If something breaks down, I will simply repair it or replace it. I don't see the point of not using something to its fullest potential just because it might wear out. Isn't that why you buy something in the first place (to enjoy it)? It will eventually be superseded by better technology anyway.

Originally Posted by Travis

I don't really know. I use my AVR and DVD player or PS3 for music, can't hear a difference between them. Sounds good to me, maybe my ear isn't that picky. Have you read the revies of speaker wire talking about the level of treble from one wire to another. Wow those guys must have great ears.

Some people swear there is a big difference. I was looking at a Rotel CD player a year ago but didn't go with it because I watch movies a hell of a lot more than I listen to music. Couldn't see spending $600 on something I use once in a while that may only be a bit better than my DVD player.

Another thing that people swear will make a big differrnce in the sound is better stands and using Vibrapods or IsoNodes or other vibration absorbers. Maybe you can look into this before buying a dedicated CD player.

Travis, speaker does make a difference but I don't believe it is to the extent that some people make out. I have invested in good quality speaker cables (see my gallery) and I do believe it is better than using regular, lower gauge wire.



Vibration isolators are also important for higher end equipment as the less vibration transfer between equipment and speakers ensures accurate reproduction of music. Most of my equipment came fitted with adequate vibration isolation material.

[CasualKiller]

The PS1 requires some soldering and a few electronic shop parts before it's a real CD player.

If you wanted CD audio that will blow away any cd player in the sub 500.00 category rip your CD's to Flac and playback via PS3 Media Server on your PS3.

I have a 400.00 CD player in my sig and the flac files blow it away in both detail and depth.

The program I use, 100% free:

http://www.exactaudiocopy.de/

[Intamin]

I was using my ps3 for cd playback and it was satisfactory. I then started using my hd DVD player for CDs because I picked up a dedicated 2 channel preamp. When both were connected to my avr, they sounded about the same. The preamp made a huge difference. I then spent close to 2k on my NAD M5 and it again made an improvement. Everything sounded crisper, and I had better imaging and bass. I'm a big fan of separate cd players, and I don't think you'd have to spend too much on one to hear a difference, but that's just my ears.

[Headphone Czar]

Originally Posted by Ryu77

I've just begun researching the merits of having a dedicated CD Player. I've heard it mentioned many times that a dedicated CD Player is superior for music CD playback...

As I have become interested in higher quality audio equipment, the why to the above question has interested me.

I have learnt that it is to do with the laser assembly and the amount of error etc.. However, I can't help but question this theory. Isn't data simply data? Meaning as long as those 1's and 0's get there, they can't be any different to the original. For example if I copy a CD full of photo's and then copy the copy over and over (as long as I keep the disc clean), wouldn't the photo's still look the same from the original? How does the laser in my PC drive affect this? What resides on a CD is digital audio... So if my BD Player bitstreams this information to my AVR, what makes that data any worse off than a dedicated CD Player doing so?

I could understand a dedicated CD Player sounding better due to its superior DAC's and pre-amp stage but if I am bitstreaming, doesn't that mean my AVR is taking care of all this?

I guess my real question is, would I benefit from a dedicated CD Player? If so, why?

I do want the absolute best quality music reproduction possible.

The 'best' will always cost you.. I prefered my HD DVD player over my Dedicated SACD Sony player.. The 595.. I was a bit surprised, since I expected a upgrade in SQ, IMO it was a downgrade.. I would like to get a better BRP then my PS3, that will also provide better CD playback & HD audio.. The Pioneer & Panasonic look good in that regard, but Oppo seems like the real deal.. Great picture.. Excellent sound reproduction.

[Travis]

What is the best all-round macine for playing CD, SACD, DVD (all regions), Blu-ray and even DVD-Auidio (I have 1 disc)?

For almost 10 years I was very happy with my multi-region Pioneed DV-655A ,which played everything, (except Blu-ray) and had enough inputs and outputs for anyone, (except HDMI).

I'm thinking of trying to get an Oppo DV-980H for everything except Blus because don't know of any machine that plays everything well.

[JasonR]

http://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-bdp-83/

[Travis]

What about DTS HD MasterAudio? Let the AVR decode it? The Oppo seems perfect and has everything, except the DTS MA feature.

I've heard that it is better to let the player decode. The only receivers that decode as well as players are the highest-end models which cost a fortune.

edit: I read the webpage too quickly, because it lists DTS HD, I thought it was just DTS HD (High Resolution) not Master Audio. Oppo does decode all formats.

[BIslander]

Originally Posted by Travis

What about DTS HD MasterAudio? Let the AVR decode it? The Oppo seems perfect and has everythiing, except the DTS MA feature.

The new Oppo decodes dts-MA.

I've heard that it is better to let the player decode. The only receivers that decode as well as players are the highest-end models which cost a fortune.

It doesn't matter where the decoding takes place. Decoding is a mechanical process of unzipping a compressed file, turning it back into the original PCM. Player decoding facilitates mixing in secondary audio. But, that's its only advantage.

[Johnny Vinyl]

Originally Posted by Travis

What is the best all-round macine for playing CD, SACD, DVD (all regions), Blu-ray and even DVD-Auidio (I have 1 disc)?

For almost 10 years I was very happy with my multi-region Pioneed DV-655A ,which played everything, (except Blu-ray) and had enough inputs and outputs for anyone, (except HDMI).

I'm thinking of trying to get an Oppo DV-980H for everything except Blus because don't know of any machine that plays everything well.

Received my Oppo DV-980H last week and I am very impressed with its performance for CD/SACD so far. Have yet to try out DVD as I've been too busy doing audio comparisons against my PS3.

Early result? The Oppo DV-980H blows the PS3 out of the water! Amazing quality for such a small price!

John

[Travis]

John,

Great to hear about the 980H. I'm thinking if I get something sent to me I'd feel better about the player with the lower price tag. (damaged or having repairs down the road). Even with the shipping the 980 is a steal.

The reviews of 980H make me very confident in the BDP-83. I heard it is a Chinese/San Fran joint company. Don't know why it isn't in Taiwan yet, everything is made in China now. Is it available in stores in Canada. Or did you order it from the US?

[Travis]

The Rotel RCD-1072 comes highly recommended from my Kiwi friend. He claims it made a big difference in his system, and a DVD player and many other CD players can't sound as good. His system includes a turntable, a tube amp, a pre-amp, a REL sub and Spendor speakers. I feel my all-in-one approach with an AVR and PS3 don't compete well on the 2-ch level.

He is a Hi-Fi guy, and he has no interest in Home Theater; our friendship suffers because of this.

[Johnny Vinyl]

Originally Posted by Travis

John,

Great to hear about the 980H. I'm thinking if I get something sent to me I'd feel better about the player with the lower price tag. (damaged or having repairs down the road). Even with the shipping the 980 is a steal.

The reviews of 980H make me very confident in the BDP-83. I heard it is a Chinese/San Fran joint company. Don't know why it isn't in Taiwan yet, everything is made in China now. Is it available in stores in Canada. Or did you order it from the US?

I was going to order direct from Oppo, but one of our Canadian members (DLS_222) informed me to say that Oppo has 2 Canadian distributors. I bought it from one of those based here in Toronto....excellent transaction. It is NOT available at retail, only through these two distributors.

John

[Travis]

Oppo doesn't have any distributors in Taiwan. I'm really not keen to pay $614 for the Blu-ray player + Shipping and Handling, then possibly have to deal with it arriving in pieces or more likely having it serviced down the road.

The 980H sounds like it is it for me. It will play my region-1 DVDs, SACDs, and, the topic of this thread, do a good job with CDs (and do a better job with CDs than my PS3). $238.50 including shipping is great, and I don't worry about the future repairs or problems as much. If it dies, it dies. The cost of shipping it to the states for repairs will probably not be worth it, especially after the 1 year warranty is up.

[Johnny Vinyl]

Originally Posted by Travis

Oppo doesn't have any distributors in Taiwan. I'm really not keen to pay $614 for the Blu-ray player + Shipping and Handling, then possibly have to deal with it arriving in pieces or more likely having it serviced down the road.

The 980H sounds like it is it for me. It will play my region-1 DVDs, SACDs, and, the topic of this thread, do a good job with CDs (and do a better job with CDs than my PS3). $238.50 including shipping is great, and I don't worry about the future repairs or problems as much. If it dies, it dies. The cost of shipping it to the states for repairs will probably not be worth it, especially after the 1 year warranty is up.

I've almost finished my comparison/review of the Oppo vs PS3 and I know you'll be happy with it. Especially from the CD/SACD side of things. I need to watch a few more movies to give a proper opinion about both machine's upscaling abilities...so far it looks very close. Keep in mind though, that I am much more atuned to the audio side then the video side.

John