The Bullet Train (1975) [Eureka | Eureka Classics] - April 24, 2023

[DukeTogo84]

Looks like Discotek "fixed" the colors.

[John Earls Umbrella]

Just watched the Eureka. Nice set of extras but PQ not the best. I’m in for the Discotek if it’s an improvement.

[Gowho]

Originally Posted by DukeTogo84

Looks like Discotek "fixed" the colors.

New translation also confirmed.

https://twitter.com/dubudavid/status...07864300146827

Every prior release of this film has used subs that are very heavily based on Toei's own export script which was missing a lot of things & got some stuff wrong. Our translation is now vastly improved & should make for a better watching experience, along w/my new color correction!

[John Earls Umbrella]

Does anyone know if this will be the 2K restoration like the Eureka?

[latehong]

Originally Posted by John Earls Umbrella

Does anyone know if this will be the 2K restoration like the Eureka?

Discotek Media hasn't exactly said that, but the fullscreen color correction comparisons certainly look like that's the case.

[Show spoiler]
Eureka


Discotek


Eureka


Discotek


Eureka


Discotek


Eureka


Discotek

[John Earls Umbrella]

Eureka should really have got this right. They put out a nice set with a slip cover, booklet and good extras but mess up the main thing we are buying it for. I like this movie a lot so it’s probably a double dip job for me.

[dubudavid]

The source is the same 2K restored master as Eureka used. To be fair, the color grade on their set isn't their fault, it's how it came from Toei. So Eureka just used what they were given. The color was the same on our master originally before we went and changed them back to a more natural grade you'd normally find with Japanese films from this era.

[Takuma]

Originally Posted by dubudavid

The source is the same 2K restored master as Eureka used. To be fair, the color grade on their set isn't their fault, it's how it came from Toei. So Eureka just used what they were given. The color was the same on our master originally before we went and changed them back to a more natural grade you'd normally find with Japanese films from this era.

Great work and I'm looking forward to this release.

I wonder why Toei won't share their own version with foreign companies. The version Toei has been airing on Toei Channel for at least 5 years now has a different colour grade without the green push. It's on next month again:

https://www.toeich.jp/program/1TT000000509/202310

[Show spoiler]

Originally Posted by Takuma

Well this is very, very odd. Toei Channel has been airing a 4K remaster on TV (down-converted to 2K) since 2019. I recorded it two years ago. So why is the 2023 Eureka release being touted as "2K restoration of the original film elements"? And why has the Eureka turned teal while the TV master has much more natural colors?

I took a few screencaps of my recording with MPC and compared them to DVD Beaver and Caps a Holic caps.

Twilight Time (DVDBeaver)


Eureka (DVDBeaver)


Toei Channel (TV) (screencap by me)


Twilight Time (DVDBeaver)


Eureka (DVDBeaver)


Toei Channel (TV) (screencap by me)


Twilight Time (Caps a Holic)


Subkultur (Caps a Holic)


Toei Channel (TV) (screencap by me)


I'm not sure how did this happen. How did we go from Toei's natural looking 2019 4K remaster to Eureka's 2023 teal edition? Did Toei send it to them like that? I hope Discotek will fare better. They released Shogun’s Samurai last year, and that disc at least looked more or less the same as Toei’s 4K that airs on TV, though I haven't done a comparison.

[Show spoiler]

Originally Posted by Takuma

In the meantime, here are a few more screen caps to compare with the BD.com review screen caps.

Eureka (BD.com)


Toei Channel (TV) (me)


Eureka (BD.com)


Toei Channel (TV) (me)


Eureka (BD.com)


Toei Channel (TV) (me)


Eureka (BD.com)


Toei Channel (TV) (me)


And one I found for Mifune

Eureka (BD.com)


Toei Channel (TV) (me)

[dubudavid]

My guess is that it's the same base scan, but they didn't do as much work for the TV version while they wanted to push this newly graded version for home video perhaps?

Whatever it is, it's not faithful to how the film was originally presented. Films that old never had such stylized grading in Japan. Things were usually just balanced and natural, so that's what I went with.

[Takuma]

Originally Posted by dubudavid

Whatever it is, it's not faithful to how the film was originally presented. Films that old never had such stylized grading in Japan. Things were usually just balanced and natural, so that's what I went with.

That is absolutely correct. I say this as someone who lives in Japan and has viewed over two hundred 35mm prints of Japanese films over the past 10 years (including more than 100 Toei films, including Bullet Train).

[Yasujiro Ozu]

Another wasted opportunity. Restored in 4K and released in sub-par. Someone with sense please release in native restored resolution with ONLY proper 152min version with all extras on second disc..........and oh yeh, all in a steel-book to call it a day. Why they bother with the English version is beyond me. Only film buffs will buy this so get it right.
Rant over.

[ravenus]

Originally Posted by Yasujiro Ozu

Another wasted opportunity. Restored in 4K and released in sub-par.

There have been 4K restorations since at least more than a decade. Scanning and restoration at 4k is primarily an archival requirement. Whether something is released or not in a 4K format depends on the perceived economics. And no, film buffs do not necessarily have the latest and greatest technical equipment.

[omgitsgodzilla]

Originally Posted by Yasujiro Ozu

Why they bother with the English version is beyond me. Only film buffs will buy this so get it right.

Some "film buffs" are actually interested how films reached, were adapted for, or were presented to different markets and audiences. Some of these perverts even try to evaluate such versions on their merits instead of writing them off wholesale for being altered in any way. They have this degenerate curiosity about a film's history and context as a cultural product crossing over into other cultures rather than as a single, static object.

[Yasujiro Ozu]

Originally Posted by ravenus

There have been 4K restorations since at least more than a decade. Scanning and restoration at 4k is primarily an archival requirement. Whether something is released or not in a 4K format depends on the perceived economics. And no, film buffs do not necessarily have the latest and greatest technical equipment.

The perceived economics is such that the average person walking through a shopping mall would not walk out with this title. It is a deliberate purchase choice. We are in the realm of the film buff and therefore this individual will pay more for such a title. In any case one does not need to be rich to own a very basic 4K TV or player. Run a survey here if you like with the question if they would purchase in 4K or standard Blu if they had a choice, I bet you that 95% minimum would say 4K.

[Yasujiro Ozu]

Originally Posted by omgitsgodzilla

Some "film buffs" are actually interested how films reached, were adapted for, or were presented to different markets and audiences. Some of these perverts even try to evaluate such versions on their merits instead of writing them off wholesale for being altered in any way. They have this degenerate curiosity about a film's history and context as a cultural product crossing over into other cultures rather than as a single, static object.

This film was altered purely due to economics as are most of them (for the English market). The run time was far to long for the American audience: read attention span. Far as I'm aware the English version is not restored and I ask you then, which version are you most likely to watch? People buying this film have only seen the English film and therefore would gravitate towards the standard release Japanese version with much better character development.
Asking for the 'full' version does not a pervert make.

[ravenus]

Originally Posted by Yasujiro Ozu

The perceived economics is such that the average person walking through a shopping mall would not walk out with this title. It is a deliberate purchase choice. We are in the realm of the film buff and therefore this individual will pay more for such a title. In any case one does not need to be rich to own a very basic 4K TV or player. Run a survey here if you like with the question if they would purchase in 4K or standard Blu if they had a choice, I bet you that 95% minimum would say 4K.

That's an entitled perspective. Many people have HDTV's that are older (sometimes even a decade or more), but perfectly functional. Not everyone is a pioneer that has to invest in the latest and greatest - Some also wait for a more mature 4K ecosystem to crystallize before they replace their existing setups. For folks that don't have large screens and fully calibrated home theater environments, the difference between a well-encoded BD and UHD from the same master source is often incremental than the radical difference between a DVD and BD, so there's not as much of a pressure to upgrade everything. There's a reason why boutique companies don't put out UHD editions of all their releases, and why Criterion even now releases DVD's. If UHD's of boutique label releases were selling more than BD's we'd be hearing of it from more authoritative sources than your personal opinion.

Originally Posted by Yasujiro Ozu

This film was altered purely due to economics as are most of them (for the English market). The run time was far to long for the American audience: read attention span. Far as I'm aware the English version is not restored and I ask you then, which version are you most likely to watch? People buying this film have only seen the English film and therefore would gravitate towards the standard release Japanese version with much better character development.
Asking for the 'full' version does not a pervert make.

The previous person wasn't asking for the full version to be omitted / replaced by the export cut, but alternate versions sometimes make for interesting comparisons. Of course, it goes without saying that the presentation of the director's original version should be given first priority presentation-wise, and export versions can be treated like bonus features.

[Yasujiro Ozu]

Originally Posted by ravenus

That's an entitled perspective. Many people have HDTV's that are older (sometimes even a decade or more), but perfectly functional. Not everyone is a pioneer that has to invest in the latest and greatest - Some also wait for a more mature 4K ecosystem to crystallize before they replace their existing setups. For folks that don't have large screens and fully calibrated home theater environments, the difference between a well-encoded BD and UHD from the same master source is often incremental than the radical difference between a DVD and BD, so there's not as much of a pressure to upgrade everything. There's a reason why boutique companies don't put out UHD editions of all their releases, and why Criterion even now releases DVD's. If UHD's of boutique label releases were selling more than BD's we'd be hearing of it from more authoritative sources than your personal opinion.

I'm not sure what mature 4k ecosystem you're waiting for because what we now have is the best it's going to be if you're referring to hardware. On the sales part of the ledger sales and titles are up. Although it is now and will forever remain at best a very niche market............until it too dies which I'm sure is dreaded by all here. Have a read of people's comments on the home page regards new releases. Whenever a certain title is given the 4K treatment they jump for joy. In any case I never said that the poster above should abandon all to hell and acquire as you put it the "latest and greatest". I myself have a very modest setup with a middle of the road Sony TV. No surround and no sound bar.
As I posted previously lets have a survey and ask the good people here given a choice between a Blu-ray and 4k disc, which would they purchase.

Originally Posted by ravenus

The previous person wasn't asking for the full version to be omitted / replaced by the export cut, but alternate versions sometimes make for interesting comparisons. Of course, it goes without saying that the presentation of the director's original version should be given first priority presentation-wise, and export versions can be treated like bonus features.

I do agree that sometimes alternate versions do have utility and as I posted already I did not say not to release it only that it is made available on a second disc for the primary discs P/Q purposes. After rereading my posts though, maybe I did not make myself clear enough, my bad.

[dubudavid]

The English version on our (Discotek's) disc is, in fact, recut using the newly restored (and in our case, color corrected) footage, so it is a restored version of it except for a couple of shots at the beginning and end where no other source footage for English titles could be located.

Also, from a historical perspective, I think it's important to preserve these things how international audiences first saw them. Far too many Japanese companies ignore these international versions, so it's nice to be able to do one justice ourselves. If you want to just watch the original Japanese version, it's there, and it's the main, prioritized feature. We want audiences of all kinds to have the choice.

As for no 4K, the master we received from Toei was not 4K, it was 1080p, so we couldn't do a proper 4K even if we wanted to at this point. This goes for Eureka too, we definitely got the same master as they did. It's ultimately up to Toei in Japan whether or not to do a 4K.

[russweiss1]

My discotek release arrived today out of the blue (never received a shipping notice). I haven't opened the Eureka version but this one is going straight into the watch pile.

[DukeTogo84]

Originally Posted by russweiss1

My discotek release arrived today out of the blue (never received a shipping notice). I haven't opened the Eureka version but this one is going straight into the watch pile.

Where did you order the Discotek release from?