Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[CV19]

Originally Posted by crutzulee

As somewhat of a "collector", I resisted the original pull of cds primarily because of the rinky dink jewel cases that they came in...

I wish all CD's were still using jewel cases. I don't have much of an issue with digipaks as at least they still had a plastic tray (I think that's the correct name) to hold the disc in place. My gripe is with CD's that come in foldable pieces of cardboard with pocket slots that the discs slide into, and ultimately get scratched everytime you remove them. I generally put the discs into slim CD cases as at least here they are better protected - and easier to remove.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by russweiss1

I've never heard that one before. Some slips are tight but unless you're not paying attention I don't see how they tear the plastic on the case.

At the very top of the case when the slipcover is placed over the top. Only happened a couple of times, but I just don’t feel they are necessary.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by stmhlm

Physical media need prices to drop, dare I say $4.99 per movie, no player required? We could discuss prices for ages, but this is what physical media needs, it needs to appeal to everyone at "shockingly" low prices

Originally Posted by stmhlm

(3) Price - To have the physical media market really flourish, you need to reduce prices to increase the amount of adopters. You can only increase the amount of adopters by abiding point (1) and point (2) where point (3) i.e. this point, really drives it home. Streaming have lots of adopters due to more reasons than just price, but price alone is undoubtedly responsible for having your average DVD and Blu-ray consumer not investing in latest format, 4K Blu-ray. With the elimination of having to buy a dedicated playback device, if the price is right, I don't see why some SD cards couldn't slip down in some Walmart carts?

First of all, there is no way, regardless of the physical medium, that studios are going to sell movies at $4.99 per movie as a standard/starting price for something upon release. Sure, we see some physical movies that have been out for a long time drop to those kinds of prices or go on sale, but they certainly don't start out that way, not even on DVD, let alone Blu-Ray or 4K.

Also, SD cards (and similar formats) cost more to manufacture than discs.


Take the Nintendo Switch, for example. While the game cards that the physical games come on are technically a proprietary format, they are essentially similar to SD cards, just shaped differently and the data cannot be deleted/rewritten. The cost of releasing games on those cards is more expensive than on discs for the competing systems.

While it is a somewhat common practice to some extent or another on all current systems to have only a portion of some games come on the physical media and the rest needing to be downloaded (not just updates and patches, but big parts of the upfront game), it varies from game to game and tends to be more of an issue on the Switch, especially for 3rd party games.

There are some games that, when released on multiple consoles, the disc versions for Playstation and Xbox have the entire base game on it or a at least a bigger portion of it, but the Nintendo Switch version will have a notation on the package that a download is required. Why? Because the larger capacity game cards cost more to make. So they put a minimal amount of data on the smaller card and make the player download the rest.


Heck, just look at the cost of SD cards compared to blank discs. Sure, you can get something like a 64GB card for under $10 from time to time through reputable retailers. I was just looking at one on Amazon (and actually sold directly by Amazon, not a marketplace seller) for $8.99. But compare that to a spindle of 50 blank single-layer BD-R discs that each hold 25GB, which is also sold directly by Amazon, and costs $40. All of the discs in that spindle combined can hold a total of 1,250 GB. 5 of those SD cards will only hold a total of 320 GB and would cost a combined total of $5 more than the spindle of discs.

I'm not saying this is by any means a perfect comparison, and of course those items are being sold at a profit and cost less to manufacture, but the point still remains. Discs are cheaper to make than SD cards or similar card based formats.


If the studios are not selling their brand new 4K movies on discs for $4.99 (which I wouldn't expect them to), then there is no way in hell they are going to sell them at that price on some kind of physical solid state card.... whether an SD card as we know them now, or a proprietary variant format similar to the Nintendo Switch game cards.



Further more, there is no way that the studios would release movies on SD cards without there being major copy protection behind them, and any playback device requiring specific software. Even if a TV currently has an SD card slot, it doesn't mean it would work. They would likely want this to either be a new proprietary format that people cannot easily put in a computer, or would want major restrictions on how the content can be accessed.

Some changes recently went through where officially/legally playing 4K discs on a PC, even if you have a 4K UHD drive, is going to become much more difficult/impossible (which likely means those kinds of drives won't be manufactured much longer, keeping things limited to Blu-Ray and DVD drives). There will likely be unofficial work arounds, but they don't want to make it easy for people to rip movies at that high of quality. So going with an actual SD card likely will not happen since it would be easy to use software on a PC to rip them, etc.

So this would mean having a proprietary format, and once again a dedicated player and/or future TVs having this built in going forward, so either way, people wouldn't be able to just pop the card into their current TV and just start watching a movie.


Then there's the fact that many people have been reluctant to adopt newer formats in general. People are used to discs. Trying to get them to wrap their minds around using an SD-card like format for this purpose would be a further hurdle to overcome. These people either still use DVDs and/or stream exclusively.




Having said all of that, IF (huge emphasis on IF) they could make some kind of card-like, solid state sort of format that movies could be released on that would hold up at least as well over time as discs (if not more so) in terms of not deteriorating from just sitting there and existing.... AND they would eliminate the problem of dealing with disc scratches and imperfections (the 4K format tends to be particularly finicky in this regard since more data is stored in the same amount of physical space than Blu-Ray or DVD), and the prices weren't much more than what newer movies cost now... I actually wouldn't be opposed to it. Anything that increases the possibility of longevity and is less prone to damage and errors, I would be in favor of. Though it would need enough people to adopt to be viable for years to come and not be some short lived super niche format.

[Boccaccio]

Originally Posted by Warm Gun

I do wonder if they've lost more buyers than they kept by putting movies in oversized, dumb cases. Space is one of the most cited reasons for people dropping physical media. Housing is far more expensive than ever. I would have been happy with CD jewel cases. You can complain about their durability all you want, but they take up about a third of the space, hold the inserts better, don't warp and cost a fraction of what UHD cases cost to replace.

I don't think so because that would mean that CD would still be king in the music business and that's not the case either.

[CV19]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

I rarely even keep any slips apart from the special ones. I find they can tear the plastic on the Blu-ray case occasionally.

I do have a nice few slips for some of the filth I own. The artwork tends to be great . I especially like The Tale Of Tiffany Lust 4K, which comes in a sturdy box with a solid cardboard slip that slots into place over the case and bottom part of box. It is very prestigious in the flesh.

Never heard of the film, but that Tale Of Tiffany Lust sounds interesting simply for the slip cover alone which you speak highly of.

Honestly though, I have several Vinegar Syndrome horror titles and their slip covers are really nice and very strong - unlike the crap ones that the likes of Studio Canal provide. I nearly always end up throwing them away as they damage very easily.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by CV19

Never heard of the film, but that Tale Of Tiffany Lust sounds interesting simply for the slip cover alone which you speak highly of.

Honestly though, I have several Vinegar Syndrome horror titles and their slip covers are really nice and very strong - unlike the crap ones that the likes of Studio Canal provide. I nearly always end up throwing them away as they damage very easily.

I enjoy the adult titles, especially the mid to late 80’s ones. They are a fascinating time capsule of the genre, with late 80’s films changing as the shot-on-film era was coming to an end, being replaced with shot on video fare.
These films have been beautifully restored, a real treat.

There is a sale starting Feb 9th on the Melusine site (VS’s sister site), if you or anyone else is interested.

[CV19]

Originally Posted by Boccaccio

I don't think so because that would mean that CD would still be king in the music business and that's not the case either.

CD is still the music king in my household.

Personally speaking, I only ever buy downloads if a CD is not available as is sometimes the case, but yes, I guess most people will opt for downloading instead.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by CV19

CD is still the music king in my household.

Personally speaking, I only ever buy downloads if a CD is not available as is sometimes the case, but yes, I guess most people will opt for downloading instead.

Yep, my family just use their Spotify subscription with an Alexa speaker/assistant.

[gotmule]

Originally Posted by CV19

CD is still the music king in my household.

Personally speaking, I only ever buy downloads if a CD is not available as is sometimes the case, but yes, I guess most people will opt for downloading instead.

Not only is CD king in my household, it is also king in my car. Yes, I know it is a lot more convenient to use Apple CarPlay or simply plug in my phone, but the drop in quality when using those methods is too significant to my ears and brain. My cd collection is pretty solid at over 3000 titles, and the best time for me to enjoy it is in my car. Hell, I even bought my car 5 yrs ago because it still came with one….and the fact that it is all wheel drive and a manual transmission and a blast to drive. So far this year, I have added 11 titles to my collection compared to only 3 movies / tv shows on disc, which is mostly due to a lack of titles grabbing me.

[mi_z]

Originally Posted by bhampton

By chance, do you remember the minidisc ?



They tried to make the CD something new and tried to say it was better.

I remember. Ultimately it didn't work.

I think re-inventing Physical Media isn't the solution at the moment. Stability is what I think PM needs and by that I mean no more do overs.

Just my view.

I wish this became a thing. CDs are a bit too large to be portable compared to a MP3 player or mobile phone. This could have been.

[mi_z]

Originally Posted by CV19

I wish all CD's were still using jewel cases. I don't have much of an issue with digipaks as at least they still had a plastic tray (I think that's the correct name) to hold the disc in place. My gripe is with CD's that come in foldable pieces of cardboard with pocket slots that the discs slide into, and ultimately get scratched everytime you remove them. I generally put the discs into slim CD cases as at least here they are better protected - and easier to remove.

Yes, hate that. Happens for films as well, for example those Curzon box sets. The packaging alone puts me off.

[CV19]

Originally Posted by gotmule

Not only is CD king in my household, it is also king in my car. Yes, I know it is a lot more convenient to use Apple CarPlay or simply plug in my phone, but the drop in quality when using those methods is too significant to my ears and brain. My cd collection is pretty solid at over 3000 titles, and the best time for me to enjoy it is in my car. Hell, I even bought my car 5 yrs ago because it still came with one….and the fact that it is all wheel drive and a manual transmission and a blast to drive. So far this year, I have added 11 titles to my collection compared to only 3 movies / tv shows on disc, which is mostly due to a lack of titles grabbing me.

Yes, I have literally hundreds of CD's going right back to 1983 when they were launched. My taste in music is varied - pop/rock (mostly 70's and 80's) right through to classical.

I don't think there'll be any cars here in the UK that come with CD players any more. Usually it's just a DAB digital radio and a USB port, so hang on to that car of yours - sounds great fun.

[Ender14]

Originally Posted by gotmule

Not only is CD king in my household, it is also king in my car. Yes, I know it is a lot more convenient to use Apple CarPlay or simply plug in my phone, but the drop in quality when using those methods is too significant to my ears and brain. My cd collection is pretty solid at over 3000 titles, and the best time for me to enjoy it is in my car. Hell, I even bought my car 5 yrs ago because it still came with one….and the fact that it is all wheel drive and a manual transmission and a blast to drive. So far this year, I have added 11 titles to my collection compared to only 3 movies / tv shows on disc, which is mostly due to a lack of titles grabbing me.

My car's about 10 years old now but still has the CD player and manual transmission as well. I only buy cars with manual transmission though I understand that may not be an option much longer. As you said, manual is way more fun to drive.

I still buy CD's but rip them to FLAC for easy listening at home. According to my catalog I have 541 CD's. Would have thought it was more but I did have a couple hundred stolen out of my car many years ago.

[CV19]

Originally Posted by Ender14

My car's about 10 years old now but still has the CD player and manual transmission as well. I only buy cars with manual transmission though I understand that may not be an option much longer. As you said, manual is way more fun to drive.

Same with me, I've only ever owned cars with a manual transmission. I remember my dad owning only the one automatic model back in the late 70's when I was still a kid. It was a Volvo which featured what they called a "Vario-Matic" transmission which I gather meant it could run in reverse as fast as it could drive forward. I often thought how cool it would be to drive backwards at 90 mph, which I think was the maximum speed on that car.

[sapiendut]

Originally Posted by CV19

CD is still the music king in my household.

Personally speaking, I only ever buy downloads if a CD is not available as is sometimes the case, but yes, I guess most people will opt for downloading instead.

Actually CD sales are still higher than the sales of the album downloads. The digital downloads numbers seem to be high because most reports clump digital downloads and streaming together.

[Vilya]

The annual Digital Entertainment Group report for 2023 is now posted in the Home Video Sales thread along with the latest Format Market Share report from Media Play News.

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...postcount=2920

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...postcount=2919

[Vilya]

I still very much prefer CDs; my collection stands at just 845 titles though. I'm a rank amateur.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by gotmule

Hell, I even bought my car 5 yrs ago because it still came with one….and the fact that it is all wheel drive and a manual transmission and a blast to drive.

It's a blast to just ride in, too.

[crutzulee]

I left all my physical media behind when I split with my ex.... over the years, I built back a collection of what I felt were a few must haves ...
A couple of months ago, when my wife was doing a clean out, she prepared a number of boxes for the local charity shop which I hauled off to the car...it wasn't until I was unloading them at the depot that I realized they were all filled with our cd collection..lol..
I was about to protest when she reminded me that we had neither the means nor the inclination to play them...
I pay for some kind of YouTube music family plan which morphed out of a similar Google play plan...I think it gives me 5 distinct accounts so I have one left over as we are a family of 4... I'm also pretty sure that I have a similar music plan with my PRIME account that I don't use...
I really only listen to music in the car and I can pretty much bring up any song that pops into my head with voice commands...I have my wife's car setup the same and my kids use their phones with headphones...

[CV19]

Originally Posted by crutzulee

A couple of months ago, when my wife was doing a clean out, she prepared a number of boxes for the local charity shop which I hauled off to the car...it wasn't until I was unloading them at the depot that I realized they were all filled with our cd collection..lol..
I was about to protest when she reminded me that we had neither the means nor the inclination to play them...

I think you need to have a serious word with your wife.
I don't know if she has a large shoe or handbag collection in the closet (as some women appear to have), but if that was the case, then you could tell her to clear them all out so you'll have lots of room for your CD collection.