Creepshow Blu-ray Audio wrong and missing !

[GGX]

Originally Posted by radewagon

I picked up the US version today. Now, I don't claim to be an audio buff in any way. If the audio is clear, then I'm good to go. That said, I know that some of you are audio buffs and I post this for you. This is a screen grab playing off of my PS3. I have no external speakers, so the PS3's stats are my only proof of what I can only assume is a TrueHD audio track. If I'm wrong, though, don't get mad at me for trying. I'm pretty ignorant when it comes to different audio formats.

You did good son. You did good.

[benricci]

My US copy only has one audio track as well. Here's the weird thing. On my Sony 350, it says the track is TrueHD 2.0. On my bedroom player, the old Sony 300, it says it's Dolby Digital 2.0.

Bizarre, huh?

Whatever it is, it sounds fine (the stereo track sounds great, actually). Something is just funky with how the label is being displayed on certain players, I think.

[Rik1138]

Originally Posted by EvilDeadlyImmortal

It's because I want to know if i'm the only one that have this "error" on my Blu-Ray Disc, but the Audio is wrong on the package. It's written on the back that it contain an English TrueHD 2.0 and Dolby Digital 2.0 sound track, as well as a French 2.0 sound track, well, not really ! There is ONLY an English Dolby Digital 2.0 sound track on my disc, the TrueHD 2.0 and French one are not present, not even written in the Language section of the Menu !!!

It looks like you might have gotten a US disc in your Canadian packaging. What is the number on the disc itself (written around the edge of the printed label on the disc). Mine is 2000009172, I suspect the Canadian release with French language would be a different number.

Check the audio settings on your PS3 to make sure it's outputting PCM instead of Bitstream, and see if the screen display changes to TrueHD. (While playing the movie, click on Options on your remote (should bring up the PS3's menu), select Audio Settings (or something like that), and the bottom option should all you to toggle between Bitstream and PCM. Bitstream is the legacy AC3 stream only, PCM will play the Lossless stream if it's present.)

My disc has the exact same menu that yours does (mines a rental though, so I can't say what the packaging says). But, when I play it on my computer, it shows TrueHD (tsMuxer verifies this as well, and also displays the 192kb legacy stream, which is what I think you have your PS3 set to play.)

[steve_dave]

So it looks like Warner has changed to producing their BDs like Paramount's with this end of September batch of titles.

There is only one track selectable by the user but a second lossy track is hidden. You can't physically pick this second track at all because of the encoding.

So if you have your player setup properly for lossless or uncompressed audio then you will see TrueHD displayed on the player (not the receiver). However, if you sound is setup to go through optical/coazial output then you will see Dolby Digital displayed on your player (again, not the receiver).

Essentially, the player is picking the right track for the equipment so you need to make sure you have everything set up properly.

[EvilDeadlyImmortal]

Ok, first of all, i'm sorry to say that I can't tell you what is the number on the disc I had, because I returned it to HMV this afternoon and got refunded. Sorry.

What you are saying about the Bitstream and PCM setting on my PS3, you are right !!! It was at Bitstream, and now that I changed it to Linear PCM, i've try with The Dark Knight and it work ! Can't beleive that was 50% part of the problem ! Thanks for the info You just solved a part of the problem !

But there's still a problem with that disc now, why I was only able to see 1 track and not 3... where was the French one (probably the same would happen with it, if you have your PS3 or BD Player set to French as primary sound track, it will start in french, maybe), and why is there only one line in the Language Menu of the disc...???

[EvilDeadlyImmortal]

Originally Posted by steve_dave

There is only one track selectable by the user but a second lossy track is hidden. You can't physically pick this second track at all because of the encoding.

Seems like that, yeah.

Originally Posted by steve_dave

However, if you sound is setup to go through optical/coazial output then you will see Dolby Digital displayed on your player (again, not the receiver).

Not exactly. The sound of my PS3 is output via the Optical cable, not the HDMI cable, and with Linear PCM set, I can see the TrueHD 5.1 sound track on my PS3 Info Bar on the top, at approx. 2.4 mbps, so looks like it work for me on this one.

[Rik1138]

Originally Posted by steve_dave

There is only one track selectable by the user but a second lossy track is hidden. You can't physically pick this second track at all because of the encoding.

So if you have your player setup properly for lossless or uncompressed audio then you will see TrueHD displayed on the player (not the receiver). However, if you sound is setup to go through optical/coazial output then you will see Dolby Digital displayed on your player (again, not the receiver).

Essentially, the player is picking the right track for the equipment so you need to make sure you have everything set up properly.

Umm, that's how all lossless tracks have always worked since the beginning of Blu-Ray. It's not hidden, there's only one track (the lossless track). All lossless tracks (TrueHD or DTS-HD MA) also include a 'core' legacy track that will work with all digital decoders (so if you have a 10-year old dolby digital receiver, you can still play your Blu-Ray disc and get 5.1 audio (if present), you just won't benefit from the lossless part of it). If your equipment is set up for lossless, you get the lossless. If you have older equipment (or have it configured for the older standards), you get the legacy AC3 or DTS stream.

Studios used to put an _additional_, separate 5.1 AC3 track on discs that already had lossless tracks (which _contains_ that same 5.1 AC3 track already). But, they have gotten smart and realized this is a waste of space on the disc, so it's not being done as much anymore... If you only have one lossless track to put on the disc, there should only be one audio stream to choose. Your hardware setup should do the rest of the work for you. (This all applies to DTS too...)

And, yes, you really should make sure you have everything setup properly... Kinda makes life easier...

Originally Posted by EvilDeadlyImmortal

What you are saying about the Bitstream and PCM setting on my PS3, you are right !!! It was at Bitstream, and now that I changed it to Linear PCM, i've try with The Dark Knight and it work ! Can't beleive that was 50% part of the problem ! Thanks for the info You just solved a part of the problem !

But there's still a problem with that disc now, why I was only able to see 1 track and not 3... where was the French one, and why is there only one line in the Language Menu of the disc...???

Glad I could help! I believe the reason you didn't have the French audio on the disc is that the package contained (wrongly) the US version of the disc. The US release is a single, English lossless track only. I think it was a packaging error. Or, worse case, they've opted to only have an English track on the Canadian disc, and forgot to change the packaging...

[Rik1138]

Originally Posted by EvilDeadlyImmortal

Not exactly. The sound of my PS3 is output via the Optical cable, not the HDMI cable, and with Linear PCM set, I can see the TrueHD 5.1 sound track on my PS3 Info Bar on the top, at approx. 2.4 mbps, so looks like it work for me on this one.

Yeah, that's what the PS3 is decoding now. It's outputting the signal as PCM to your receiver though. If you are going through optical only, you might only be getting stereo PCM (I don't think it can send 5.1 PCM through the optical, but I might be wrong about that). You might be better off going back to bitstream for 5.1 titles to get full surround sound (but AC3, not lossless).

If you want to take advantage of the lossless audio, you need a receiver that can handle 5.1 (or 7.1) PCM audio with HDMI input (for the audio).

[steve_dave]

The PS3 is not able to output mulit-channel audio over optical. There is not enough bandwidth to do it.

So, the PS3 will downconvert PCM multi-channel audio to 2.0 over optical.

[F-Man]

Warner releases are the same in Canada and US, except sometimes they'll have bilingual packaging if the release includes French... So if the US release is supposed to be English only, so's the Canadian release. Looks like a packaging error.

[persuazion]

Originally Posted by HumanMedia

Cmon people these are $14.99 at Amazon.

Well Creepshow is but the other 2 arent.

[zeze]

So I am confused right now. Was the topic creator disc alright to begin with or was the audio missing. Because from the two menus posted they both look exactly the same. I really want to pick this up tonight but want to sort this problem out before I buy it.

[steve_dave]

It appears that there is no French audio on the disc. Its a misprint on the covers.

There is only one selectable track: English; The player, dependent on settings, chooses either TrueHD or DD audio.

Warner did this with P.S. I Love You in 2008, then went back to having two selectable language tracks. Now with the end of September 2009 batch of titles, they have gone back to the single lossless track with a backup lossy DD track. So now they are relying on the player's settings to output the proper track for the equipment.

[banned user105]

There's a slight mistake on the official review for this: 5/5 for supplements even though Dustin said "I was disappointed to find out the only supplement included on the disc is a standard definition theatrical trailer for Creepshow."

Also seems weird he'd give it 5/5 overall based on the individual scores so that might be a mistake as well.

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/movie...71&show=review

[shaft4]

Originally Posted by doctorthodt

There's a slight mistake on the official review for this: 5/5 for supplements even though Dustin said "I was disappointed to find out the only supplement included on the disc is a standard definition theatrical trailer for Creepshow."

Also seems weird he'd give it 5/5 overall based on the individual scores so that might be a mistake as well.

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/movie...71&show=review

Good catch! I'm not sure how I missed the scoring errors, but they've been updated to accurately reflect the disc.

Dustin

[zeze]

The French audio does not matter to me, but its is good to know that ALL discs have both audio tracks. I was actually going to pick this up today, but all the copies the plastic on the blu-ray case was all crippled up (some of you guys know what I am talking about). Its just me being picky but I have some cases like this and they don't look good. I will pick this up on Saturday then.

[Lyle_JP]

Umm, that's how all lossless tracks have always worked since the beginning of Blu-Ray. It's not hidden, there's only one track (the lossless track). All lossless tracks (TrueHD or DTS-HD MA) also include a 'core' legacy track that will work with all digital decoders (so if you have a 10-year old dolby digital receiver, you can still play your Blu-Ray disc and get 5.1 audio (if present), you just won't benefit from the lossless part of it). If your equipment is set up for lossless, you get the lossless. If you have older equipment (or have it configured for the older standards), you get the legacy AC3 or DTS stream.

Studios used to put an _additional_, separate 5.1 AC3 track on discs that already had lossless tracks (which _contains_ that same 5.1 AC3 track already). But, they have gotten smart and realized this is a waste of space on the disc, so it's not being done as much anymore.

You're partially right. If we were only talking about DTS you'd be 100% right. All DTS-HD HR and DTS-HD MA tracks have a legacy core at 1.5 Mbps**. This DTS core can be recognized by all previously available DTS decoders as a standard DTS track, which it is. A DTS-HD decoder must take the sound which is in the core, add it to the information encoded as extensions to the core, and eventually arrive at a lossless 5.1 track identical to the master.

Dobly TrueHD uses no core. The data present in a Dolby TrueHD signal is TrueHD data only. But on blu-ray*, all TrueHD tracks are required to have a pointer to a standard Dolby Digital track also present on the disc. This is treated by any blu-ray player as the "legacy core" track, but is still stored separately. That's why these "core" DD tracks can be of different bit rates (most are 640k, but some are 448k). It's because they have no real relation to the TrueHD track, and are not used at all in its decoding.

What's finally changing now is the ridiculous need to make menu options differentiating between the TrueHD and legacy tracks. Since setups in which the high resolution audio won't be bit-streamed (or decoded by the player) will be using the legacy track anyway, there's no reason for a separate menu item for it. But unlike the previous poster's insistence, they weren't unnecessarily doubling up tracks and wasting disc space.

* In HD-DVD, there was no requirement for a back-up legacy Dolby Digital track, since all HD-DVD players were required to decode TrueHD internally. HD-DVD players then had their own dedicated DTS or DD encoders to send the signal out to older receivers. So in essence, blu-ray players will playback a DD track stored on the disc in place of the TrueHD track, whereas HD-DVD players would actually decode TrueHD and re-encode it as something else.

** This applies to 5.1 tracks. DTS HD 2.0 tracks have smaller cores.

[TeresofBlood]

My question is about the transfer. I have both the US DVD and the UK ridiculous edition. The UK transfer is miles ahead of the US. I wonder what the blu-ray print is sourced from. If this was a restoration, they would probably boast it. If it is sourced from the same print as the US DVD, then we can safely assume that there is a much better transfer out there that will undoubtedly see the high def light of day in the future.

I took screen grabs a while back, comparing the two, but I don't have them on my PC any more.

[benricci]

Originally Posted by TeresofBlood

My question is about the transfer. I have both the US DVD and the UK ridiculous edition. The UK transfer is miles ahead of the US. I wonder what the blu-ray print is sourced from. If this was a restoration, they would probably boast it. If it is sourced from the same print as the US DVD, then we can safely assume that there is a much better transfer out there that will undoubtedly see the high def light of day in the future.

I took screen grabs a while back, comparing the two, but I don't have them on my PC any more.

Can't speak for the UK version, but the new blu-ray is light years beyond what the original DVD looked like. It's night and day on a large screen, really. And the stereo mix is surprisingly good, as well.

[Rik1138]

Originally Posted by Lyle_JP

Dobly TrueHD uses no core. The data present in a Dolby TrueHD signal is TrueHD data only. But on blu-ray*, all TrueHD tracks are required to have a pointer to a standard Dolby Digital track also present on the disc. This is treated by any blu-ray player as the "legacy core" track, but is still stored separately. That's why these "core" DD tracks can be of different bit rates (most are 640k, but some are 448k). It's because they have no real relation to the TrueHD track, and are not used at all in its decoding.

Close, but not quite. When a TrueHD track is created, a seperate AC3 track must also be created (you are correct that there is no correlation between them). So, you have an .MLP file (the lossless part), and an AC3 file (the lossy part), but, when they are put on the disc, the two files are muxed together into one .THD file, which is treated as one audio track on the disc. Rip a Blu-ray disc and demux the video/audio. If there's only one TrueHD track on the disc, you will get one .THD file for audio. If you want to separate the AC3 from that, you have to specifically demux the THD file itself.

In order for there to be a menu option to select a 5.1 (or whatever) AC3 stream, you have to author the disc with the 5.1 AC3 present _A SECOND TIME_. It's not possible (in authoring) to tell a Blu-ray player to only play the 5.1 'core' of a TrueHD track. It will play what the player configuration is set up for (MLP or AC3).

Take a look at the screen shot of the streams on the Creepshow disc in this thread (the txMuxer screen shot). There isn't a TrueHD stream and a 2.0 AC3 stream, there's just one TrueHD stream with an embedded legacy stream. It's one muxed file, and one audio track on the disc.

As for bitrates, you can encode the core of DTS at any bitrate you want (well, any one of the many options, at least). I can encode a DTS 5.1 code at 768Kbps in a DTS-HD MA stream if I want to...

Rik