Titanic 4K UHD (1997)

[Pieter V]

Originally Posted by bdgrove

It's true : https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...postcount=4657

No.

Originally Posted by Pieter V

The US Dolby Atmos info is incorrect. 24-bits and full bitrate, like European disc.

[lvri]

Ok... So there is no official information about that ?

[Hedrox]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think the TrueHD core of an Atmos track can be anything other than 24-bit. When it shows up as 16-bit in the scan it's typically incorrect.

[sojrner]

Originally Posted by Count Orlok

Best Buy no longer sells physical media, so once they ran out, they'll no longer carry it. The Collector's Edition is still available through Amazon US. It doesn't look like the UK is getting the CE, though neither disc are region locked.

Their statement was "early 2024." The fact that I currently walk in my local shop and buy new releases off the shelf, and still order for items (at least) up to the end of March, I'd say "no longer" is a bit of a stretch. "Eventually" might be a better word.

[escvnte]

Originally Posted by Hedrox

Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think the TrueHD core of an Atmos track can be anything other than 24-bit. When it shows up as 16-bit in the scan it's typically incorrect.

My AV receiver decodes everything at 24-bits. And even in the Dolby Reference Player the Atmos track show up as 24-bits.

Dolby Atmos can be anything over 192khz/24-bit.
Though for movie productions it's very unlikely that we'll ever see such higher bitrates.
96khz/24-bit is already a niche for HD music, let alone 192khz/24-bit.
But even then, would someone notice any real audible difference between a 16-bit track and a 96/192khz/24-bit one, besides some more clarity and some more "punch" in the LFE department?

It's like what it was with SACD/DSD vs DVD-Audio/High-Res PCM.
In the end it doesn't really matter if it's either 16 or 24-bits. It's how the mixing process was done.

Even the original Cinema DTS track at 44.1khz/16-bit sound just as good.

[Count Orlok]

Originally Posted by sojrner

Their statement was "early 2024." The fact that I currently walk in my local shop and buy new releases off the shelf, and still order for items (at least) up to the end of March, I'd say "no longer" is a bit of a stretch. "Eventually" might be a better word.

My BB only has the new release 'aisle' stocked and nothing else. Media posts on Facebook have already shown empty racks and spaces where things used to be. 'No longer' isn't a stretch. It's already happening, just not at your store yet.

[sojrner]

Originally Posted by Count Orlok

My BB only has the new release 'aisle' stocked and nothing else. Media posts on Facebook have already shown empty racks and spaces where things used to be. 'No longer' isn't a stretch. It's already happening, just not at your store yet.

But again, if they're stocking anything, even if it's just the one new release shelf, that's not the same as "no longer," which would be not stocking anything at all.

It'll happen soon enough to be sure, but not quite yet.

[Riddhi2011]

Cameron may have used a 4K scan to rebuild his 2012 2K edit of Titanic in 4K, but when softwares like Topaz can create/retain detail in 4K from blown-up 1080p sources, then it's a scary future ahead.

HDNumerique posted this particular comparison they did, on their Youtube page for Titanic UHD's review -

https://imgsli.com/MjMxMDc3

HDNumerique used Topaz to upscale the 1080p Blu-ray to 4K. When you zoom into the image, you can see how Topaz reconstructs lost image detail due to pixelation. If filmmakers start to prefer this, they will no longer scan film on 4K and use such AI to just upscale movies for the general audience, who, unlike pixel peepers, might be satisfied and even happy with the "sharper" and "cleaner" "4K" video.

[escvnte]

Originally Posted by Riddhi2011

Cameron may have used a 4K scan to rebuild his 2012 2K edit of Titanic in 4K, but when softwares like Topaz can create/retain detail in 4K from blown-up 1080p sources, then it's a scary future ahead.

HDNumerique posted this particular comparison they did, on their Youtube page for Titanic UHD's review -

https://imgsli.com/MjMxMDc3

They used Topaz to upscale the 1080p Blu-ray to 4K. When you zoom into the image, you can see how Topaz reconstructs lost image detail due to pixelation. If filmmakers start to prefer this, they will no longer scan film on 4K and use such AI to just upscale movies for the general audience, who, unlike pixel peepers, might be satisfied and even happy with the "sharper" and "cleaner" "4K" video.

If filmmakers start to use that approach to remaster old titles to 4K, then I will definitely hold back from purchasing any remastered 4K title and just keep what I already have (like the original AVATAR Extended/3D Blu, ALIENS and True Lies).
I bought TITANIC mainly for collector's purposes and for the new extras. But nothing beats the 3D Blu-Ray, in terms of clarity and immersion, for me.

Studios and directors won't see a dime from me, anymore, If they're gonna use that as the "new standard" for remaster old titles to 4K.

If I want a cheap-looking upscale, I let my 4KTV do the job and apply HDR and call it a day.
Not gonna pay a "Premium" price for an inferior product.

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by Riddhi2011

HDNumerique used Topaz to upscale the 1080p Blu-ray to 4K. When you zoom into the image, you can see how Topaz reconstructs lost image detail due to pixelation. If filmmakers start to prefer this, they will no longer scan film on 4K and use such AI to just upscale movies for the general audience, who, unlike pixel peepers, might be satisfied and even happy with the "sharper" and "cleaner" "4K" video.

AI upscaling has already taken over video games with the vast majority of consumers and even tech channels saying it looks better than native rendering. Like they outright prefer the look of 1080p AI'd into 4k over real 4k.

Only a matter of time until this happens with video as well. I mean it's already happening, as we know.

[escvnte]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

AI upscaling has already taken over video games with the vast majority of consumers and even tech channels saying it looks better than native rendering. Like they outright prefer the look of 1080p AI'd into 4k over real 4k.

Only a matter of time until this happens with video as well. I mean it's already happening, as we know.

Ah, yes.
The Metal Gear Solid Master Collection is one of the many games releases "plagued" with this, other than having a few other bugs that the original games didn't had.
Same with the Remastered GTA games.
No wonder why many aren't investing in gaming anymore.

They get away with this, only because a few will buy these just because "It's Metal Gear/GTA".
Otherwise the vast majority of people would only buy a few handful new titles and that's all.

AI is already killing professional graphic design.
It's only a matter of time before it will also kill other industries as well.

I'm personally against AI.

[moviebuff75]

I don't like the fact that a fairly recent (in the history of film) Best Picture winner is missing any sound elements at all. Unless Cameron asked for the dialogue to be taken out, it was in the film for a reason. It doesn't matter what the dialogue is. It was supposed to be there.

[Riddhi2011]

Originally Posted by escvnte

If filmmakers start to use that approach to remaster old titles to 4K, then I will definitely hold back from purchasing any remastered 4K title and just keep what I already have (like the original AVATAR Extended/3D Blu, ALIENS and True Lies).
I bought TITANIC mainly for collector's purposes and for the new extras. But nothing beats the 3D Blu-Ray, in terms of clarity and immersion, for me.

Studios and directors won't see a dime from me, anymore, If they're gonna use that as the "new standard" for remaster old titles to 4K.

If I want a cheap-looking upscale, I let my 4KTV do the job and apply HDR and call it a day.
Not gonna pay a "Premium" price for an inferior product.

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

AI upscaling has already taken over video games with the vast majority of consumers and even tech channels saying it looks better than native rendering. Like they outright prefer the look of 1080p AI'd into 4k over real 4k.

Only a matter of time until this happens with video as well. I mean it's already happening, as we know.

What I gather from the above is that in the near future, AI upscaling becomes the norm over scanning negatives for movies shot on film. Also, if 1080p upscaled to 4 looks so good to average peeps and Youtubers, then producers will simply shoot movies in 1080p/2K and just upscale most movies to 4K (or higher) from that. This is an easy decision for them as it will save production costs and ensure greater profit.

So, it's possible that native high resolution image acquisition will begin to die a slow death in addition to the death of native 4K home video discs. Only a few boutique labels run by hardcore film preservationists and cinephiles might keep up 4K scanning alive. Similarly, passionate filmmakers and influential ones who can control their work, will prefer native higher resolution capture and release.

This will also hit real film restorations hard, because the negative scanning might be eliminated completely. They'll just take a decades-old Blu-ray master and just upscale that to 4K and call it a "restoration." I guess by that point, AI would improve a lot more. It's only people like us, who have experienced both film and digital that can somewhat tell the difference between things. The coming generation who will grow up exclusively on AI uprezzed images, won't learn the differences at all. They'll probably become used to it and accept it as the "norm," just like the average person watching movies on cable or streaming doesn't care nor can tell the difference.

[Fendergopher]

Originally Posted by escvnte

Ah, yes.
The Metal Gear Solid Master Collection is one of the many games releases "plagued" with this, other than having a few other bugs that the original games didn't had.

The Metal Gear Master Collection doesn't feature any AI upscaling tech whatsoever, they're all lazy ports of the Bluepoint HD remasters, with 720p internal rendering and a bilinear upscale to 1080p output, with the exception of MGS1 which renders at 240p.

[sfmarine]

Originally Posted by Count Orlok

My BB only has the new release 'aisle' stocked and nothing else. Media posts on Facebook have already shown empty racks and spaces where things used to be. 'No longer' isn't a stretch. It's already happening, just not at your store yet.

I've been to a few stores this week and they all still have movies, but they are quite bare which I'm sure is intentional. A random employee walked up to me as I was browsing and said once it's gone that's it and that they were not getting any more releases in. That store in particular completely removed their original aisle of movies in the back and relocated it to the front of the store. Definitely happening.

[blakninja]

What exactly is upscaling? It's just blowing up the image?

[Riddhi2011]

Originally Posted by blakninja

What exactly is upscaling? It's just blowing up the image?

As far as I know, yes. In the days of film, it meant increasing the size of the picture by printing on a larger film stock. In digital terms, it simply means increasing the resolution, or the pixel count.

[escvnte]

Originally Posted by Fendergopher

The Metal Gear Master Collection doesn't feature any AI upscaling tech whatsoever, they're all lazy ports of the Bluepoint HD remasters, with 720p internal rendering and a bilinear upscale to 1080p output, with the exception of MGS1 which renders at 240p.

They do suck, regardless.
If you think that even a fan can pull out a much-better HD Mod, as long as you have the original discs, there's no point in rebuy such crap.

[escvnte]

Originally Posted by sfmarine

I've been to a few stores this week and they all still have movies, but they are quite bare which I'm sure is intentional. A random employee walked up to me as I was browsing and said once it's gone that's it and that they were not getting any more releases in. That store in particular completely removed their original aisle of movies in the back and relocated it to the front of the store. Definitely happening.

Same thing happening in Italy as well, where Blu-Ray releases haven't even got proper marketing since a decade, now (when TITANIC first hit Blu-Ray in 2012, we still had TV spots for the Blu-Ray/3D releases), and 4K Blu-Ray has always been very niche.

That was to be expected, considering that many prefer to watch a movie directly from Netflix and most stores, these days, when looking for a new TV, they only show you all the streaming Apps the TV has instead of its functions and HDR/DV/Blu-Ray capabilities.

[mar3o]

Originally Posted by Riddhi2011

What I gather from the above is that in the near future, AI upscaling becomes the norm over scanning negatives for movies shot on film. Also, if 1080p upscaled to 4 looks so good to average peeps and Youtubers, then producers will simply shoot movies in 1080p/2K and just upscale most movies to 4K (or higher) from that. This is an easy decision for them as it will save production costs and ensure greater profit.

So, it's possible that native high resolution image acquisition will begin to die a slow death in addition to the death of native 4K home video discs. Only a few boutique labels run by hardcore film preservationists and cinephiles might keep up 4K scanning alive. Similarly, passionate filmmakers and influential ones who can control their work, will prefer native higher resolution capture and release.

This will also hit real film restorations hard, because the negative scanning might be eliminated completely. They'll just take a decades-old Blu-ray master and just upscale that to 4K and call it a "restoration." I guess by that point, AI would improve a lot more. It's only people like us, who have experienced both film and digital that can somewhat tell the difference between things. The coming generation who will grow up exclusively on AI uprezzed images, won't learn the differences at all. They'll probably become used to it and accept it as the "norm," just like the average person watching movies on cable or streaming doesn't care nor can tell the difference.

Hopefully this is a worst-case-scenario that won't come to fruition.