Something had to be done! Missinformation continue to spread!

[Dave]

...now about the new Panasonic BD player.

Everyone at AVSForum is trying to suggest that the Panny is almost crap!

Some moderator posted that the Panny has the same "problems" like Samsung player.

I replied to him:

"The Panasonic had all the same issues as the Samsung (noise, soft picture, and a general unimpressive picture)."

Can i remind here, that the problems you mention are barely noticable?
And that "a general unimpressive picture" isn`t only your opinion? Come on! There was no problem with the Sammy, better understand that and stop fooling people!




"Panasonic BD player a let down for me"


Oh well, it seems that here, in the AVSForum, BLU-RAY will never win, and for us (the stupid BLU-RAY fans) have no other choice but to shake off to another, smaller place ... wich is ... THE REST OF THE WORLD!



And before you rush to slam the "PERMANENT BANN" button on my account i want to tell to you that this time i am behind a random proxy, so do not waste your time...

... and guess what! The post was delete instantly!


I dont know if Toshiba is paying these people to fool the human kind and make people decisions, but this have to be stopped.

Please if you can show some screens, and other thing that prove that Panny is way better than any Toshiba player, this will be great!

[Deciazulado]

It's called a War. Apparently is much more serious than it seems. Some official tests and measurements with test patterns and discs like in the days of old magazines (with actual technical results (video frequency, chroma noise etc etc,) would clear this up, but it's a Brave New World: the age of "Information"

All we want is the best in home theater movie experience, whatever that is. But some apparently have high stakes in this or self-interests.

I'm sure that all else being equal (equal masters, bit rates, codecs) an HD DVD image and a Blu-ray image would be the same (after all it would be the same data), but apparently, since the Blu-ray format has a couple of superior areas in its format, and someone might not benefit, there's a need (be it economical or psychological) by certain parties to make Blu-ray appear downright inferior in everything no matter what.

As I replied to hmurchison in another thread, if HD DVD's 36 mbs rate turns out to indeed be enough to be visually transparent for HD video images, then concerning video quality, one format is interchangeable with the other, and BD just gives you less disc changes.

There was a time when audiophile turntable companies were against digital sound and there were audiophiles that took every opportunity to try to sway people to reject CDs, but this is getting ridiculous.

[GoldenRedux]

Originally Posted by Deciazulado

It's called a War. Apparently is much more serious than it seems. Some official tests and measurements with test patterns and discs like in the days of old magazines (with actual technical results (video frequency, chroma noise etc etc,) would clear this up, but it's a Brave New World: the age of "Information".

I'm sure that all else being equal (equal masters, bit rates, codecs) an HD DVD image and a Blu-ray image would be the same (after all it would be the same data),...

I absolutely agree, unofrtunately, there is hardly any 'science' over on 'that' forum.

As I replied to hmurchison in another thread, if HD DVD's 36 mbs rate turns out to indeed be enough to be visually transparent for HD video images, then concerning video quality, one format is interchangeable with the other, and BD just gives you less disc changes.

I highly doubt that 36Mps is enough for transparency. I'm not even so sure the higher BD bitrate is enough for transparency.

There was a time when audiophile turntable companies were against digital sound and there were audiophiles that took every opportunity to try to sway people to reject CDs, but this is getting ridiculous.

A time? Apparently you haven't been to any audiophile forums lately.

[Deciazulado]

shhhh I have I was just making a comparison with another "introductory era".

different avatar you wear over there

Originally Posted by GoldenRedux

I highly doubt that 36Mps is enough for transparency. I'm not even so sure the higher BD bitrate is enough for transparency.

Well if that's the case more power to BD!

Hopefully AVC at 54mbs, if not transparent, might be nevertheless, enough for "excellent"?

I don't wanna whip out my decicaculator and try to interpolate while watching a mpeg2 dvd that looks "excellent"

[GoldenRedux]

Originally Posted by Deciazulado

shhhh I have I was just making a comparison with another "introductory era".

different avatar you wear over there

What, you mean this one
<---

Well if that's the case more power to BD!

Hopefully AVC at 54mbs, if not transparent, might be nevertheless, enough for "excellent"?

I should think so.

I don't wanna whip out my decicaculator and try to interpolate while watching a mpeg2 dvd that looks "excellent"

[Alex Pallas]

m$ fanbois are known to start rumors like this. it has something to do with the fact that they know they are wrong, can't admit it, and do anything to avoid becoming the loosers.

oh, yeah it a trait of internet nazis as well, a well known tactic in the circles of bill gates.

[phloyd]

HD DVD is the look and sound of perfect so... do they expect Bluray to be the look and sound of better than perfect? haha.

The reality is we should not expect any of these players to look better than any other. The decoder is connected to HDMI - there is no room for the picture to degrade (though Samsung has that extra scaler) so they should all look the same. Period. HD DVD and Bluray.

Anyone who has differing expectations should revisit them

Soundwise, using the analogue outputs could result in variations since we know how easy it is to make a difference there.

Anyways, the reviewers that said that they all look the same with HD content are most likely speaking the truth. Though selling Toshibas based on their 'better DVD playback' is stupid since I think it is better to be able to play back more HD content rather than DVDs - nobody I know of into HD wants to watch DVDs...

Cheers!

[GoldenRedux]

Originally Posted by phloyd

The reality is we should not expect any of these players to look better than any other. The decoder is connected to HDMI - there is no room for the picture to degrade (though Samsung has that extra scaler) so they should all look the same. Period. HD DVD and Bluray.

I disagree. I would fully expect a Blu-ray player to look 'better' than an HD DVD player when that BD player is playing back a BD-50 disc that is encoded to take advantage of the higher BD mux rate and peak bitrate, which HD DVD cannot achieve. Now, when playing back material with identical transfers/encodings, they should look identical or nearly identical.

Anyone who has differing expectations should revisit them

See above.

[zombie]

Golden: Who is the chic in your avatar?

[GoldenRedux]

Originally Posted by nyg

Golden: Who is the chic in your avatar?

She is the actress Shiri Appleby, best known for her role as 'Liz Parker' on the now defunct teen sci-fi drama Roswell.

[phloyd]

Originally Posted by GoldenRedux

I disagree. I would fully expect a Blu-ray player to look 'better' than an HD DVD player when that BD player is playing back a BD-50 disc that is encoded to take advantage of the higher BD mux rate and peak bitrate, which HD DVD cannot achieve.

How likely is it that you will ever see that?

It is possible with Paramount using MPEG2 and VC-1 so that the encodes will be slightly different.

But really their quality control will be at fault if the HD DVD release looks any worse than the Bluray of the same title assuming they aim for transparency to the master.

[GoldenRedux]

Originally Posted by phloyd

How likely is it that you will ever see that?

I didn't say anything about likely, I just said I would expect it to be different assuming tweaked bitrates for BD

It is possible with Paramount using MPEG2 and VC-1 so that the encodes will be slightly different.

That's a given, but we're talking about the same codecs

But really their quality control will be at fault if the HD DVD release looks any worse than the Bluray of the same title assuming they aim for transparency to the master.

They could be aiming for transparency, but that doesn't mean it can be achieved at lower bitrates. It doesn't even mean it can be achieved at the higher BD bitrates. The question is, how or why would you not expect better PQ at higher bitrates, however likely or unlikely it may be to happen?

I don't know about you, but I am sure that there has to be at the very least one studio out there, big or small, that would like to take advantage of the larger capacity and higher bitrates of BD. Isn't that what DVD releases from the likes of Criterion and Superbit releases have been about all these years, maximising the technology? Why would it not occur for Blu-ray?

[phloyd]

Originally Posted by GoldenRedux

The question is, how or why would you not expect better PQ at higher bitrates, however likely or unlikely it may be to happen?

If a different encode was done with the same codec at different bitrates, I would expect that you might notice a difference.

But back here in the real world, Warner is going to use the same encode for both formats... there is no reward for them to spend the extra $$$ to do a new encode.

I don't know about you, but I am sure that there has to be at the very least one studio out there, big or small, that would like to take advantage of the larger capacity and higher bitrates of BD. Isn't that what DVD releases from the likes of Criterion and Superbit releases have been about all these years, maximising the technology? Why would it not occur for Blu-ray?

Maybe one day.

I stand by what I said - in the real world, we should not expect Bluray to look better than HD DVD.

Our only hope for it to do so is Disney and Fox with high bitrate H.264 encodes. The trailers for Pirates and Pearl Harbor do look very good.

It is ok for them to exceed my expectations

[GoldenRedux]

Originally Posted by phloyd

If a different encode was done with the same codec at different bitrates, I would expect that you might notice a difference.

But back here in the real world, Warner is going to use the same encode for both formats... there is no reward for them to spend the extra $$$ to do a new encode.

I agree

Maybe one day.

I stand by what I said - in the real world, we should not expect Bluray to look better than HD DVD.

Unless someone does put out a tweaked BD version, in the real world.

Our only hope for it to do so is Disney and Fox with high bitrate H.264 encodes.

I sure hope that happens. Given that Fox usually does good DVD transfers and they are only doing Blu-ray, it's a possibility for sure, I would think.

It is ok for them to exceed my expectations