Titanic 4K UHD (1997)

[SpacemanDoug]

Originally Posted by captainsolo

Isn't this master of Titanic using the files or masters originally generated for the 3D release process?

Yes and no

Yes it is using the same master created for the 2012 BD, no it is not the same as the 3D process master as this title was fortunate (unlike Terminator 2) where two separate masters were created outside of the AR being different

the 3D version had additional changes like objects being slightly shifted and sometimes details like strands of hair would be removed in the 3D master that weren't removed in the 2D OAR version

so yes, while this release does retain the same changes that were applied for the 2012 BD, these changes are moreso to Cameron's current preference instead of anything to do with the 3D conversion

[captainsolo]

Thanks for that! I knew it was a master done somewhere around that 3D process so it makes sense they did a separate 2D one then.
I don’t like Titanic all that much so I’ve just had the LD copies (just standard and 1.33, the DTS is crazy rare) I picked up because I heard there were a few tweaks done over the years in color grading or sound here and there…plus I’m used to having the other Cameron films on LD anyway so I figured I’d complete the set.
I’ll have to check out the previous BD as well.

[SpacemanDoug]

Originally Posted by captainsolo

Thanks for that! I knew it was a master done somewhere around that 3D process so it makes sense they did a separate 2D one then.
I don’t like Titanic all that much so I’ve just had the LD copies (just standard and 1.33, the DTS is crazy rare) I picked up because I heard there were a few tweaks done over the years in color grading or sound here and there…plus I’m used to having the other Cameron films on LD anyway so I figured I’d complete the set.
I’ll have to check out the previous BD as well.

It's just a shame a separate master wasn't created for Terminator 2

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by SpacemanDoug

Yes and no

Yes it is using the same master created for the 2012 BD, no it is not the same as the 3D process master as this title was fortunate (unlike Terminator 2) where two separate masters were created outside of the AR being different

the 3D version had additional changes like objects being slightly shifted and sometimes details like strands of hair would be removed in the 3D master that weren't removed in the 2D OAR version

so yes, while this release does retain the same changes that were applied for the 2012 BD, these changes are moreso to Cameron's current preference instead of anything to do with the 3D conversion

Originally Posted by SpacemanDoug

It's just a shame a separate master wasn't created for Terminator 2

.....but T2 4K isn't the same master as the 3D either. You mentioned things like "objects being moved slightly" and hair being removed for Titanic 3D but that's literally what happens as part of the conversion process as objects have to be offset to create the 3D effect and hair is a nightmare to rotoscope, they weren't just changed/removed on a creative whim.

And if you actually look at T2 3D vs 4K you'll see that the 4K is *not* just one of the 3D eyes presented on its own, as the conversion artefacts like the digital strands of hair on Linda Hamilton in the "morning Dr Silberman" shot (where they've erased some of her hair and painted in some strands to make it easier to control in 3D) are not in the 4K. All the digital tweaks and changes done to T2 on a creative level like the face replacements and goof removals are common to both versions, just as they are common to Titanic's 2K 3D and 4K 2D masters made in 2012.

[lgans316]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

As far as major studios are concerned Sony *are* the gold standard for me. Others mess around with DNR, most eschew OG audio and several don't bovver with Dobly on catalogue titles at all. Compression is also a big issue for some. Most don't put on new extras either while Sony like to dig out deleted scenes and other bits and bobs not featured on the blurays, even if it's just a theatrical trailer.

Yes, I don't like their Light Cannon™️ HDR grading - though the DV metadata certainly helps, when available - but apart from that there's no other studio doing work that consistently comes close to Sony's level of excellence. They are certainly not perfick, some of those recent audio issues were worrying, but they tick so many boxes otherwise - OG audio, OG subs, new and existing special features, excellent compression, little to no obvious DNR usage, outliers like Cliffhanger excluded - that everyone else would have to work doubly hard to beat them. And it's not magick either, it's just a commitment to simple competence.

Time and again I have been saying this. Just let the big studios outsource their remastering and grading to Sony (especially the popular ones). It will feel like humans and pets being in safe hands.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by Riddhi2011

Zane understood the assignment well and made us hate Cal. So, job well done. I loved him as the Phantom.

The Phantom has the greatest line of dialog in all of cinema history...

"No smoking in the Skull Cave."

[Spiritual_Chaos]

Wished at the time that Michael Biehn played Billy Zanes role. Guess I still do.

[Fiffy]

Best Buy has the UHD for $18.99.

[SpacemanDoug]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

.....but T2 4K isn't the same master as the 3D either. You mentioned things like "objects being moved slightly" and hair being removed for Titanic 3D but that's literally what happens as part of the conversion process as objects have to be offset to create the 3D effect and hair is a nightmare to rotoscope, they weren't just changed/removed on a creative whim.

And if you actually look at T2 3D vs 4K you'll see that the 4K is *not* just one of the 3D eyes presented on its own, as the conversion artefacts like the digital strands of hair on Linda Hamilton in the "morning Dr Silberman" shot (where they've erased some of her hair and painted in some strands to make it easier to control in 3D) are not in the 4K. All the digital tweaks and changes done to T2 on a creative level like the face replacements and goof removals are common to both versions, just as they are common to Titanic's 2K 3D and 4K 2D masters made in 2012.

Ah ok, I kept hearing it was the same master for T2, someone going as far as to call the 2D version an "afterthought"

[Fiffy]

Originally Posted by Spiritual_Chaos

Wished at the time that Michael Biehn played Billy Zanes role. Guess I still do.

Nah, Billy Zane was perfect for the role. You just love to hate him.

[jess1581]

Originally Posted by Spiritual_Chaos

Wished at the time that Michael Biehn played Billy Zanes role. Guess I still do.

Eehhh??? Out of all the broad stereotypical characterizations where i thought the italian friend was gonna go BOING! every time he jumped, Billy Zane was at least on point as a snotty rich prick. Even looked the part for an antagonist.

[Spiritual_Chaos]

Originally Posted by SpacemanDoug

Ah ok, I kept hearing it was the same master for T2, someone going as far as to call the 2D version an "afterthought"

I'm pretty sure the whole "Studio Canal wen't rouge and released the 3D version in 2D, sidelining James Cameron without his approval" is false. (Is there any source on this?) And that the mistake is stucking the same end-credits on both versions, not that the 2D-version is something James Cameron never approved.

It's the proto-version of these new transfers.

[RalphoR]

Biehn is better in a heroic role imo. Although, he was very good as the baddie in The Abyss I prefer him as the hero. Billy Zane just oozes the "I want to hit your face" vibe and was perfectly cast as Cal.

[mar3o]

Originally Posted by lgans316

Time and again I have been saying this. Just let the big studios outsource their remastering and grading to Sony (especially the popular ones). It will feel like humans and pets being in safe hands.

Their "light cannon" grades ruin it for me though on my very modest 2016 LG set. The HDR highlights are always blown to hell, even with the Panasonic player optimizer trying to help. So I'm really not a fan of Sony's discs, even though I love that they retain the grain and look of the film. Their over-bright HDR grading ruins it for many of us. Starship Troopers looks awful on my set, blown out and overly harsh.

[mar3o]

Originally Posted by Spiritual_Chaos

Wished at the time that Michael Biehn played Billy Zanes role. Guess I still do.

Nah, Billy Zane was awesome in his part. I never got the criticism for him in this film.

[Spiritual_Chaos]

Originally Posted by RalphoR

Biehn is better in a heroic role imo. Although, he was very good as the baddie in The Abyss I prefer him as the hero. Billy Zane just oozes the "I want to hit your face" vibe and was perfectly cast as Cal.

I haven't seen the film in... eh 10-15 years... but what is quoted above could be why I wished for Michael Biehn and his human/warm characters. To not have an overly cartoony villain that oozes "I want to hit your face" vibes.

[mar3o]

Originally Posted by RalphoR

Biehn is better in a heroic role imo. Although, he was very good as the baddie in The Abyss I prefer him as the hero. Billy Zane just oozes the "I want to hit your face" vibe and was perfectly cast as Cal.

He was great in Tales from the Crypt: Demon Knight.

[punisher]

Originally Posted by Fiffy

Best Buy has the UHD for $18.99.

got my refund/price match via chat real fast just now

thanks for posting

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by SpacemanDoug

Ah ok, I kept hearing it was the same master for T2, someone going as far as to call the 2D version an "afterthought"

A certain someone said it was an afterthought, yes, but they didn't say it used the exact same 3D master. Think of it this way: the same base 'restoration'/final cut inc digital tweaks, goof removals and sharpness/grain processing was created in 2D for both Titanic and T2 respectively, that was the starting point. It was then fed into the 3D-o-matic and Titanic also had a 1.78 version derived from the same restored elements (though they did a 3D 2.39 version as well). The difference with T2 is that they used the dime store version of those sharpness/grain processing systems to restore the movie, stuff that didn't look like total shite in the 3D version while it plays horribly in the 2D versions.

There's something else funky going on with T2's restored 2D versions though, the framing is different between the 1080p and 4K versions and there's at least one bit of grading weirdness in one that isn't in the other. That's also where the sloppiness of the 2D versions feels like an afterthought, that they didn't even decide on one fixed 2D master to generate the 4K and 1080p versions from.

[lgans316]

Originally Posted by mar3o

Their "light cannon" grades ruin it for me though on my very modest 2016 LG set. The HDR highlights are always blown to hell, even with the Panasonic player optimizer trying to help. So I'm really not a fan of Sony's discs, even though I love that they retain the grain and look of the film. Their over-bright HDR grading ruins it for many of us. Starship Troopers looks awful on my set, blown out and overly harsh.

They might have done like 10-15 of them back in those days when 4K HDR was relatively new and Studios probably were still learning. They have reissued many of these to be fair. So I think you are being picky pal.