The Criterion Collection

[dkelly26666]

Originally Posted by Scottie

Part of me thinks that Criterion recently acquired the rights to Apocalypse Now.

The film magically disappeared from being purchasable on all streaming services the other night. And now it seems that the physical 4K is no longer available for purchase from any of the big retailers.

Either Lionsgate is relisting/reissuing everything or another studio has access to the film. Something smells fishy though.

And even though I've got "Apocalyse Now" several times over, I know I'd still buy it again on Criterion, LOL.

Same with Scorsese's "GoodFellas". Bought it many times, would buy it again if it was re-issued by Criterion.

[dkelly26666]

Can SOMEONE please, Criterion Kino Lorber, Lionsgate, anyone???...

Please give us a proper US BD or 4K or Gus Van Sant's "Drugstore Cowboy", this year?

I have a Japanese BD from ages ago, that feels much more like a bootleg than anything else.

This film deserves a real release stateside.

[Professor Echo]

Originally Posted by dkelly26666

And even though I've got "Apocalyse Now" several times over, I know I'd still buy it again on Criterion, LOL.

Why?

[koberulz]

Originally Posted by dkelly26666

can someone please, criterion kino lorber, lionsgate, anyone???...

Please give us a proper us bd or 4k or gus van sant's "drugstore cowboy", this year?

I have a japanese bd from ages ago, that feels much more like a bootleg than anything else.

This film deserves a real release stateside.

[kmhofmann]

Originally Posted by Professor Echo

The post regarding the color differences was made on this site, not on the execrable HTF, but I'm not searching it out because really I don't give a shit what you think or care about trying to change your mind or sway you one way or the other.

Did my own search and found mainly this post:

Originally Posted by Robert Furmanek

Original LP cover:



New grading:



Is this supposed to be a nighttime exterior shot?

I don't think that such a comparison says anything at all about the intended color grade of a movie. Obviously, there might have been stylized lighting, a tone adjustment during contact printing, not to mention that this was ultimately printed on 35mm film, adding its own signature before projection.

There is also a lengthy discussion on HTF (here) about the grading of another Tashlin film, which goes completely off the rails with multiple incorrect statements and zero evidence in favor of one over the other.

In minor support of the restoration color scheme, there is a video essay on the Criterion disc that explicitly talks about the colors (reference).

Originally Posted by Professor Echo

In other words, before going on the attack, make an effort to investigate the issues rather than just jumping at someone at making it incumbent upon them to squash your self-imposed doubts.

Not an attack, just making clear statements that one person's opinion - regardless of their credentials - isn't going to change a great deal about the fact that we don't really know whether the color grading is "correct" or not, whatever that may mean.

In absence of irrefutable evidence to the contrary, we need to go with trusting the people who commissioned this restoration and signed off on it. More likely than not, they have done their research and used references as far as available.

Yes, yes, I know that good references are likely not available for these Tashlin and many other older Fox titles. I also know of the claim that several "blue" Fox restorations have been done by "one guy in New York" (reference). Could be. Does that make them a screw-up? Hard to say, without having direct access to any archival materials, and I would never make any such claim or even close to it.

[dkelly26666]

Originally Posted by koberulz

Oh yeah, I forgot about the Imprint one. And I have many Imprint releases, too.

I've still been holding off to see if a US one is coming, instead of triple dipping again and again, LOL.

[nicwood]

Originally Posted by dkelly26666

Oh yeah, I forgot about the Imprint one. And I have many Imprint releases, too.

I've still been holding off to see if a US one is coming, instead of triple dipping again and again, LOL.

I'd say wait for something better to emerge in the US - maybe a Criterion UHD is in the works after To Die For.
The Imprint BD is VERY disappointing with horrendous encoding. If you like to see the film in the meantime, streaming may be the best option.

[dkelly26666]

Originally Posted by nicwood

I'd say wait for something better to emerge in the US - maybe a Criterion UHD is in the works after To Die For.
The Imprint BD is VERY disappointing with horrendous encoding. If you like to see the film in the meantime, streaming may be the best option.

Oh I've seen the film many times, including in the theater when it was new.

I owned it on VHS tape in the early 90s, I have the Artisan DVD, and I have a Japanese blu ray, that looks murkier than the DVD does.

Anyway, I bet either Criterion or Kino will release it, eventually.

[The Sovereign]

Originally Posted by dkelly26666

Oh yeah, I forgot about the Imprint one. And I have many Imprint releases, too.

I've still been holding off to see if a US one is coming, instead of triple dipping again and again, LOL.

I have the Imprint and while it's nothing special, it's definitely an improvement over my DVD. But I'd happily dip again for an upgraded master. One of my all time favorites that should rightfully have a strong US edition.

[RCRochester]

Originally Posted by kmhofmann

I will criticize Criterion loudly where criticism is due, but there is no screw-up with The Girl Can't Help It. No, not even with the color timing.

Originally Posted by Professor Echo

Have you seen film archivist Bob Furmanek's color comparisons between the original film and Criterion's Blu? It's obvious the color is different and not what the director intended. It's a screw up.

Even if it is a screw-up with respect to the colour timing, the fault would lie with Fox, not Criterion.

[malakaheso]

2024 in alphahetical order:

Barry Lyndon 4K
Eyes Wide Shut 4K
Girl Shy (blu or 4K)
Paper Moon (blu or 4K)
Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid (blu or 4K)
Werckmeister Harmonies (blu or 4K)
The Wild Bunch 4K

[dkelly26666]

Originally Posted by Professor Echo

Why?

The ridiculous collector in me, LOL.

Certain films you want the different editions, certain labels you want their edition of a favorite film and so on.

[CRASHLANDING]

Originally Posted by edmoney

I'm very curious to watch the GREED reconstruction, and it would be ideal to have both it and the theatrical version on disc. However, given how WAC releases tend to pretty bare-bones and based on George F.'s comments about the reconstruction needing to be redone if being brought to HD, I wonder how feasible that would be. The fact that GREED has never even seen an official DVD release leads me to think that the economics don't really work out for a lavish edition from WAC. Ideally, this should get a stacked release by the likes of Criterion.

I think this narrative is outdated about WAC discs being bare-bones. Most of their recent releases have contained a decent amount of extras, even if they're more likely to draw on library content (legacy EPK stuff, short subjects, etc.) versus newly created features like interviews or commentaries.

[edmoney]

Originally Posted by CRASHLANDING

I think this narrative is outdated about WAC discs being bare-bones. Most of their recent releases have contained a decent amount of extras, even if they're more likely to draw on library content (legacy EPK stuff, short subjects, etc.) versus newly created features like interviews or commentaries.

Yes, you may be correct about the more recent WAC releases not being bare-bones (I've purchased a handful of them but haven't opened/played them yet). However, I get the impression that redoing the 1999 reconstruction for GREED in HD would take some doing (i.e. time and money), so I would be pleasantly surprised if it appears on a WAC release.

[cheez avenger]

Gael GarcÃ*a Bernal’s Closet Picks - YouTube

[Professor Echo]

Originally Posted by kmhofmann

Did my own search and found mainly this post:
In absence of irrefutable evidence to the contrary, we need to go with trusting the people who commissioned this restoration and signed off on it. More likely than not, they have done their research and used references as far as available.

I certainly don't disagree with all your contentions, but this is one I can't support. We've seen very often mix ups and muddled releases because the people working on them or authorizing the work on them don't know anything about the original intentions of the filmmakers. Sometimes a whole label, such as Paramount, has made obvious mistakes in releases and refuse to own up to it, regardless of what evidence there is contradicting their efforts.

I've written to Bob Furmanek to join the discussion here about GIRL CAN'T HELP IT, but maybe he's weary of having his assertions challenged, which happens often at the clueless HTF, especially among the Robert Harris sycophants. I myself am no expert, but I did do a side by side comparison of the GIRL CAN'T HELP IT DVD from Fox with the Criterion Blu and to my untrained, amateur perception, I think the DVD has more accurate colors. It's a movie I saw many times when I was younger, pan and scanned on The Late Show and the colors on the DVD looked truer to those old TV broadcasts, but I realize that's meaningless. I wasn't born yet when the movie was released to theaters, so can't comment on how it looked when new.

So we can agree to disagree on this one, but my original point was that Criterion makes mistakes and whether this one qualifies or not doesn't dispute that.

[Professor Echo]

Originally Posted by RCRochester

Even if it is a screw-up with respect to the colour timing, the fault would lie with Fox, not Criterion.

Even when Criterion signs off on it and puts their name (initial?) on the final product? They bear some responsibility in that regard at least.

[Professor Echo]

Originally Posted by dkelly26666

The ridiculous collector in me, LOL.

Certain films you want the different editions, certain labels you want their edition of a favorite film and so on.

That's understandable, I guess. I've traded up KINO releases for Indicator ones of the same movies, so I do get it. However, usually that's because it offers something new than the past release(s). What could Criterion offer on APOCALYPSE, NOW that hasn't already been included on the 4 disc 4K release?

[CRASHLANDING]

Originally Posted by edmoney

Yes, you may be correct about the more recent WAC releases not being bare-bones (I've purchased a handful of them but haven't opened/played them yet). However, I get the impression that redoing the 1999 reconstruction for GREED in HD would take some doing (i.e. time and money), so I would be pleasantly surprised if it appears on a WAC release.

For sure, did not mean to imply that I disagreed with your larger point about GREED. Was just correcting a common misperception about WAC, because I think George F has been quite intentional about trying to include more extras on their recent releases.

[CRASHLANDING]

Originally Posted by Professor Echo

That's understandable, I guess. I've traded up KINO releases for Indicator ones of the same movies, so I do get it. However, usually that's because it offers something new than the past release(s). What could Criterion offer on APOCALYPSE, NOW that hasn't already been included on the 4 disc 4K release?

Agreed, Professor. I'd certainly consider a double-dip on a release (1) for a film that I really love, and (2) that included new content, or other improvements like a new scan or remaster.

But that 4K package is really incredible, so even for a masterpiece like AN it's hard to imagine Criterion could improve much on that release.