The Last of Us Part 2 - PS5

[Warm Gun]

Originally Posted by emailking

You wrote all this because the thread got bumped because of the PC port? lol

Anyway, I don't think she's actually killing that many people. And I think the series makes it clear. They're killing may fewer people then you witness them killing. No way they would survive all that. It's just for the gameplay. We wouldn't enjoy it as a game if they kill 1 or 2 people every 4 hours. Infected maybe.

I wrote most of it when I played it two years ago.

Yes, she does kill a shitload of people and it IS stupid. Come up with better motivations, devs!

I also made this video at the time.

Shoulder swapping in shooters - YouTube

[emailking]

I'm saying I don't think she kills a lot of people story wise. I don't consider every moment of the gameplay, or ever section of enemies you have to clear, as canon to the story. Because it makes no sense if you do that.

[deckard82]

besides, even in the game you don't have to kill everyone. I played through the game one time specifically trying to avoid killing human beings and I think the game really only forces you to kill a handfull of people (don't remember how many exactly). All other kills you can avoid. Just because you kill 1576485 people in the game, that doesn't mean that there's no alternatives.

[Warm Gun]

Originally Posted by deckard82

besides, even in the game you don't have to kill everyone. I played through the game one time specifically trying to avoid killing human beings and I think the game really only forces you to kill a handfull of people (don't remember how many exactly). All other kills you can avoid. Just because you kill 1576485 people in the game, that doesn't mean that there's no alternatives.

In this kind of game, not killing often puts you in much greater danger. It's not just all the kills, but also all the life-threatening scenarios (all the times you fail and see her die) that she endures for this pointless quest, like I said in my big post. Of course gameplay is part of narrative.

[deckard82]

Originally Posted by Warm Gun

In this kind of game, not killing often puts you in much greater danger. It's not just all the kills, but also all the life-threatening scenarios (all the times you fail and see her die) that she endures for this pointless quest, like I said in my big post. Of course gameplay is part of narrative.

if you fail and die, you can't really blame the game for it. It's a matter of skills.

[Warm Gun]

Originally Posted by deckard82

if you fail and die, you can't really blame the game for it. It's a matter of skills.

Not what I mean. All those Ellie deaths you see (or, if you want, a bad player sees) are possible futures for her as she goes on this pointless quest. She takes on so much danger for a man who's already dead. Just because she said something mean to him before he died? As she leaves her girlfriend and the baby to try again and then slaughters so many more on her way to emaciated Abbie in that final chapter, her obsession seems bizarre. Autistic. I'm reading the manga Lone Wolf and Cub. Was made into a movie series. At least there it wasn't just bloody revenge but also the goal to clear his name and reestablish his house. Druckmann's a bad storyteller.

[deckard82]

Originally Posted by Warm Gun

Not what I mean. All those Ellie deaths you see (or, if you want, a bad player sees) are possible futures for her as she goes on this pointless quest. She takes on so much danger for a man who's already dead. Just because she said something mean to him before he died? As she leaves her girlfriend and the baby to try again and then slaughters so many more on her way to emaciated Abbie in that final chapter, her obsession seems bizarre. Autistic. I'm reading the manga Lone Wolf and Cub. Was made into a movie series. At least there it wasn't just bloody revenge but also the goal to clear his name and reestablish his house. Druckmann's a bad storyteller.

I like Lone Wolf & Cub as much as the next guy but you're comparing apples and oranges. I remember one episode where Ogami Itto kills a woman and her kid because he was paid for it.
Ellie doesn't go on a revenge killing spree because she said something bad to Joel. Clearly, you just didn't get the story. You have a problem with Druckmann and then project that on everything Druckmann.

[Warm Gun]

Originally Posted by deckard82

I like Lone Wolf & Cub as much as the next guy but you're comparing apples and oranges. I remember one episode where Ogami Itto kills a woman and her kid because he was paid for it.
Ellie doesn't go on a revenge killing spree because she said something bad to Joel. Clearly, you just didn't get the story. You have a problem with Druckmann and then project that on everything Druckmann.

Yes, that's why she does it. Guilt. I can't remember the exact circumstance, what exactly she said, but she remembers before the final gauntlet of kills. A flashback (or dream) to the moment in the dance hall as she's relaxing with her girlfriend and the baby on the farm. Even without that guilt, hatred for Abbie wouldn't be enough either. Like I said in my big post, Joel must be so proud to know she murdered seventy people to avenge him.

[deckard82]

Originally Posted by Warm Gun

Yes, that's why she does it. Guilt. I can't remember the exact circumstance, what exactly she said, but she remembers before the final gauntlet of kills. A flashback (or dream) to the moment in the dance hall as she's relaxing with her girlfriend and the baby on the farm. Even without that guilt, hatred for Abbie wouldn't be enough either. Like I said in my big post, Joel must be so proud to know she murdered seventy people to avenge him.

where did she murder 70 people? Could say the same thing about Joel by the way. It's not like he's/was an innocent white knight. Or Tess...she just straight up shoots an unarmed guy point blank. If they had killed Ellie, you think Joel wouldn't have gone on a revenge rampage? Yeah, Ellie tortures a gal, but so did Joel. He taught her how to do it. In many ways, she is the way she is because of him. Tommy was planning on going after Abby too in the end. Him seeking revenge doesn't seem to be problematic though.

And guilt is just a part of her motivation. Joel was, despite everything, like a father to her. I think that was more of a motivation than anything else, despite the flashback scene.

[DragonOfTheBlackPool]

Originally Posted by deckard82

where did she murder 70 people? Could say the same thing about Joel by the way. It's not like he's/was an innocent white knight. Or Tess...she just straight up shoots an unarmed guy point blank. If they had killed Ellie, you think Joel wouldn't have gone on a revenge rampage? Yeah, Ellie tortures a gal, but so did Joel. He taught her how to do it. In many ways, she is the way she is because of him. Tommy was planning on going after Abby too in the end. Him seeking revenge doesn't seem to be problematic though.

More specifically Robert, a former business partner of Tess who betrayed her (to the Fireflies of all people) and had his men beat the shit out of her. But you conveniently left that out, or brushed it aside.

[deckard82]

Originally Posted by DragonOfTheBlackPool

More specifically Robert, a former business partner of Tess who betrayed her (to the Fireflies of all people) and had his men beat the shit out of her. But you conveniently left that out, or brushed it aside.

which still does not justify ending someone like that in cold blood. At least not in my world.

[DragonOfTheBlackPool]

Originally Posted by deckard82

which still does not justify ending someone like that in cold blood. At least not in my world.

lol, yeah of course not in the real world, but in a game where society has collapsed and there are no courts (or laws for that matter) that is justice for some.

But don’t make it sound like she killed an innocent person for no reason, which is definitely implied by how you phrased it.

[deckard82]

Originally Posted by DragonOfTheBlackPool

lol, yeah of course not in the real world, but in a game where society has collapsed and there are no courts (or laws for that matter) that is justice for some.

But don’t make it sound like she killed an innocent person for no reason, which is definitely implied by how you phrased it.

I didn't say anything about her killing an innocent person. Doesn't matter anyways. Like I said, there was no good justification for ending him just like that. Sure, it might be a harsh world and yada yada. But that doesn't change the facts. And yeah, it's a video game. But if a game tries to portray an unrealistic setting in a real, believable way, I think it is fair to judge its characters by real world standards.

[Blu Lemmy]

What is happening.

[mwynn]

Originally Posted by Blu Lemmy

What is happening.

What's Happening!! (Intro) S1 (1976) - YouTube

[RocShemp]

Originally Posted by DragonOfTheBlackPool

More specifically Robert, a former business partner of Tess who betrayed her (to the Fireflies of all people) and had his men beat the shit out of her. But you conveniently left that out, or brushed it aside.

Actually, the beating of Tess only happens in the show. And in the show Robert is already dead when Tess and Joel catch up to him. In the game, Robert is on the run because he took Tess and Joel's money but sold the guns they were buying from him to the Fireflies. When he suggests going after the Fireflies, Tess murders Robert.

[DragonOfTheBlackPool]

Originally Posted by RocShemp

Actually, the beating of Tess only happens in the show. And in the show Robert is already dead when Tess and Joel catch up to him. In the game, Robert is on the run because he took Tess and Joel's money but sold the guns they were buying from him to the Fireflies. When he suggests going after the Fireflies, Tess murders Robert.

When we are first introduced to Tess in the game, Joel asks about the bruises on her face and who did it and she replies “a couple of nobodies” followed by “Robert sent them”….

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNb8nor4ywo

In the show, it was over a car battery.

[RocShemp]

Ah. I stand corrected.

[dyne]

Originally Posted by blu lemmy

what is happening.

videogames

[RocShemp]

Originally Posted by dyne

videogames