Batman: Caped Crusader (HBOMax Animated Series) (Abrams and Reeves)

[Batmon77]

Originally Posted by Chedwiggen

That's like telling people to get past Christopher Reeve's Superman, not going to happen.

It seems like Star Trek fans are a rare breed that aren't weighed down by Captain Kirk and the Original series. Yes they continued the original crew for many projects afterwards and even connected Spock to the newer films, but the fans still seemed to let it live without the baggage.

Star Trek continues to make new material and folks dont cry thats its not like 60s Star Trek. The groups that like all the shows that came after dont seem to moan about how its not like the OG.

[Batmon77]

Originally Posted by joshsquash729

Also mentioned it over in the Batman film thread, but it'll be interesting to see if he uses a gun, like he sometimes did back in the Golden Age. I know he's against guns and killing, but to see a show that takes place before he fully adopts that principle could be quite interesting.

And they did deal with this w/ one scene.

[Karate_Bullfrog]

Originally Posted by Batmon77

And they did deal with this w/ one scene.

Though, right before that he does

[Show spoiler]jump between two gun men causing them to murder one another

. So he seems to bend the rules for himself, even though he hasn’t ever mentioned

[Show spoiler]he has a no kill rule

.

[Batmon77]

Originally Posted by Karate_Bullfrog

Though, right before that he does

[Show spoiler]jump between two gun men causing them to murder one another

. So he seems to bend the rules for himself, even though he hasn’t ever mentioned

[Show spoiler]he has a no kill rule

.

I think the no kill rule came later on. He had a gun in tje beginning.
And Superman threw dudes out the window in the early days.

[mwynn]

Batman #4 had Batman tell Robin to not kill with weapons. Batman still killed people by accident windows and car crashes until the comics code.

[Ajc228]

Originally Posted by Batmon77

Please get past BTAS and critique this on its own terms without carrying over baggage.

Without acknowledging BTAS, I would still be very disappointed with this adaptation. It’s pretty dull. The characters more or less remain archetypes with little to no compelling attributes. The writing and the direction feel by the numbers. I’m genuinely not trying to be hyperbolic. I wanted this to be good and I was initially excited until I saw the trailers and watched the show. Tonally it feels campy but also strangely dark at times which feels disjointed to me. It’s a shame that the music isn’t very memorable either.

[BudBaxter]

Enjoyed most of this because, hey, it's more Batman & I'm a Bat-fan, but I didn't love it. The voice work & animation is generally great, but there's something about the whole thing that just feels a bit... off.

Not a fan of the short, dumpy character designs for a number of the cast (Harley & Montoya were particularly bad), & the Penguin thing is bizarre & only seems to have been done to cause controversy. Driver was fine & I got used to the different take by the end of the episode, but as others have said, it's not like Batman's Rogues Gallery doesn't have plenty of other female villains they could use.

But the main thing for me was the lack of 'oomph' (for want of a better word) to the music. It was a nice score, but it didn't seem to fit the show half the time, especially the credits. I get they're trying to go for the 'noir' angle, but the opening & end credits should have been much more bombastic IMHO, & the scenes leading into them should have grabbed you or made you feel something. As it was, each pre-credits or final scene just sort of limped into the credits & it all felt very lacklustre & anticlimactic.

The Clayface episode was the highlight for me, with the Two-Face double a close second. That carnival episode got very dark.

[Ajc228]

The gender swapping of the penguin is sort of a baffling decision because it feels very lazy. It’s essentially the same villain we saw in Batman Beyond. I can’t remember the villain but it’s the same dynamic where two bumbling sons are afraid of their mother. It also begs the question why didn’t they just create a new character or pull a lesser known one and reinvent them. I can only assume the creators wanted to court controversy or milk the IP because the Penguin is a known quantity.

[Batmon77]

Originally Posted by Ajc228

The gender swapping of the penguin is sort of a baffling decision because it feels very lazy. It’s essentially the same villain we saw in Batman Beyond. I can’t remember the villain but it’s the same dynamic where two bumbling sons are afraid of their mother. It also begs the question why didn’t they just create a new character or pull a lesser known one and reinvent them. I can only assume the creators wanted to court controversy or milk the IP because the Penguin is a known quantity.

The Penguin is an essential crime boss in Gotham.

After Falcone and Maroni, the only one that comes to mind is The Black Mask who really is a modern boss.

Were there any complaints when The Batman film presented The Penguin without his blue-blood attributes? No tech umbrella, monocle, or tuxedo?

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by Batmon77

Please get past BTAS and critique this on its own terms without carrying over baggage.

When one of the main people behind BTAS is involved, and the show (especially Batman himself) has such a similar look and style to the BTAS version, people are, of course, going to think of it. It is what it is.

While there would likely be some comparisons no matter what, since it is another animated incarnation of Batman, having it be this similar just shines a spotlight on it.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by Batmon77

It seems like Star Trek fans are a rare breed that aren't weighed down by Captain Kirk and the Original series. Yes they continued the original crew for many projects afterwards and even connected Spock to the newer films, but the fans still seemed to let it live without the baggage.

Star Trek continues to make new material and folks dont cry thats its not like 60s Star Trek. The groups that like all the shows that came after dont seem to moan about how its not like the OG.

Star Trek is a rare exception where the follow up series, TNG, is held in as high of regard, if not higher for some people, than the original series.

That being said, a lot of people who are fans of of the OG series, TNG, and the other series in the 90s and early-mid 2000s have been highly critical of many things the recent Star Trek series have done and how it doesn't really fit in with the franchise.

You are looking at this very selectively by focusing only on the original series.


Besides, BTAS wasn't the first ever Batman cartoon series made for TV. If I am not mistaken, that goes to The Adventures of Batman from the late 1960s, with those incarnations being tied into the subsequent Super Friends series (somewhat similar to BTAS being connected to Justice League and LJU). BTAS is just the one generally held in highest regard, and for good reason.

[Batmon77]

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

Star Trek is a rare exception where the follow up series, TNG, is held in as high of regard, if not higher for some people, than the original series.

That being said, a lot of people who are fans of of the OG series, TNG, and the other series in the 90s and early-mid 2000s have been highly critical of many things the recent Star Trek series have done and how it doesn't really fit in with the franchise.

You are looking at this very selectively by focusing only on the original series.

Besides, BTAS wasn't the first ever Batman cartoon series made for TV. If I am not mistaken, that goes to The Adventures of Batman from the late 1960s, with those incarnations being tied into the subsequent Super Friends series (somewhat similar to BTAS being connected to Justice League and LJU). BTAS is just the one generally held in highest regard, and for good reason.

Bingo

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by Batmon77

Bingo

You completely missed the rest of the point that I made where many long time Star Trek fans are not happy with the more recent series. And also how BTAS is not the first animated Batman TV series. You are clinging to one minor aspect of a larger point that counterpoints most of what you've been saying.

[KManX89]

I’m 3 episodes in. Aside from the needless changes of certain characters, it’s alright so far. I don’t hate it, but each episode essentially feels like anthology eps with little-to-no connectivity. It introduces a character, then drops them and moves onto the next in the following episode, rinse and repeat. It feels all over the place.

[Karate_Bullfrog]

The score is really lackluster on this show. You got some use of Jazz here, but nothing that stands out about it. No catchy hooks whatsoever, or themes that cling onto characters.

Thinking back to the cast, I wasn’t impressed either with them. Batman, and Alfred sound like copies of Conroy, and Zimbalist. Ricci was the only real stand-out as Catwoman.

[Dave Bannion]

1 very good episode (Clayface), 1 good (Catwoman), the other 8 range from mediocre to bad. Nothing in this series really justified its existence apart from the Clayface episode, just more meaningless IP content.

The mix of stand-alone episodes with the final few serialized episodes made it all feel even more half-assed and directionless. No interest in a second season.

And what was JJ Abrams' role in this? How on earth did he get on a DC project?

[Dave Bannion]

Originally Posted by KManX89

I’m 3 episodes in. Aside from the needless changes of certain characters, it’s alright so far. I don’t hate it, but each episode essentially feels like anthology eps with little-to-no connectivity. It introduces a character, then drops them and moves onto the next in the following episode, rinse and repeat. It feels all over the place.

All downhill after episode 3. Perfect time to bail.

[mwynn]

Originally Posted by Dave Bannion

1 very good episode (Clayface), 1 good (Catwoman), the other 8 range from mediocre to bad. Nothing in this series really justified its existence apart from the Clayface episode, just more meaningless IP content.

The mix of stand-alone episodes with the final few serialized episodes made it all feel even more half-assed and directionless. No interest in a second season.

And what was JJ Abrams' role in this? How on earth did he get on a DC project?

In September 2019, Abrams and his Bad Robot company signed a $250 million five-year deal with WarnerMedia, including HBO and Warner Bros. Pictures.

Abrams will also serve as executive producer and co-creator of a new Batman animated series titled Batman: Caped Crusader alongside Reeves and Bruce Timm

[Batmon77]

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

You completely missed the rest of the point that I made where many long time Star Trek fans are not happy with the more recent series. And also how BTAS is not the first animated Batman TV series. You are clinging to one minor aspect of a larger point that counterpoints most of what you've been saying.

The last one with Pike wasn’t harshly compared to the OG, and folks had good word of mouth for The Lower Decks. So i ignored your “point”.
Please give examples of what latest shows have been harshly criticized.

Discovery??

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by Batmon77

The last one with Pike wasn’t harshly compared to the OG, and folks had good word of mouth for The Lower Decks. So i ignored your “point”.
Please give examples of what latest shows have been harshly criticized.

Discovery??

Discovery was one. Also the first two seasons of Picard.

There's also the point that I made about how BTAS wasn't the first Batman cartoon series. So your argument doesn't hold up in that sense.