Captain America: The First Avenger Review Thread (Spoilers)

[Diesel]

I can't believe this movie is still about 3 years away

[vegeta88]

Originally Posted by Diesel

I can't believe this movie is still about 3 years away

I can't believe how hyped I am for a movie 3 years away.
I'm kind of new at being in the loop for these films; I started when the Spider-Man 3 trailer came out about a year before the film and now this. I guess this is what we get for being nosey

[koontz1973]

Originally Posted by vegeta88

I guess this is what we get for being nosey

A fine line with being nosey. To little and you may lose interest, to much and you may destroy your ability to enjoy the film.

[jadedeath]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

no, I am just not retarted.

I'm not sure if you're trying to convince me of that or not...

how is that a super power? Let me ask you this, guy has asthma, startys running, gets an attack and can’t breath, (maybe even falls to the floor), takes a pump and starts running, instant strength and power, right? Superpower? Guy takes anabolic steroids, he can run better, pick up more weight then he could otherwise do, superpower?

Alright Sunshine, you want to argue semantics, let's play.

How exactly does someone with Asthma going to take a puffer and near instantly become Olympic caliber in performance?

Oh wait, that doesn't happen does it?

As for Anabolic steroids, that happens AFTER training which takes years, not days. Also, if you take the steroids and don't train, then you don't get much {if any} increase at all.

Doing human stuff (even if exceptionally good) is not a superpower.

I never said it was, but Captain America does have superpowers {if you note GreenScar's picture link.

X-ray vision is a super power, invulnerable to gun shots is a superpower, making webs and clinging to walls is a super power, flying is a superpower, turning green and inhumanly strong is a superpower, commanding lightning is a super power…. Wearing a red and blue suit and using a shield is not a super power, wearing a robotic armour is not a super power….

If it were as simple as someone picking up a shield and wearing a red, white, and blue suit, I would agree with you.

But you happen to have two of the biggest comic-geeks on this site disagreeing with your assessment. Take that for what it's worth.

Logan

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by GreenScar

I would opine that they're Super Powers because they weren't his own powers. I don't think that Steve Rogers would be able to accomplish what he could've with out the serum. Because it was a transformation it's Super (not his own innate ability). It's probably semantics really, it can be agreed that what Cap can do physically is something Steve Rogers would never be able to accomplish on his own merits. (including growing his brain tissue)

agree,what he can do is thanks to the serum. The issue is that if we apply your definition of superpowers is that

1) superman has no superpowers (they are all innate because of his alien metabolism)

2) a person taking steroids or asthma meds has superpowers (since these chemicals help them achieve what they could not otherwise)

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by jadedeath

How exactly does someone with Asthma going to take a puffer and near instantly become Olympic caliber in performance?

Oh wait, that doesn't happen does it?

I am guessing you never saw anyone with Asthma, had a friend in high school who could barely run (out of breath real soon) until he got diagnosed with Asthma and he got his inhaler and made the track team. Not exactly Olympic performances, but a humongous improvement none the less

As for Anabolic steroids, that happens AFTER training which takes years, not days. Also, if you take the steroids and don't train, then you don't get much {if any} increase at all.

so then we agree,

Abilities
Captain America had mastered the martial arts of American-style boxing and judo, and had combined these disciplines with his own unique hand-to-hand style of combat. He had also shown skill and knowledge of a number of other martial arts. He engaged in a daily regimen of rigorous exercise (including aerobics, weight lifting, gymnastics, and simulated combat) to keep himself in peak condition. Captain America was one of the finest human combatants Earth had ever known.

he has no superpowers, just like with steroids, the training + the chemical soup made him what he is.




I never said it was, but Captain America does have superpowers {if you note GreenScar's picture link.



If it were as simple as someone picking up a shield and wearing a red, white, and blue suit, I would agree with you.

But you happen to have two of the biggest comic-geeks on this site disagreeing with your assessment. Take that for what it's worth.

Logan[/QUOTE]

[GreenScar]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

agree,what he can do is thanks to the serum. The issue is that if we apply your definition of superpowers is that

1) superman has no superpowers (they are all innate because of his alien metabolism)

2) a person taking steroids or asthma meds has superpowers (since these chemicals help them achieve what they could not otherwise)

I think this has escalated much higher than anyone intended it to. You are both right with what you're trying to explain. The only difference is how it applies to Captain America (Steve Rogers).

What gives it away for me is the fact that he grew brain tissue. I'm not sure that's a human condition (besides during initial womb development). You are right that Cap is human. Peak human. Perfect human. Unfortunately that's impossible. No human can be Cap without the Super serum and the vita-ray treatment he went through.

Everything you said about asthmatics and such is true. The chemicals they take makes them able to do things they wouldn't be able to do otherwise they are enhanced. But these are some of Caps abilities (that sets him apart from the examples you've provided IMO):

• has on an occasion run a mile in little over a minute (almost 60 mph) when under duress.
• He could exert himself at peak capacity for an hour without rest before showing any signs of fatigue.
• His enhanced metabolism allowed him to heal from injury or disease faster than humans.
• Rogers had exceptionally keen eyesight and hearing. Captain America once stated that he was able to dodge bullets because he "sees faster than them"

I just don't think these are things any human could do. I do agree that he is human, but he is indeed a prefect human (physically)...and that in and of itself makes him super-human. Again, it's fine that we disagree. Like I said it's semantics.

[Diesel]

What in the world is going on in here

[vegeta88]

Originally Posted by Diesel

What in the world is going on in here

Big debate. While I have my opinions, these guys have been at it for a while and it looks like they know what they are doing.

By the way, I think he is a superhero and I think extra strength, agilty, speed, and so on are superpowers, even if somewhat minor compared someone who can lift a small continent to space

[GreenScar]

I'm out. It's a point of view kind of thing.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by GreenScar

No human can be Cap without the Super serum and the vita-ray treatment he went through.

agree, I never said he was not special and just an average joe all his parts have become "the perfect example" of the best a human can be. Obviously that is not normal. That is why they picked him to be CA.

Everything you said about asthmatics and such is true. The chemicals they take makes them able to do things they wouldn't be able to do otherwise they are enhanced.

I am not saying the same thing jadedeath said since his abilities where chemicaly induced and without the serum he would not be CA, that counts as super powers, you said born with means not SP, not born with it means SP. That is why I brought Asthma or steroids into the discussion obviously as drugs they don't have the same effect (or the world would be extremely different). my point is, for example, Ben Johnson set a world record in the Olympics a few years back, making him faster then any other human and ,it was found out right after, that he did it because of steroids, would that make his peed a super power? Like I pointed out the official Marvel site says

Originally Posted by marvel

The Super-Soldier formula that he had metabolized had enhanced all of his bodily functions to the peak of human efficiency.

and

Originally Posted by Marvel

but generally performed just below superhuman levels for most of his career.

I just don't think these are things any human could do.

obviously, no real human can do what he does
1) most humans would need to specialize to be even close to perfect, so they would be far from it for others (the person who has the endurance to be the best marathoner won't have the strength to be a champion weightlifter the burst speed to be a sprinter....)

2) even if a human where to be the best possible they would still not be perfect or at the peek of what a perfect human body can do.

this is the issue with what you said. You said his constitution (healing) is a super power. You said before innate means it is not a superpower. By what you said Wolverine does not have a SP (his power of healing is innate) even though he can be shot at point blank through the heart and survive, but because CA might not get a cold for as long as some other guy but it was chemically induced it is a super power.

[GreenScar]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

agree, I never said he was not special and just an average joe all his parts have become "the perfect example" of the best a human can be. Obviously that is not normal. That is why they picked him to be CA.

I am not saying the same thing jadedeath said since his abilities where chemicaly induced and without the serum he would not be CA, that counts as super powers, you said born with means not SP, not born with it means SP. That is why I brought Asthma or steroids into the discussion obviously as drugs they don't have the same effect (or the world would be extremely different). my point is, for example, Ben Johnson set a world record in the Olympics a few years back, making him faster then any other human and ,it was found out right after, that he did it because of steroids, would that make his peed a super power? Like I pointed out the official Marvel site says


and




obviously, no real human can do what he does
1) most humans would need to specialize to be even close to perfect, so they would be far from it for others (the person who has the endurance to be the best marathoner won't have the strength to be a champion weightlifter the burst speed to be a sprinter....)

2) even if a human where to be the best possible they would still not be perfect or at the peek of what a perfect human body can do.

this is the issue with what you said. You said his constitution (healing) is a super power. You said before innate means it is not a superpower. By what you said Wolverine does not have a SP (his power of healing is innate) even though he can be shot at point blank through the heart and survive, but because CA might not get a cold for as long as some other guy but it was chemically induced it is a super power.

Awesome! We all agree!

[PS3-Playb3yond]

Ofcourse he is super human. Anyone who takes a punch from the Hulk and survive is a super human lol.

[jadedeath]

Originally Posted by PS3-Playb3yond

Ofcourse he is super human. Anyone who takes a punch from the Hulk and survive is a super human lol.

Now there's evidence I think we can all get behind.

Logan

[vegeta88]

Besides Captain's trademark boomerang type sheild I really hope we get something in the movie like the classic line from the Ultimates...

[Show spoiler]Captain America: "Surrender? Do you think this letter on my head stands for France?

... so awesome...

Anything anyone else want?

[koontz1973]

Originally Posted by vegeta88

[Show spoiler]Captain America: "Surrender? Do you think this letter on my head stands for France?

[cflames89]

Originally Posted by vegeta88

Besides Captain's trademark boomerang type sheild I really hope we get something in the movie like the classic line from the Ultimates...

[Show spoiler]Captain America: "Surrender? Do you think this letter on my head stands for France?

... so awesome...

Anything anyone else want?

Well, if they are trying for an international audience, I am not sure we will get something like that.

[Diesel]

Originally Posted by vegeta88

Besides Captain's trademark boomerang type sheild I really hope we get something in the movie like the classic line from the Ultimates...

[Show spoiler]Captain America: "Surrender? Do you think this letter on my head stands for France?

... so awesome...

Anything anyone else want?

that is hilarious!


Speaking of the shield, I have been waiting for an excuse to use this picture for a looong time:

Attachment 7000

I always found that hilarious.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by PS3-Playb3yond

Ofcourse he is super human. Anyone who takes a punch from the Hulk and survive is a super human lol.

I checked a few of the comics where they met (on opposite sides) and I did not see anyplace where he got a punch which needed super healing (or what ever you are implying) can you tell me what particular issue/scene you are thinking about?

[jlaavenger]

My only question is will Captain America have the classic look he sported in the first Captain America movie? Will he have the wings on his mask. I really hope so. For me the skull cap without the wings just doesn't look right.