Titanic 4K UHD (1997)

[SpacemanDoug]

Originally Posted by James Luckard

If this is your first time watching a movie in 4K, I'm thrilled you got to watch one of my favorite movies!

That said, be aware that this doesn't look like most other 4K UHDs out there of movies from that era, shot on film.

Cameron did a TON of digital tinkering with the image for this new version. Some people love the work he did, some hate it, and some don't notice it.

Either way, I recommend trying a really nice UHD of a film from the same era that is a more natural scan of a film negative as your next movie.

I'd vote for one of the gorgeous Sony discs like Bram Stoker's Dracula (steelbook version), Gattaca, Hook, Sense and Sensibility, The Remains of the Day, The Mask of Zorro, My Best Friend's Wedding, Air Force One, or pretty much any other major Sony title of the 1990s. They look stunning, and very, very different from Titanic.

To me, at least, Sony (with a few exceptions) is kind of the gold standard for doing 35mm film right on 4K UHD.

made a small tweak to your list of Sony 4K releases, it is the same master but the steelbook version of Dracula corrects the first reel and has the theatrically correct translation subs

that alone to me is a significantly better presentation than the 2017 disk, despite on its own merits still being good

I would somewhat disagree with them being the gold standard though, considering they love to limit their releases of certain titles and they love their light cannon

[James Luckard]

Originally Posted by SpacemanDoug

made a small tweak to your list of Sony 4K releases, it is the same master but the steelbook version of Dracula corrects the first reel and has the theatrically correct translation subs

that alone to me is a significantly better presentation than the 2017 disk, despite on its own merits still being good

I would somewhat disagree with them being the gold standard though, considering they love to limit their releases of certain titles and they love their light cannon

Yep, I almost added the steelbook note, I agree completely.

[mar3o]

Watched the disc in full tonight and indeed it was quite a stunning presentation. Didn't exactly look like a film from the 90's and I normally hate digital tinkering, but in this case, somehow it worked and the image is pretty breathtaking. The HDR was actually rather subdued, other than the flashes later in the film when jack and Rose are in the flooding corridors. The color looked more natural to me than the blu-ray, especially skin tones. The image was still warm early on which I think was always the case, but overall it wasn't as yellow as the old blu-ray. Of course later in the film the pallet changes to cooler blues.

Within the first minute or so of chapter 21, when Cal is confronting Rose the next morning at the table about the night before, the screen appeared to flash dark for just an instant. Both me and my girlfriend spotted it. As she put it, it appeared as though somebody jumped in front of the camera for an instant. The screen didn't turn off, and didn't quite seem to go fully black either, and I didn't lose sound. It didn't look like any disc issue I'd ever seen before, and after the film ended, I played that scene back 3 more times and it didn't happen again. Very odd. I really hope it's not the first sign of my TV going. Maybe it was a random spot of dust on the disc or lens for a moment? No pixellation, it just looked like somebody covered up the camera for a split second.

Anybody else have any odd issues like this with this disc? I usually have no issues with my Panasonic 420 player.

[NL197]

Originally Posted by rocknblues81

Buffy in a Titanic thread. This tread takes way more twists and turns than the movie does. You never know what the topic will be anytime you re-enter the thread.

To be fair both are from 1997, both Fox titles (to a degree), both had a cultural impact (especially) on a younger audience, both are beloved in their own ways.

And Spike would whine about being in the water the whole time for sure.

[Rolling Dice]

Originally Posted by SpacemanDoug

made a small tweak to your list of Sony 4K releases, it is the same master but the steelbook version of Dracula corrects the first reel and has the theatrically correct translation subs

that alone to me is a significantly better presentation than the 2017 disk, despite on its own merits still being good

I would somewhat disagree with them being the gold standard though, considering they love to limit their releases of certain titles and they love their light cannon

What do you mean by "corrects the first reel"?

[SpacemanDoug]

Originally Posted by Rolling Dice

What do you mean by "corrects the first reel"?

For some reason the first reel on the 2017 disk looked like it came from a higher generation element that wasn't the OG negative, despite the fact that the 2015 BD (which used the exact same master) didn't have this issue, but the 2022 disk corrected this and it looks significantly better

https://caps-a-holic.com/c.php?go=1&...199083&i=2&l=1

[escvnte]

Originally Posted by James Luckard

Either way, I recommend trying a really nice UHD of a film from the same era that is a more natural scan of a film negative as your next movie.

I'd vote for one of the gorgeous Sony discs like Bram Stoker's Dracula, Gattaca, Hook, Sense and Sensibility, The Remains of the Day, The Mask of Zorro, My Best Friend's Wedding, Air Force One, or pretty much any other major Sony title of the 1990s. They look stunning, and very, very different from Titanic.

To me, at least, Sony (with a few exceptions) is kind of the gold standard for doing 35mm film right on 4K UHD.

I would also add The Matrix, Men In Black, Pulp Fiction to the list as well, as all these were made using actual camera negatives with very little tinkering.
They look the same as they did when they came out, specially The Matrix (which is close to the V2 "corrected" 35mm scan I saw, color-wise).

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by SpacemanDoug

made a small tweak to your list of Sony 4K releases, it is the same master but the steelbook version of Dracula corrects the first reel and has the theatrically correct translation subs

that alone to me is a significantly better presentation than the 2017 disk, despite on its own merits still being good

I would somewhat disagree with them being the gold standard though, considering they love to limit their releases of certain titles and they love their light cannon

As far as major studios are concerned Sony *are* the gold standard for me. Others mess around with DNR, most eschew OG audio and several don't bovver with Dobly on catalogue titles at all. Compression is also a big issue for some. Most don't put on new extras either while Sony like to dig out deleted scenes and other bits and bobs not featured on the blurays, even if it's just a theatrical trailer.

Yes, I don't like their Light Cannon™️ HDR grading - though the DV metadata certainly helps, when available - but apart from that there's no other studio doing work that consistently comes close to Sony's level of excellence. They are certainly not perfick, some of those recent audio issues were worrying, but they tick so many boxes otherwise - OG audio, OG subs, new and existing special features, excellent compression, little to no obvious DNR usage, outliers like Cliffhanger excluded - that everyone else would have to work doubly hard to beat them. And it's not magick either, it's just a commitment to simple competence.

[SpacemanDoug]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

As far as major studios are concerned Sony *are* the gold standard for me. Others mess around with DNR, most eschew OG audio and several don't bovver with Dobly on catalogue titles at all. Compression is also a big issue for some. Most don't put on new extras either while Sony like to dig out deleted scenes and other bits and bobs not featured on the blurays, even if it's just a theatrical trailer.

Yes, I don't like their Light Cannon™️ HDR grading - though the DV metadata certainly helps, when available - but apart from that there's no other studio doing work that consistently comes close to Sony's level of excellence. They are certainly not perfick, some of those recent audio issues were worrying, but they tick so many boxes otherwise - OG audio, OG subs, new and existing special features, excellent compression, little to no obvious DNR usage, outliers like Cliffhanger excluded - that everyone else would have to work doubly hard to beat them. And it's not magick either, it's just a commitment to simple competence.

while I will say their heart is in the right place for OG audio, that aspect is fairly sloppy for them

considering the downmixed audio for Mr. Smith Goes to Washington, the unrestored stereo audio on Fright Night, and the missing cue in the stereo track for Dracula being a few examples and it's really a shame cause they exceed in every other aspect

[Rolling Dice]

Originally Posted by SpacemanDoug

For some reason the first reel on the 2017 disk looked like it came from a higher generation element that wasn't the OG negative, despite the fact that the 2015 BD (which used the exact same master) didn't have this issue, but the 2022 disk corrected this and it looks significantly better

https://caps-a-holic.com/c.php?go=1&...199083&i=2&l=1

Thanks for the information, I had no idea. Glad I bought the steelbook and thank God for this forum. I can't believe I have to spend hours on here because of this kind of BS.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by SpacemanDoug

while I will say their heart is in the right place for OG audio, that aspect is fairly sloppy for them

considering the downmixed audio for Mr. Smith Goes to Washington, the unrestored stereo audio on Fright Night, and the missing cue in the stereo track for Dracula being a few examples and it's really a shame cause they exceed in every other aspect

As I said, the audio side has slipped somewhat, seemed to be around pandemic time when it got really weird, you forgot to mention the out of phase 2.0 audio on the DV Ghostbusters discs plus the unrestored audio on Real Genius, but come on, it's almost laughably churlish to ignore just how far ahead they are of everyone else. For Paramount you hardly get OG audio at all, never mind a botched attempt at it (tho Liberty Valance's mono is a downmix apparently). And people say I'm hard to impress!

[Geoff D]

Oh, and not to excuse their OG sloppiness but it helps that their remixes are generally very faithful so even if the OG is messed up the Atmos isn't the worst thing to have to listen to. Hell, even when they mess up the Atmos AND the OG there's a very listenable 5.1 as a last resort, like on Fright Night.

[SpacemanDoug]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

As I said, the audio side has slipped somewhat, seemed to be around pandemic time when it got really weird, you forgot to mention the out of phase 2.0 audio on the DV Ghostbusters discs plus the unrestored audio on Real Genius, but come on, it's almost laughably churlish to ignore just how far ahead they are of everyone else. For Paramount you hardly get OG audio at all, never mind a botched attempt at it (tho Liberty Valance's mono is a downmix apparently). And people say I'm hard to impress!

Yea I knew the Ghostbusters audio was messed up somehow I just didn't know how exactly (also apparently The Dark Crystal has screwed up audio but not as bad as before the Labyrinth's stereo track isn't legit though idk how it isn't)

How does phase being out of sync work?

[LordoftheRings]

Wish all a Titanik year

[stvn1974]

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

Wish all a Titanik year

You hope we all die a horrible death?

[escvnte]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Oh, and not to excuse their OG sloppiness but it helps that their remixes are generally very faithful so even if the OG is messed up the Atmos isn't the worst thing to have to listen to. Hell, even when they mess up the Atmos AND the OG there's a very listenable 5.1 as a last resort, like on Fright Night.

Sony has always been AHEAD of others, when it came to their Blu-Ray/4k releases.
The very first Blu-Ray discs I ever bought were Underworld and Spiderman, and I remember being so stoked by the amazing crisp image and lossless audio.
So much that after only a week I bought a PS3 to use as a Blu-Ray player.
Paramount, I remember the super-awful M:I 1-3 Blu-Rays with no lossless audio and MPEG2 transfers.
Thankfully they fixed those transfers for 4k. But we had to wait awhile before finally getting some good transfers with lossless audio.
Even Universal had terrible Blu-Ray transfers made from old telecine transfers.

If every studio followed Sony, we would had pristine transfers right away, instead of waiting anniversaries, special releases and Steelbooks, to finally get a proper good-looking release.

Not sure if some studios are just simply being "cheap" and lazy, or they just like to cash-in on re-releases.
Thankfully there are forums like this that exist, so I can decide whether to buy a release or not.

[moviebuff75]

Was the missing cue fixed for the latest Dracula release?

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by moviebuff75

Was the missing cue fixed for the latest Dracula release?

Not that I know of but the 5.1 track is the OG audio if you're concerned.

[captainsolo]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

As I said, the audio side has slipped somewhat, seemed to be around pandemic time when it got really weird, you forgot to mention the out of phase 2.0 audio on the DV Ghostbusters discs plus the unrestored audio on Real Genius, but come on, it's almost laughably churlish to ignore just how far ahead they are of everyone else. For Paramount you hardly get OG audio at all, never mind a botched attempt at it (tho Liberty Valance's mono is a downmix apparently). And people say I'm hard to impress!

I hadn't heard about Ghostbusters but yes there's definitely no original audio on Liberty Valance sadly.
You have to go back to ye olde VHS, 1.33 Laserdisc w/ analog mono and early days of home video non hifi tapes for the actual mono sadly. Plus that UHD transfer is so weird I still can't quite figure out what's going on...

Sony does the best job overall of the studios unless they go light cannon. The Ranown western 4K masters are freaking glorious and basically untouched even not touching up of the dupe transitions and I just sit there going omg yas they're perfect.

Originally Posted by James Luckard

That said, be aware that this doesn't look like most other 4K UHDs out there of movies from that era, shot on film.
Cameron did a TON of digital tinkering with the image for this new version. Some people love the work he did, some hate it, and some don't notice it.
Either way, I recommend trying a really nice UHD of a film from the same era that is a more natural scan of a film negative as your next movie.

I'd vote for one of the gorgeous Sony discs like Bram Stoker's Dracula, Gattaca, Hook, Sense and Sensibility, The Remains of the Day, The Mask of Zorro, My Best Friend's Wedding, Air Force One, or pretty much any other major Sony title of the 1990s. They look stunning, and very, very different from Titanic.

To me, at least, Sony (with a few exceptions) is kind of the gold standard for doing 35mm film right on 4K UHD.

That's a good way to put it. I'd suggest people look at say the Criterion UHD of THE TALL T or say maybe one of the Arrow Bruce Lee UHDs.

I am really leery on these Cameron masters. My knee jerk reaction form an archival and purist standpoint is to immediately banish them from my mind but this one seems to be the one where the various sources being used before the crazy new toys were applied was highest in quality when compared to the other sources used on the other Cameron films and thus the insanity going on is masked or hidden to a much greater degree.
Isn't this master of Titanic using the files or masters originally generated for the 3D release process?

[moviebuff75]

The old Blu rays of Titanic still hold up as perfectly fine, don't they?