What "Mono Mode" to Use on Onkyo 605?

[Linksys2.4]

I believe this has been covered a long time back in a different thread where a member asked questions about "stereo mono" or something to that effect, and Casual Killer had mentioned "mono is not one channel"...I believe this is incorrect, as normally, DVD (or some Blu-ray) soundtracks are encoded as "1.0" or "2.0" mono (the 2.0 version seems to collapse into the center speaker via PLII processing when a surround system is being used...) and the essence of mono is one channel, even though some "experts" and "purists" claim old theaters would pump out a mono sountrack from ALL speakers in the array...but this is an argument for another day that we can get back to.

My question is regarding a suitable listening mode for playing back mono tracks on my equipment, because I have a great deal of old films in the collection which carry these 1.0 and 2.0 tracks -- right now, I have my Onkyo 605 set, under the listening mode presets (for the DVD input), as follows: Digital Format 2 Channel: PLII MOVIE and Digital Format Mono: MONO MOVIE. The thing is, when a DVD soundtrack carries a "2.0 mono" (or "Big Fat Mono" as its known in the industry), my Pro Logic II circuit kicks in and sends the entire track to the center speaker, as it senses identical information on the "two channel" encoding and drops the sum into the center. Now, with TRUE 1.0 mono soundtracks on discs, the receiver senses this and utilizes Onkyo's "MONO MOVIE" mode (based on what I picked as a listening mode preset) and this is SUPPOSED to drop the signal into the center channel while adding reverb-like effects to the other channels...

The problem is, using MONO MOVIE, I hear nothing coming from any of the other speakers, and the whole soundtrack comes from just the center -- of course, when it's a 2.0 MONO soundtrack, the receiver drops the whole thing into the center, as well. I have been told over the years that the ONLY way to watch an old film and to listen to its mono soundtrack is to let it come from the center position only -- but I'm wondering if there's another mode I should be using for these old mono soundtracks; the Onkyo receivers also have a "MONO" mode which simply puts the track into the two main speakers (which I've tried with 2.0 mono tracks, but it doesn't sound right at all -- there's a weird comb filtering effect from between the speakers) or a FULL MONO mode, which is like ALL CHANNEL STEREO, which forces the sound from all speakers in the system. I've tried this too, but it really sounds odd with dialogue coming from all channels; the soundfield is all screwed up this way. And then there's MONO MOVIE, which is supposed to add "reverb" to the other channels with an old 1.0 track, but the "effect" doesn't seem to work although the main mix stays in the center.

Anyone have any thoughts on the mono debacle? Again, please keep in mind: 2.0 Mono means the SAME signal is encoded in two channels (it's not stereo, and it really SHOULDN'T be coming from the two mains) and when my 605 sees a 2.0 Mono signal, it drops the whole thing into the center channel via Pro Logic II Movie circuitry...is a center-only position the "correct" way to listen to old film soundtracks that carry mono mixes?

[Linksys2.4]

Anyone?

[Linksys2.4]

Anyone have any input on this? Any other Onkyo owners?

[Linksys2.4]

Anyone using their Onkyos with mono soundtracks???

[CasualKiller]

I said mono is the same signal to both channels where as stereo is an actual L and R signal.

Because mono does not mean one speaker. When you play in stereo your receiver splits the signal into left channel info and right channel info. When you run in mono there is no split and both channels receive the same info.

[Linksys2.4]

Originally Posted by CasualKiller

I said mono is the same signal to both channels where as stereo is an actual L and R signal.

My apologies, 'Killer -- but, you must have been referring to "two channel mono" then? Because that's what 2.0 means -- the same signal to both channels, while stereo they're "dedicated" (so to speak) left and right signals...

If I misunderstood you, I apologize.

[CasualKiller]

Think I posted a link to a page explaining the differences, on the AV receiver it's entirely possible that "mono" has a completely different meaning.

[Linksys2.4]

On receivers, these "Mono" modes either deliver the sound properly (to the center, as I have learned) or there are submodes which send the signal to all speakers, just the two fronts, etc.

What I'm wondering is if people watching older DVDs and Blu-rays which contain 2.0 mono soundtracks play them through the center when their Pro Logic II circuits kick in and send the whole 2.0 track to the center...

[Linksys2.4]

So, does anyone use their Onkyo receivers in a Mono Mode to watch old films?

[Vagrant_1]

Originally Posted by Linksys2.4

So, does anyone use their Onkyo receivers in a Mono Mode to watch old films?

would love to help ya out but my Onkyo is getting repaired at the moment

[Linksys2.4]

Originally Posted by Vagrant_1

would love to help ya out but my Onkyo is getting repaired at the moment

I'm sorry to hear that, Vagrant...

Thanks for the reply anyway...

Did you use your Onkyo for mono soundtrack playback at all? If so, which modes did you use?

[Drew664]

I've got an Onkyo, but only 1 movie that has a mono track.

Godzilla King of the Monsters

What is it I need to be looking for?

[Linksys2.4]

Originally Posted by Drew664

I've got an Onkyo, but only 1 movie that has a mono track.

Godzilla King of the Monsters

What is it I need to be looking for?

Thank you, Drew!

I wanted to know which "mono mode" on your Onkyo you use to play back these kinds of soundtracks...

Currently, I am letting my Pro Logic II's circuits handle 2.0 mono soundtracks, which sends the whole track to the center channel...when a film has a true 1.0 mono track, my Onkyo 605's "Mono Movie" mode is used as the default listening mode, and the whole track is dropped into the center as well, but the receiver is supposed to add "reverb" effects to the rest of the channels, which I do not hear at all...

[Drew664]

OK, I just put in the movie.

Mono mode:

My center channel handles the bulk of the audio while my left/right and center also get the reverb effect.


Mono movie mode:

Again, my center channel handles the bulk of the audio, and all of my surrounds get the same sound that my left/right were getting with mono mode.

The reverb effect is very minimal on both though. And also due to the soundtrack, I hear much more static through my speakers than clean sound.

As far as what I listen to this movie in, I usually select the 5.1 option from the menu, and bypass the mono audio in general.

If you don't beleive that the mono movie mode adds the reverb effect, put your ear to a back speaker and select mono mode. There should be no sound coming from it. Then switch to mono movie mode, where you should be able to hear at the very least, something.

[Linksys2.4]

Originally Posted by Drew664

OK, I just put in the movie.

Mono mode:

My center channel handles the bulk of the audio while my left/right and center also get the reverb effect.

That's not supposed to happen in "MONO" mode on the Onkyos -- in MONO, the sound is supposed to come (although I don't know why this is appealing) from either the left, right or BOTH left and right main channels...

It's MONO MOVIE mode that's supposed to use more channels than this, which I'll get to now...

Mono movie mode:

Again, my center channel handles the bulk of the audio, and all of my surrounds get the same sound that my left/right were getting with mono mode.

The reverb effect is very minimal on both though. And also due to the soundtrack, I hear much more static through my speakers than clean sound.

Right -- in MONO MOVIE, the center is supposed to handle all the audio but add like a fake kind of "reverb" effect; I don't hear it on my system. But I don't understand what you mean by "the surrounds get the same sound that my left/right were getting with mono mode"...

First of all, is Godzilla 1.0 mono or 2.0 mono? This makes a difference in how the receiver is processing the signal...

As far as what I listen to this movie in, I usually select the 5.1 option from the menu, and bypass the mono audio in general.

EDIT: I didn't read your reply right; you are saying that you select the 5.1 surround option from the DISC'S menu instead of mono; okay. Sorry. Gotcha. I do the same when there is that option.

If you don't beleive that the mono movie mode adds the reverb effect, put your ear to a back speaker and select mono mode. There should be no sound coming from it. Then switch to mono movie mode, where you should be able to hear at the very least, something.

This is interesting and I will try it -- BUT LIKE I SAID, the reason why there is no audio out of the surrounds in MONO MODE is because the receiver drops the track into either the left or right or BOTH left and right in this mode...it's like using STEREO mode for playing back either 1.0 or 2.0 mono tracks, where the mono track comes from both the main speakers. This sounds awful to me, creating an out of phase weirdness between the channels that I don't care for.

[Drew664]

That's not supposed to happen in "MONO" mode on the Onkyos -- in MONO, the sound is supposed to come (although I don't know why this is appealing) from either the left, right or BOTH left and right main channels...

It's MONO MOVIE mode that's supposed to use more channels than this, which I'll get to now...

Well, I double checked this, and you are probably correct. The receiver doesn't 'shut off' my left and right channels though. They are getting a steady flow of static, which my rear speakers are not sending off, because the receiver has them 'shut off'.

Right -- in MONO MOVIE, the center is supposed to handle all the audio but add like a fake kind of "reverb" effect; I don't hear it on my system. But I don't understand what you mean by "the surrounds get the same sound that my left/right were getting with mono mode"...

First of all, is Godzilla 1.0 mono or 2.0 mono? This makes a difference in how the receiver is processing the signal...

Well, when I press 'select' on my PS3 controller, which shows disc information, it lists the mono track as 2 channel. The reverb effect I was talking about had to do with all the static I was hearing. Mono movie mode however had more of the actual movie playing through the rear speakers than the left/right static on mono mode.

I don't play around with these options, so if you have more questions, ask away. There's a good chance I'm not reporting something correctly!

[Linksys2.4]

Originally Posted by Drew664

Well, I double checked this, and you are probably correct. The receiver doesn't 'shut off' my left and right channels though. They are getting a steady flow of static, which my rear speakers are not sending off, because the receiver has them 'shut off'.

That's weird...in which mode does your receiver not shut off the left and right channels?

Well, when I press 'select' on my PS3 controller, which shows disc information, it lists the mono track as 2 channel. The reverb effect I was talking about had to do with all the static I was hearing. Mono movie mode however had more of the actual movie playing through the rear speakers than the left/right static on mono mode.

Okay, so Godzilla is 2.0 mono -- good to know. I have been playing back 2.0 mono tracks by letting the receiver use "Pro Logic II Movie" mode (because it's a two-channel signal) which dumps the entire track into the center channel.

That's weird that you're getting "static"; I don't get this at all in my system. Are your channels all the way up in your calibration menu of the receiver? MONO MOVIE, which is what I use for true 1.0 mono soundtracks, does send the track into the center, too, but IT'S SUPPOSED TO add that reverb I'm talking about -- but you say there is more information in the rears in this mode, which is what it is supposed to do, yet I don't hear it...all so weird.

I don't play around with these options, so if you have more questions, ask away. There's a good chance I'm not reporting something correctly!

I appreciate your reporting. Just don't use MONO mode when playing back mono material -- it puts the track into the front main channels and that sounds weird with a comb filtering effect...

[Vagrant_1]

Originally Posted by Linksys2.4

I'm sorry to hear that, Vagrant...

Thanks for the reply anyway...

Did you use your Onkyo for mono soundtrack playback at all? If so, which modes did you use?

Yes I did while watching Casablanca and Replusion and others.. I believe my center handled the sound but I thought it was supposed be my left n right that took the weight but anyways that was awhile ago so don't hold me to it

[Linksys2.4]

Originally Posted by Vagrant_1

Yes I did while watching Casablanca and Replusion and others.. I believe my center handled the sound but I thought it was supposed be my left n right that took the weight but anyways that was awhile ago so don't hold me to it

That's a common "error" made by people running mainly 2.0 mono tracks -- they send the soundtrack to the two front mains because they feel it "immerses" their room more in sound, but this creates what is known as a "comb filtering effect" that sounds weird with the same mono signal coming from the two main channels...

I THINK center only is the way to go, but I'm curious how others play their mono tracks...

[Drew664]

That's weird...in which mode does your receiver not shut off the left and right channels?

Mono mode.

However, this could be due to the source material which is very staticy to begin with. I could cross check this with a blu ray to see if it's the source material or possibly bad wiring. My money is on the DVD's audio track itself though, as I never notice that amount of static even at higher volume levels. I see where you find this odd that a Mono mode has sound (albeit just static) coming through my front left and right. Doesn't much bother me though as I don't use Mono listening modes.