Caligula (1979) (The Imperial Edition)

[Surge92]

Originally Posted by dallywhitty

As excited and curious as I am for Caligula MMXX, I'm really gonna miss Bruno Nicolai's score. Isis' Pool is a stunner.

CALIGULA (1979) SOUNDTRACK (CD1) || 12 - Isis' Pool. - YouTube

Shit, I'm going to miss seeing the iconic bleeding coin logo. It looks like they created new title artwork for this release.

[Dubstar]

Originally Posted by DukeTogo84

Do we have any idea who is going to release this in the US?

Cult Epic did a tweet and instagram posting today (??)

[jackmovie]

Looks like Cult Epics will release the new version?

https://twitter.com/CultEpics/status...26261332140032

[PowellPressburger]

I’ve decided I’m just going to look at this new cut as a crazy fan edit.

It would be nice of they release a box set with multiple cuts.

But I agree some of those new 4K shots looks horrendously blah.

[dallywhitty]

Originally Posted by Dubstar

Cult Epic did a tweet and instagram posting today (??)

Originally Posted by jackmovie

Looks like Cult Epics will release the new version?

Please tell me they've come a long way, lmao. I've got their BD release of Stay As You Are and it looks horrendous.

[leoganzi]

Originally Posted by dallywhitty

Please tell me they've come a long way, lmao. I've got their BD release of Stay As You Are and it looks horrendous.

Cult Epics kind of worries me, tbh, as their encode still leaves a lot to be desired. Their P.O Box Tinto Brass has an atrocious encode, too.

Why not from Vinegar Syndrome!

[dallywhitty]

They also posted "More info tomorrow" on their Instagram, omg.

Originally Posted by leoganzi

Cult Epics kind of worries me, tbh, as their encode still leaves a lot to be desired. Their P.O Box Tinto Brass has an atrocious encode, too.

Why not from Vinegar Syndrome!

I honestly figured it'd be either VS or Arrow releasing it. Oh, what could have been!

[Protozoid]

Definitely odd that such a small company is releasing such a notable cult classic. Caligula practically advertises itself and a nice new set would surely see strong sales.

So what happened?

[Metro1962]

Does not feel you with much confidence then.

[dallywhitty]

Guess we'll know later today. It might not even be for MMXX - they could just be capitalising on it by re-releasing the existing master of the theatrical cut. Hopefully that's not the case, just seems strange we'd have info about the home video release before we know when the film's gonna hit the big screen.

[Surge92]

Originally Posted by dallywhitty

Guess we'll know later today. It might not even be for MMXX - they could just be capitalising on it by re-releasing the existing master of the theatrical cut. Hopefully that's not the case, just seems strange we'd have info about the home video release before we know when the film's gonna hit the big screen.

Apparently, it's not for MMXX. Thomas Negovan posted on Reddit that the new cut hasn't been licensed to any labels, although Umbrella did inquire about it.

[Ruined]

Too bad this cant replace the old OOP release that goes for $$$. Sounds like two totally different movies.

[dallywhitty]

Cult Epics just announced a crowdfunder for a book about the films of Tinto Brass. I also noticed yesterday's FB post of the Caligula poster was captioned "Chapter 13," so yeah, I guess they're not releasing the film.

[bigshot]

I wonder if different people own the original cut than this new one. Maybe Guccione sold the movie to a distributor. Perhaps the reason they're using all unused takes and replacing the score is because they're trying to reclaim ownership of the film by creating a new version that they own that doesn't use any elements contained in the original film..

[dallywhitty]

Originally Posted by bigshot

I wonder if different people own the original cut than this new one. Maybe Guccione sold the movie to a distributor. Perhaps the reason they're using all unused takes and replacing the score is because they're trying to reclaim ownership of the film by creating a new version that they own that doesn't use any elements contained in the original film..

You're really overthinking this, lmao. Penthouse funded Caligula and they've funded the new restoration/reconstruction/whatever you want to call it. Tbh there's probably at least some shots/takes in MMXX that we've already seen in the existing versions of the film, but it's not like the restoration team were using it as a frame of reference, so how could they know for sure? It's been edited by scratch after all.

And the score was always gonna be replaced, even when Alexander Tuschinski was attached to the project. Remember that post-production of the original film was hijacked by Guccione - the score, ADR, editing, everything was done by his rule because he'd already fired Brass.

[Protozoid]

Originally Posted by dallywhitty

You're really overthinking this, lmao. Penthouse funded Caligula and they've funded the new restoration/reconstruction/whatever you want to call it. Tbh there's probably at least some shots/takes in MMXX that we've already seen in the existing versions of the film, but it's not like the restoration team were using it as a frame of reference, so how could they know for sure? It's been edited by scratch after all.

And the score was always gonna be replaced, even when Alexander Tuschinski was attached to the project. Remember that post-production of the original film was hijacked by Guccione - the score, ADR, editing, everything was done by his rule because he'd already fired Brass.

I asked the guy in Reddit who supervised the scanning of the negative. He said they realized early in the editing that they weren't using much/any seen footage, so they decided to just commit to not using any at all. He said it's no exaggeration: not a single frame of footage was used that appears in previous versions.

[Surge92]

Originally Posted by Protozoid

I asked the guy in Reddit who supervised the scanning of the negative. He said they realized early in the editing that they weren't using much/any seen footage, so they decided to just commit to not using any at all. He said it's no exaggeration: not a single frame of footage was used that appears in previous versions.

I saw your post and his reply on there. Tinto Brass supposedly had three cameras set up side by side, so, even though the shots used may be new, I'm sure a lot of them will be similar to what was in the original cut, like the shot of Caligula and Nerva walking down the corridor, and the shot of the soldiers about to rush Caligula after Chaerea stabs him.

[BurningAstronaut]

Originally Posted by dallywhitty

Cult Epics just announced a crowdfunder for a book about the films of Tinto Brass.

I hope it's as thorough and informative as the Jess Franco books by Thrower! Anyway, I signed up to be notified when the campaign launches.

[bigshot]

Originally Posted by dallywhitty

You're really overthinking this, lmao. Penthouse funded Caligula and they've funded the new restoration/reconstruction/whatever you want to call it.

They made the film originally, but that doesn't mean they still own the distribution rights. Independent films are often sold off to distributors because the independent producers don't have the facilities to distribute the film themselves. That's how we end up with Janus Films and Cohen Media Group owning the rights to the films in their library even if they didn't make the film.

I can see a lawyer type doing an end run by using outtakes to create an alternate version of the film, retitling it as a different film, and claiming that they own the rights to it, even if they don't own the rights to the original release. The copyright to the new film would technically be an "unpublished work". The actors' contracts would have been with Guccione, so they are safe there. The copyright to the music must have been transferred to the distributor so they could release soundtrack albums if they want. That's why the music is being replaced. If this is the case, we won't be seeing a package with the new cut bundled with the original one.

I'm trying to think of a reason why an editor would deliberately avoid using Brass's select takes. Rights issues are the only reason I can think of. They are avoiding the new version having the copyright to the original as an "underlying work".

[dallywhitty]

Originally Posted by Protozoid

I asked the guy in Reddit who supervised the scanning of the negative. He said they realized early in the editing that they weren't using much/any seen footage, so they decided to just commit to not using any at all. He said it's no exaggeration: not a single frame of footage was used that appears in previous versions.

I feel bad for the guys running the Movie Censorship site who are gonna have to outline all the differences between the two cuts.

Originally Posted by BurningAstronaut

I hope it's as thorough and informative as the Jess Franco books by Thrower! Anyway, I signed up to be notified when the campaign launches.

I'm probably gonna sit this one out. Mainly because I'm still waiting on another crowdfunded Caligula-related hardback book (the one which keeps being pushed back to tie into the debut of MMXX), but also because while I like the other Brass films I've seen, Caligula is the only one I'm a superfan of.

Originally Posted by bigshot

They made the film originally, but that doesn't mean they still own the distribution rights. Independent films are often sold off to distributors because the independent producers don't have the facilities to distribute the film themselves. That's how we end up with Janus Films and Cohen Media Group owning the rights to the films in their library even if they didn't make the film.

I can see a lawyer type doing an end run by using outtakes to create an alternate version of the film, retitling it as a different film, and claiming that they own the rights to it, even if they don't own the rights to the original release. The copyright to the new film would technically be an "unpublished work". If that's the case, we won't be seeing a package with the new cut bundled with the original one.

I'm trying to think of a reason why an editor would deliberately avoid using Brass's select takes. Rights issues are the only reason I can think of. They are avoiding the new version having the copyright to the original as an "underlying work". The actors' contracts would have been with Guccione, so they are safe there. The copyright to the music must have been transferred to the distributor so they could release soundtrack albums if they want. That's why the music is being replaced.

I think you just have a very cynical outlook on this project and nothing I say will make you feel otherwise, but whatever, it's no biggie. The 1979 unrated theatrical version is still out there in all its ****-covered glory for us to appreciate forever even if MMXX doesn't tick all the boxes for what our ideal re-cut of Caligula might look like.