Heat 4K UHD (1995)

[Tom Sharky]

It apparently had the intended effect, as "Heat" 4k UHD is the #1 best seller on Amazon among movies & tv:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/movies-tv


It's also gone back up to a more normal price.

[dorian]

Originally Posted by jakthelion312

Am I the only one who thinks the 4K looks fine, and thinks the complaints of this being “too dark” are a bit overblown?

It is most definitely dark but that was clearly Mann's intention.

There's a widespread misunderstanding of HDR & SDR. People think HDR is when a film has highlights that exceed 300 nits or so. Even SDR can achieve 1000 nit highlights and greater so long as the display is capable. The issue is that the code values get stretched relative to peak white so you need a greater bit depth to avoid banding (Dolby claims 14 bits for 10,000 nits).

This is the entire premise behind the Perceptual Quantizer/ST 2084 EOTF (HDR as we know it). The PQ EOTF is an absolute standard; Code values are absolutely tied to light levels. PQ uses the Barten model instead of a gamma curve as it closer simulates human vision and allocates far more code values to the shadows. This way PQ needs less bit depth than SDR to eliminate banding and is future proof as the EOTF accounts for displays upto 10,000 nits (lol).

The absolute nature of HDR has the benefit of truly preserving filmmaker intent but doesn't account for the different viewing environments a consumer may have.

[rocknblues81]

Can't make up my mind if I want to keep this. Even at 4 bucks.

The blu ray looks good, the artwork and slip looks better. I don't really like the idea of the movie being darker. Its almost worth it just for the case that could be used for another movie I guess.

[Telemachus]

Heat on UHD looks great, I don't see any issue unless it comes out there was a mastering defect, not every UHD is going to burn your eyes out. Blade Runner 2049 also looks dim but good disc as well

[GiorgioV]

Originally Posted by dorian

It is most definitely dark but that was clearly Mann's intention.

There's a widespread misunderstanding of HDR & SDR. People think HDR is when a film has highlights that exceed 300 nits or so. Even SDR can achieve 1000 nit highlights and greater so long as the display is capable. The issue is that the code values get stretched relative to peak white so you need a greater bit depth to avoid banding (Dolby claims 14 bits for 10,000 nits).

This is the entire premise behind the Perceptual Quantizer/ST 2084 EOTF (HDR as we know it). The PQ EOTF is an absolute standard; Code values are absolutely tied to light levels. PQ uses the Barten model instead of a gamma curve as it closer simulates human vision and allocates far more code values to the shadows. This way PQ needs less bit depth than SDR to eliminate banding and is future proof as the EOTF accounts for displays upto 10,000 nits (lol).

The absolute nature of HDR has the benefit of truly preserving filmmaker intent but doesn't account for the different viewing environments a consumer may have.

I am no expert, but 'dark' is a fairly simple concept. And I know is that, out of the hundreds of 4k discs I own (and I watch them all in the same - dark - environment) this disc stuck out as impossibly dark. All the others did not require any settings adjustment.
So if you tell me Mann wanted It to look that (cr@ppy) way, I believe you. It still sucks bad. But please do not come and tell us it is our fault because we do not get 'nits', 'quantizer', and so forth.

[Trekkie313]

Originally Posted by Telemachus

Heat on UHD looks great, I don't see any issue unless it comes out there was a mastering defect, not every UHD is going to burn your eyes out. Blade Runner 2049 also looks dim but good disc as well

The lack of color is the biggest issue for me.

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by Telemachus

Heat on UHD looks great, I don't see any issue unless it comes out there was a mastering defect, not every UHD is going to burn your eyes out. Blade Runner 2049 also looks dim but good disc as well

It looks like there might have been a settings error in the home video department because someone here posted a section of a "fixed" 4k version with standard HDR mastering levels and BAM! the movie looked a lot more normal again and not like even the daylight scenes were shot behind sunglasses. They didn't even have to do a shot by shot adjustment, just a global change and it snapped into place.

[Fjodor2000]

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

It looks like there might have been a settings error in the home video department because someone here posted a section of a "fixed" 4k version with standard HDR mastering levels and BAM! the movie looked a lot more normal again and not like even the daylight scenes were shot behind sunglasses. They didn't even have to do a shot by shot adjustment, just a global change and it snapped into place.

Interesting! Any link to that?

[Telemachus]

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

It looks like there might have been a settings error in the home video department because someone here posted a section of a "fixed" 4k version with standard HDR mastering levels and BAM! the movie looked a lot more normal again and not like even the daylight scenes were shot behind sunglasses. They didn't even have to do a shot by shot adjustment, just a global change and it snapped into place.

Yeah I saw that, it's curious, but not the first time someone "fixed" something to look different, could probably do it to a lot of discs. If Mann dialed it down on purpose then it is what it is. Some VinSyn discs have HDR that's cooked like a roasted pig but I kind of like it because it's their style.

[GiorgioV]

Originally Posted by Trekkie313

The lack of color is the biggest issue for me.

Yeah, forgot about that one

[lgans316]

Originally Posted by dorian

It is most definitely dark but that was clearly Mann's intention.

There's a widespread misunderstanding of HDR & SDR. People think HDR is when a film has highlights that exceed 300 nits or so. Even SDR can achieve 1000 nit highlights and greater so long as the display is capable. The issue is that the code values get stretched relative to peak white so you need a greater bit depth to avoid banding (Dolby claims 14 bits for 10,000 nits).

This is the entire premise behind the Perceptual Quantizer/ST 2084 EOTF (HDR as we know it). The PQ EOTF is an absolute standard; Code values are absolutely tied to light levels. PQ uses the Barten model instead of a gamma curve as it closer simulates human vision and allocates far more code values to the shadows. This way PQ needs less bit depth than SDR to eliminate banding and is future proof as the EOTF accounts for displays upto 10,000 nits (lol).

The absolute nature of HDR has the benefit of truly preserving filmmaker intent but doesn't account for the different viewing environments a consumer may have.

You must like Platoon then which preserves filmmakers intent.

Gone are the days I stopped worshipping creative intent. Doesn't mean I am looking for pop and cranking up brightness and colours but some have been unnecessarily tampered to satisfy their own egos.

Personally for me Heat doesn't deserve that HDR sticker lol.

[dorian]

Originally Posted by GiorgioV

But please do not come and tell us it is our fault because we do not get 'nits', 'quantizer', and so forth.

I'm not saying it's your fault you fell for the HDR marketing hype, nor do I care about your personal feelings towards filmmaker intent.

I explained the technical differences between HDR & SDR. If you want a brighter presentation, stick to the blu-ray and crank up the luminance to your heart's content. The only way to change the luminance on HDR content is to deliberately break the EOTF.

[Mierzwiak]

Originally Posted by dorian

The only way to change the luminance on HDR content is to deliberately break the EOTF.

Heat is not HDR content so f*ck the EOTF

[jtu128]

Originally Posted by rocknblues81

Can't make up my mind if I want to keep this. Even at 4 bucks.

The blu ray looks good, the artwork and slip looks better. I don't really like the idea of the movie being darker. Its almost worth it just for the case that could be used for another movie I guess.

You can buy 4k cases on eBay for less than $4 each

[bilbofett]

Originally Posted by Telemachus

Heat on UHD looks great, I don't see any issue unless it comes out there was a mastering defect, not every UHD is going to burn your eyes out. Blade Runner 2049 also looks dim but good disc as well

BR2049 is one of those where the director "hates" HDR and it was done in post, where that disc is BARELY HDR, if at all, but simply SDR in an HDR container.

[bhampton]

BR2049 looks amazing and I guess Ana De Armas is largely to credit.

[Mierzwiak]

Originally Posted by bilbofett

BR2049 is one of those where the director "hates" HDR and it was done in post, where that disc is BARELY HDR, if at all, but simply SDR in an HDR container.

But it still has plenty of contrast (I mean, come on, it's Deakins) which can't be said about Heat. Which is awful, because there's plenty of contrasty, stunning scenes / shots in it, at least in theory.

[mdhaus]

Originally Posted by jakthelion312

Am I the only one who thinks the 4K looks fine, and thinks the complaints of this being “too dark” are a bit overblown?

I didn't have a huge problem with it, either. For me, it was worth the upgrade.

[Matt89]

Yeah, it's a lot dimmer than your average UHD that's for sure, but I also thought this looked mostly fine on my setup. Plus with the UB820 you get the HDR optimizer, which certainly helps on a title like this, even though I thought it looked fine even without adjusting the HDR brightness.

[Mierzwiak]

Originally Posted by Matt89

Plus with the UB820 you get the HDR optimizer, which certainly helps on a title like this, even though I thought it looked fine even without adjusting the HDR brightness.

Panasonic's HDR Optimizer (which DOESN'T work on titles like Heat) and HDR Settings are two different options.