Scream Factory Blu-ray Discussion Thread

[DR Herbert West]

Originally Posted by Donl1282

Whichever company has rights to Amityville II, I wonder why it’s taking so long for a new release? I assume it’s Vinegar Syndrome but it’s been almost 3 years since they released the original on UHD and SF was the company that released the original trilogy on BD but no company seems to have any interest in releasing the sequels. After 88 Films in the UK released the original on UHD I was hoping they follow up with the second film but no luck so far. I wonder if VS, 88, or SF even has the rights to the sequel, otherwise I would think a release would have been announced by now for UHD. Maybe the original film on the format sold poorly?

It's getting ridiculous.

[Donl1282]

Originally Posted by Nosferatu31

I prefer the cursed films over the first three.

I really like the cursed objects films in the series as well. My favorite is 1992 followed by 4 (The Evil Escapes), Dollhouse and New Generation. I wish they made more of these films after Dollhouse. It would be nice to bring Steve White back to make a few more. I hope we get these films on UHD sometime in the near future.

[Amiibro121]

Originally Posted by Resident Evil Labs

Still waiting on that Demon Knight 4k upgrade

The last scream factory title I'm interested in blind buying but holding out in case of a 4k version that aren't sleepaway camp, precinct 13, mouth of madness, and day of the dead (since those seemingly will just take a eternity to be on the format) is tales from the hood. I'm surprised they haven't done that one yet

[BudtheChud]

Originally Posted by Amiibro121

The last scream factory title I'm interested in blind buying but holding out in case of a 4k version that aren't sleepaway camp, precinct 13, mouth of madness, and day of the dead (since those seemingly will just take a eternity to be on the format) is tales from the hood. I'm surprised they haven't done that one yet

Sleepaway Camp and Day of the Dead can’t happen since they don’t have the film elements but not sure the hold up on the others.

[bradenscottday]

Originally Posted by BudtheChud

Sleepaway Camp and Day of the Dead can’t happen since they don’t have the film elements but not sure the hold up on the others.

they can scan the blu ray like they did with Carrie.. with technology today almost anything is possible

[bradenscottday]

Originally Posted by Resident Evil Labs

Still waiting on that Demon Knight 4k upgrade

this and the Bordello of blood.. i’m a sucker for the tales from the crypt films. if the rights and legal junk around the series could get sorted i’d love a blu ray box set from literally anyone

[BudtheChud]

Originally Posted by bradenscottday

they can scan the blu ray like they did with Carrie.. with technology today almost anything is possible

That’s not really how it works. They need decent film elements especially if they want HDR. They used the OCN for Carrie I believe.

[Shane Rollins]

Originally Posted by BudtheChud

Sleepaway Camp and Day of the Dead can’t happen since they don’t have the film elements but not sure the hold up on the others.

Somewhere I heard that Shout owned some or all rights to SC1 outright. I don't know if that's true though. I'm thinking MGM owns at least 2 and 3. And SC1 has an OCN, as evidenced by the uncut Blu-ray from eons ago, so there are film elements that exist.

[BudtheChud]

Originally Posted by Shane Rollins

Somewhere I heard that Shout owned some or all rights to SC1 outright. I don't know if that's true though. I'm thinking MGM owns at least 2 and 3. And SC1 has an OCN, as evidenced by the uncut Blu-ray from eons ago, so there are film elements that exist.

Some time back Shout mentioned the OCN went missing after the blu-ray was created. Don't remember the details but I think it's in this thread somewhere.

[Shane Rollins]

Originally Posted by BudtheChud

Some time back Shout mentioned the OCN went missing after the blu-ray was created. Don't remember the details but I think it's in this thread somewhere.

How, post-2014, does a negative go missing? Not some print, not some jacked-up 35mm print that Uncle Charlie left his nephew who loves horror movies, but the original frickin' camera negative?

Seriously, how does that happen?

[bradenscottday]

Originally Posted by BudtheChud

That’s not really how it works. They need decent film elements especially if they want HDR. They used the OCN for Carrie I believe.

i’m not going to argue on logistics bc i truthfully don’t know how it works. but i can almost guarantee with the technology available today, if they want to do a 4k they could. but i’m genuinely not sure on any of the logistics so i can’t speak much more on it

[bradenscottday]

Originally Posted by Shane Rollins

Somewhere I heard that Shout owned some or all rights to SC1 outright. I don't know if that's true though. I'm thinking MGM owns at least 2 and 3. And SC1 has an OCN, as evidenced by the uncut Blu-ray from eons ago, so there are film elements that exist.

i heard something similar to the sorts.. not sure how true it is as i couldn’t ever find any 100% confirmation

[Shane Rollins]

Originally Posted by bradenscottday

i’m not going to argue on logistics bc i truthfully don’t know how it works. but i can almost guarantee with the technology available today, if they want to do a 4k they could. but i’m genuinely not sure on any of the logistics so i can’t speak much more on it

The OCN is used frequently nowadays. It's not the rarity that it used to be.

As for HDR/DV, the benefit to the OCN is that the color isn't locked in like it is on an IP, an IN, or another element further down the totem pole. So they can rebuild the color from scratch. That doesn't mean anything less than the OCN won't work, or will be less, just that they can do the job just a little bit better with a negative.

Also, most scans from 2010 onwards scan at 16-bit color depth or higher, meaning that there's enough information to craft an HDR or DV color grade properly, as opposed to just half-assing it on an older scan with 10-bit color depth, for example. (This is one of many reasons why all the ancient 8K masters Warner Bros. produced in the 2000s aren't on 4K, because there's not enough color depth to do a proper HDR/DV grade, leaving SDR and poor HDR/DV as the only options.)

Either way, so long as people from Italian and French studios aren't present, and guys named Jim or Mike or George or Billy or Peter or Joel or Ethan aren't around the restoration bay, regardless of whether a neg is used, it will still be great. That neg just makes it a little bit better.

[TripleHBK]

Originally Posted by bradenscottday

i’m not going to argue on logistics bc i truthfully don’t know how it works. but i can almost guarantee with the technology available today, if they want to do a 4k they could. but i’m genuinely not sure on any of the logistics so i can’t speak much more on it

This is a 300x200 image.




This is the same image blown up 4x. The same jump in quality from 1080p to 4k. Would you want to watch this?




You cannot create detail where none was ever present. What your implying is impossible. AI upscales can smooth and sharpen a lower resolution image but they are not true 4k images. Honestly it's that kind of talk that leads to all sorts of incorrect assumptions online.

Anything can be rescaled to a 4k container, but that doesn't make it worth watching. In most cases 4k upscales are utter bullshit. They are better than nothing when a title is stuck in the past on VHS, but they have no place when known camera negatives exist.

[LanceL]

Originally Posted by TheZeppo

And of course you get all the thumbs ups and likes. Frickin ridiculous.

Originally Posted by Shane Rollins

And y'all think me and my jokes are weird.

Thanks a lot.

[BudtheChud]

Originally Posted by Shane Rollins

How, post-2014, does a negative go missing? Not some print, not some jacked-up 35mm print that Uncle Charlie left his nephew who loves horror movies, but the original frickin' camera negative?

Seriously, how does that happen?

Found the post mentioning it.
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...&postcount=874

Maybe someone from Shout can give some incite if they are hanging around here.

[JoelGoodsen]

Originally Posted by Donl1282

I’m among the folks who like the second Amityville better than the original.

The original Amityville is a yearly watch, but the second film has tons of nostalgia attached to it for me personally. I remember renting it with my cousins as a kid, and we watched it at their house, which was supposedly haunted. It scared the life out of me! The cover also stuck with me. I've still got the original VHS to this day.

Can only imagine how much a 4K would heighten the atmosphere even further.

[bradenscottday]

Originally Posted by TripleHBK

This is a 300x200 image.




This is the same image blown up 4x. The same jump in quality from 1080p to 4k. Would you want to watch this?




You cannot create detail where none was ever present. What your implying is impossible. AI upscales can smooth and sharpen a lower resolution image but they are not true 4k images. Honestly it's that kind of talk that leads to all sorts of incorrect assumptions online.

Anything can be rescaled to a 4k container, but that doesn't make it worth watching. In most cases 4k upscales are utter bullshit. They are better than nothing when a title is stuck in the past on VHS, but they have no place when known camera negatives exist.

again, my point is with technology anything can happen. they wouldn’t “create detail where none was ever present” by upscaling the blu ray to 4k. i’m not sure why there’s tons of people who came out of the wood works knowing how it all works. i directly said i obviously can’t speak on it bc i don’t know how it does work tbh, but with technology if they want to they can find a way essentially. it’s crazy how far technology has come lol, sorta freaky

[bradenscottday]

Originally Posted by BudtheChud

Found the post mentioning it.
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...&postcount=874

Maybe someone from Shout can give some incite if they are hanging around here.

thanks for finding that! so it was regarding the first, not even the second or third it seems lol

[Shane Rollins]

Originally Posted by LanceL

And of course you get all the thumbs ups and likes. Frickin ridiculous.



Thanks a lot.

You're welcome!

Originally Posted by BudtheChud

Found the post mentioning it.
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...&postcount=874

Maybe someone from Shout can give some incite if they are hanging around here.

Originally Posted by bradenscottday

thanks for finding that! so it was regarding the first, not even the second or third it seems lol

Grr...

This is a troll.

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They've made five total posts and every single one of them was this. And to add insult to injury, three of the five were in the My Bloody Valentine thread, a film where even the "uncut" version is still missing several minutes.

Perhaps they - whoever they is - lost the negative in their own damn vaults. This happens so often it's not even funny. And then they find it because oh, what do you know, Singin' In The Rain and Sleepaway Camp got scanned at the same time, someone opened the can looking for Gene Kelly and wound up seeing something they definitely weren't expecting, or something ridiculous like that.

The mono track for Gone With The Wind was long thought lost until a few low men on the totem pole revealed that they'd basically been playing musical chairs with the one surviving mono element for decades (very long story). Citizen Kane, no one, not even the various studios that have held the rights to it, the companies that have released it on home video, the companies that have restored it, legitimate colleges, or the AFI can say exactly what happened to the negative. Those are arguably the greatest films ever made. Sleepaway Camp, though great, has about 0.00001% of the stature those two have, and if it can happen to them, it can happen to Sleepaway Camp.

The negative isn't lost. I spent more hours panicking over precisely dick than Ronnie and Susie did.

As Benjamin Franklin once said, don't trust everything you read on the internet. -_-

I will, however, respond to other users - real users - who like me rightly went ape shit when they heard that the neg for Sleepaway Camp was missing.

[Show spoiler]

Originally Posted by Matt89

Wait wait wait wait wait....

Shout is SEARCHING for the negatives for Sleepaway Camp???

Bloody hell. Their current BD was mastered from the OCN, and that BD is only 10 years old. What the f*ck happened??

So the rightsholders lost the OCN in the past decade? That's so disappointing if true. What a mess.

I mean I guess that explains why we never got a UHD last year for the film's 40th.

Nee. I too asked the same questions. The damn neg's fine. My sandwich burning on the stove is not. (See, I already contributed more than that troll did, ain't I great?)

Originally Posted by Matt89

Hope they locate it but damn that's the worst news I've heard all day.

They will. I am 100% sure that the negative - which is complete and uncut - will be located in no more than a few years, depending on how fast the film-picker-upper guy gets off his spinny chair and goes and looks for it.

Originally Posted by Matt89

I honestly have no idea, I didn't even know the OCN was lost. I'm very shocked by that news.

But if they're still in the process of looking for it, we're certainly not getting a UHD within the next few months I'll say that much.

In the next few months, sadly no. In the future, hell yes. My prediction is 2033, for the film's 50th anniversary. The demand will be high enough that it'll sell more copies than it would right now. Even if "more" is a few thousand more. SC2 and 3 allegedly sold >2,000 copies each, which sounds nuts, but then again they don't pop up on Fleabay that often. Usually it's just the same overpriced copies there consistently.

Originally Posted by CompleteCount

Hopefully it will just turn up and surprise everyone.

Like an unexpected willy...

I may have read this a year late but this is still the comment of the day for me.

Originally Posted by JohnCarpenterFan

I wouldn't panic just yet. Obtaining such elements from smaller rightsholders isn't always easy and sometimes the difficulty obtaining such elements is down to poor communication somewhere along the line as opposed to them actually being missing.

This is absolutely true. When you're a studio that makes tens of billions a year off of your catalog, you make sure your house is in order. Five of the six studios in Hollywood know where a certain piece of film is when a boutique, big or small, calls for it.

Compare that against a studio who makes tens of tens of dollars a year off their catalog, who likely is leasing vault space on the cheap and likely has no idea what preserving a film entails. The CEO, the manager, the vault maintenance guy, the archiving/preserving/restoring guy, the film retriever, the catalogger, the guy maintaining the film in the vault the other guy maintains, they're likely only a few people making peanuts. The guys at the Big Six get paid six figures to scratch their ass while doing these jobs all year, while these guys maintaining Sleepaway Camp's owners likely make minimum wage, if that. It also wouldn't shock me if the big boss is also the guy doing all this other work, because you can't pay the bills with royalties from Sleepaway Camp. It's popular, but it ain't that popular.

Originally Posted by scififan73

And this situation with Sleepaway Camp is further food for thought regarding physical media.
In a real sense, owners of physical media ARE preservers of culture. A sobering thought, but that "old" blu ray of Sleepaway Camp just might be the best available copy of the film going forward.

Rights owners and the studios can't be trusted to be the only keepers of this stuff, as has been proven time and time again.

This, though, is a fact.

As proven when Criterion went to produce Life Of Brian, 99% of that film's elements were gone, and most of the other elements by that film's studio were gone, thrown out by new owners who gave not half an eff about anything, taken over by previous owners who'd saved every scrap of film that the studio had shot.

The same thing happened when Hallmark (the greeting card company) took over Filmation, after years of the OG owners and new owners saving and preserving everything.

I'm sure there's more studios we don't know about too.

And WB, Universal, RKO, 20th Century Fox, Disney, MGM, United Artists, and Columbia all have at least one notable story of royally fouling up film preservation, some so bad all you need to do is say "three-strip!" or "silents!" and everyone knows exactly what you're talking about.

I consider my assortment of films to be not a collection, but an archive that hopefully one day represents our history, film, television, and culture, maybe for the people 100 years after I'm gone who want to know if our time was as screwed up as theirs is.

Originally Posted by TripleHBK

This is a 300x200 image.

[Show spoiler]

This is the same image blown up 4x. The same jump in quality from 1080p to 4k. Would you want to watch this?

[Show spoiler]

You cannot create detail where none was ever present. What your implying is impossible. AI upscales can smooth and sharpen a lower resolution image but they are not true 4k images. Honestly it's that kind of talk that leads to all sorts of incorrect assumptions online.

Anything can be rescaled to a 4k container, but that doesn't make it worth watching. In most cases 4k upscales are utter bullshit. They are better than nothing when a title is stuck in the past on VHS, but they have no place when known camera negatives exist.

Originally Posted by bradenscottday

again, my point is with technology anything can happen. they wouldn’t “create detail where none was ever present” by upscaling the blu ray to 4k. i’m not sure why there’s tons of people who came out of the wood works knowing how it all works. i directly said i obviously can’t speak on it bc i don’t know how it does work tbh, but with technology if they want to they can find a way essentially. it’s crazy how far technology has come lol, sorta freaky

First, I'll make an exclusion for sub-4K content that's digital all the way, films that are shot on film but finished below 4K (usually a 2K DI), and films that have no surviving elements. Yeah, you gotta upscale those, even if it winds up sucking.

That aside, there's only one person in this entire world that I know believes upscaling is the key to a solid 4K release, and that guy is such a Smurf-obsessed wingnut that literally no one on earth even trusts him with a transfer anymore. When his first disc after his AI trifecta dropped, we actually celebrated that the disc didn't suck. That's how far he lowered the bar.

AI upscaling is not even almost the key to a solid 4K. That's a way to make me instantly turn away from a disc.