Wich format should i choose???

[dipset420]

I have been searching websites trying to find out wich format to invest into. most people say to go HD-DVD but im not sure about it.
blu-ray has more movie studios backing it wich is why i think its a better choice than hd-dvd. people say that blu-ray is using technology that is 10 years old an hd-dvd is using brand new technology. i just want to know wich one i should choose so can you help.

also another thing i want to know is can you copy standard dvd's to blu-ray on the blu-ray player.
please no fanboys i just want people that know what they are talking about

i just read something that if people try to tinker with their blu-ray players (like stopping region coding and stuff like that) they can shut down your player because it will be hooked up to the internet. so when you buy a blu-ray player you have to connect it to the internet??
here is the link http://www.engadget.com/2005/09/02/b...ck-their-gear/

[hmurchison]

look at the studio selection and see what movie studios you prefer. While HD DVD doesn't have all the studios I tend to find my personal studio preferences are

Universal
Paramount and Fox (about the same)
Warner

Sony/Columbia has the least amount of appealing titles to me.
I like Lionsgate but they have relatively few "Must have" movies for me.

In the end you'll notice a trend with some studios about movies you like. See what platform supports your choice the best. Also consider cost. Are you willing to spend $1000 for a dedicated player or $499? You could also go the game console route and get a PS3 or an Xbox 360 with an HD DVD player add on.

Either way your options are plentiful and the quality you get with both formats is excellent at best. Let us know how we can help you "gearslut" out LOL.

[vick vega]

no you don't have to have your blu-ray player hooked up to the internet,I was informed that the pioneer blu-ray player has an ethernet port for playing a movie over a home network so you don't have to have multiple players. If you want to play it safe I'd go with the ps3, that's what some people here seem to be taking as both the 20 and 60 gig version will have hdmi. I'm personally going w/the bdp-s1 for the new audio decoders. Welcome to the forum.

[AV_Integrated]

The obvious answer you will hear HERE is Blu-ray. But, let me try to make an honeset breakdown of considerations.

1. Longevity - Blu-ray has far more consumer electronics manufactuers and far more studios producing movies. This means more stores will be selling it and more people will have access to it.

2. Price - HD-DVD has Blu-ray beat on this, right now, period. $500 for the cheaper HD-DVD player, $1,000 for the Samsung. But, if the format won't have the movies you want, and may not be around for more than 2 or 3 years, then what's the point? Still, an extra $500 spent is tough to swallow. FYI: PS3 at $500 may (MAY!) be a very good Blu-ray player, but will be tough to come by in upcoming months.

3. Movies you want. While Blu-ray is 50% younger than HD-DVD, it has only 25% fewer titles on the market. By years end it may be identical, and by next year Blu-ray will start pulling ahead for movie releases. About 90% of the most popular films of the last 25 years will be available on Blu-ray. About 50% will be on HD-DVD. If you are bummed that you won't get King Kong right away, think about not getting any of the Disney/Pixar films or other major Disney/Sony/etc. releases that are not scheduled for HD-DVD.

4. RUMORS: Blu-ray is using MPEG2 which is a 10 year old technology so it sucks. FACT: Blu-ray and HD-DVD allow for studios to use MPEG2, AVC, and VC-1 compression. Blu-ray has used MPEG2 on Tears of the Sun which is considered by some to be the best HD disc release to date - or at least near the best. Other studios, such as Warner, use VC-1 for both their HD-DVD and Blu-ray releases. Disney has been using AVC for most of their releases. Bottom line: Quality between the two formats is nearly identical, but the earliest HD-DVD releases looked better than the earliest Blu-ray releases. In 2 years, nobody will remember that.

5. Storage capacity: Blu-ray has 66% more storage space per layer than HD-DVD. No matter how others try to break it down, that is the fact. Blu-ray is specified for dual-layer 50GB discs and HD-DVD currently only allows 30GB dual-layer discs. The full impact of this has not been discovered. But, potentially, these 50GB discs could allow for full HD extras for content, extra HD audio formats, and more interactivity across a single disc which HD-DVD simply will not be able to match at the highest levels. But, it may be close.

6. RUMOR: Blu-ray movies cost more than HD-DVD movies. FACT: This incredible rumor was started by HD-DVD fanbois prior to any Blu-ray movie official releases. In fact, not one Blu-ray title that I know of has hit the shelves for more than the HD-DVD counterpart. Pricing tends to be identical, and Warner has even announced a MSRP on Superman Returns that is LOWER for Blu-ray and higher for HD-DVD. Go figure.

7. RUMOR: Blu-ray dual layer discs (50GB) will never come out. FACT: Heck, even I didn't think we would see them this year, but Sony promised them to us in November... Yet, here it is in mid-October and 'CLICK!' is out on Blu-ray as a dual-layer 50GB title. More titles are scheduled for later this month/year and as equipment is made to press dual layer discs, we will see more and more BD50 titles.

8. HD-DVD requires new audio codecs be supported. Blu-ray doesn't. Yes, while this is true, Blu-ray does support PCM uncompressed audio on the disc. So, instead of getting a new 'compressed' audio format for your movies, you get rock solid UNCOMPRESSED audio which should always beat the compressed version. And since Blu-ray really has the space to work with it, the end user with a nice system is the one who will benefit the most.

9. Oh yeah - this should have been earlier on... But, who makes HD-DVD players? For stand alone there is Toshiba and a Toshiba made, RCA badged player. The FUTURE of HD-DVD includes a player from Microsoft that goes with the X-Box 360 and two new players from Toshiba. Nothing else is for sure at this time. Blu-ray? Players are out from Samsung and Panasonic. By the end of this year, Sony and Pioneer as well as Philips should be out. Sharp and LG should follow shortly thereafter. PS3 will ship with Blu-ray built into the box and likely a free movie to show people what the potential of Blu-ray is. All told: Blu-ray by March of next year should have 7 different manufacturers with at least 8 different players compared to 3 different manufacturers for HD-DVD and 4 different players.

In the end, the ONLY reason not to get Blu-ray is because it costs more. Perhaps if you absolutely, positively must have the Universal titles - right now. Over the next year, we may seem some shifting of loyalty and perhaps some studios will switch sides or produce in both formats, but as of now, there is no indication of that. For those who are worried, I recommend they wait. For those who want something but are worried, I would look into getting a PS3. I have mine pre-ordered with EB Games and because I did my homework, it only took me 15 minutes at the store to get on the pre-order list. Amazon and Toys-r-Us may be doing pre-orders as well soon.

[Dave]

Blu-Ray can fit 4 hd dvds inside 1 BLU-RAY disc.
Blu-Ray can go 200GB (TDK anounced 200GB prototype).
Blu-Ray movies are cheaper and have better quality than hd dvd.
Blu-Ray have more support. 90% of world companys support blu-ray.
Blu-Ray have more players and more hollywood studio support.

[hmurchison]

Originally Posted by Dave

Blu-Ray can fit 4 hd dvds inside 1 BLU-RAY disc.
Blu-Ray can go 200GB (TDK anounced 200GB prototype).
Blu-Ray movies are cheaper and have better quality than hd dvd.
Blu-Ray have more support. 90% of world companys support blu-ray.
Blu-Ray have more players and more hollywood studio support.

False- 4*15 = 60GB
False- 200GB discs are 33GB per layer and not supported in the BD Spec
False- 7 of 8 studios doesn't equal %90
the last question is redundant yet false. 7 different laptop manufacturers make HD DVD enabled laptops that play movies just fine.

To the original poster. I've offered you the most sage advice without trying to cram what I want down your throat. Look at the studios and the various movies and highlight which movies are "must haves". Add the numbers of studios and see which format meets your value proposition. You will only be mislead by people when they start talking about specs and feeds and speeds. The proof is in what movies you want and how "they" look in HD. Your eyes will tell you more than any spec can.

[AV_Integrated]

This is, in my opinion, exactly what fans of Blu-ray should NEVER say, because it is so misleading...

Originally Posted by Dave

Blu-Ray can fit 4 hd dvds inside 1 BLU-RAY disc.

Blu-ray has 66% more storage per layer - that is the ONLY spec that matters. For movies, Blu-ray may not go above 50GB. For data, neither HD-DVD nor Blu-ray have delivered what may be considered their 'best' product to date and any speculation or 'lab' results used as 'fact' is pure guesswork.

Originally Posted by Dave

Blu-Ray can go 200GB (TDK anounced 200GB prototype).

As said above... A lab disc is not mass production and is a long, long way from a consumer product at a reasonable price. Please stick to real world releases or officially announced releases. Either way, 200GB discs can NOT be used for Blu-ray movies.

Originally Posted by Dave

Blu-Ray movies are cheaper and have better quality than hd dvd.

No, they aren't and don't typically. Blu-ray, at this time, is reported to be almost identical for pricing per GB of data for production runs. About twenty cents separates the cheapest discs (HD-DVD single layer) from the most expenisve discs (HD-DVD dual layer and unknown for Blu-ray dual layer) with Blu-ray single layer falling between. About $1.50 on average or so.
Quality has been discussed at length with both formats being about equal right now.

Originally Posted by Dave

Blu-Ray have more support. 90% of world companys support blu-ray.

90% of studio releases for movie titles. Please don't go overboard as Denon, Yamaha, and a TON of specialty manufacturers have not officially announced players for either format for sure (rumors yes, fact no). Plus, PC manufacturers should be considered, etc. Only studio support is at 90% and about half of those supporters also support HD-DVD.

Originally Posted by Dave

Blu-Ray have more players and more hollywood studio support.

More CE and more studio support. But, right now, HD-DVD actually has more players. So, the word 'will' is important. Blu-ray will have more players before the year is out from more CE manufacturers and has significantly more studio support even if they don't yet have more titles. They will.

Not meant as a bash, since I clearly feel Blu-ray is going to win, but inaccurate statements sure as heck won't help people really understand what Blu-ray really offers over HD-DVD.

[dipset420]

Well about picking a format based on the movie studios they have isnt really a reason to buy i because they only have universal exlcusive over blu-ray.

I have over 200 standard dvd's in my collection of everything from paramount, fox, universal, miramax, columbia, WB, new line any many more.

anyway universal has a few movies that i love but not enough to make my decision on.

if the movie studios that are exclusive to blu-ray go onto hd-dvd i think hd-dvd would win IMO.

but whats with all this talk about dual layer discs because i dont want to have to get up and flip the disc over in the middle of the movie like in GANGS OF NEW YORK, and the 1st release of GOODFELLAS.

so can you cleap that whole dual layer disc thing up for me

[hmurchison]

Not a problem

Studio Support is bound to change. I'd bet you "Dollars to Donuts" that Universal is supporting Blu-Ray possibly as early as xmas 2007 and that Buena Vista/Disney, Lionsgate and perhaps a few smaller studios not currently making HD DVDs will be onboard at the same timeframe. In fact some people have hinted that Lionsgate could make an announcement this year. Who knows. When asked about HD plans evidently they stated something like a future announcement would ensue. I cannot verify this with a link so take it for what it's worth.

The only time you will need to flip a movie is if you have a combo HD DVD disc that has regular DVD on one side and HD DVD on the other. Both formats easily hold 4hrs of HD content so only on the longest movies would you even have to worry.

I'd say and ideal solution to someone who doesn't want to wait and likes console gaming to

Buy a PS3 and a HD-A1. You cover both platforms and more and will be able to play every HD movie out there save the PC formatted WMV videos.

[zombie]

Originally Posted by hmurchison

I'd say and ideal solution to someone who doesn't want to wait and likes console gaming to

Buy a PS3 and a HD-A1. You cover both platforms and more and will be able to play every HD movie out there save the PC formatted WMV videos.

Why not recommend the PS3 and the XBox 360 with the HD DVD add on? That $1200 will keep you covered and if one of both HD disc formats would fail, you still have two game consoles which are sure to have tons of games for years to come.

[AV_Integrated]

Originally Posted by dipset420

so can you cleap that whole dual layer disc thing up for me

Dual layer discs put 2 layers of data onto the same side of a disc. For Blu-ray, it is 2 25GB layers on the SAME side of the disc. It is a common practice and is done by DVD manufacturers all the time. If you watch a DVD movie and you have ever noticed about a 1 or 2 second pause about halfway (or so) through many titles you watch... well, that's the DVD player switching from layer one to layer two!

Multi-layer discs do not require you to flip it over. DUAL SIDED discs are what you will hear about the need to flip over. You have possibly seen DVDs that are dual sided. Typically this is when the 'WIDESCREEN' version is on one side and the 'FULL SCREEN' version is on the other. In the end, you just have to put the disc in with the correct side up, then you don't have to flip it over during the movie.

No. Nobody likes to flip a disc over or have their movie interrupted - and HD-DVD nor Blu-ray Disc will require you to do this.

[dipset420]

will the ps3 upconvet standard dvd's like the regular blu-ray players?

a lot of you say to buy both formats if you have a 360 and plan on getting a ps3 but i dont think thats smart because wich ever one wins hen you have dvd's of a format that arent made anymore and if you player breaks then you have dvd's that are useless.

there was once talks of blu-ray and hd-dvd combining or something like that so do you think a whole new format will come out like a mixture of hd-dvd and blu-ray

[PurpleAardvark]

Originally Posted by nyg

Why not recommend the PS3 and the XBox 360 with the HD DVD add on? That $1200 will keep you covered and if one of both HD disc formats would fail, you still have two game consoles which are sure to have tons of games for years to come.

100% agreed. They Hd A1 has some issues, with some people. If not the 360 add on wait till the A2 comes out.

[AV_Integrated]

Originally Posted by dipset420

will the ps3 upconvet standard dvd's like the regular blu-ray players?

...do you think a whole new format will come out like a mixture of hd-dvd and blu-ray

Yes, the PS3 is supposed to upconvert.

No, a new format will NOT come along. There is the possibility that dual format players (HD-DVD/Blu-ray) will come along. But, not anytime soon I would expect unless Blu-ray patents allow for their technology to coexist with the competing technology.

[jason]

Just to clarify something from one of the earlier posts, and please dont think Im bagging on BD, but Blu-ray is actually over 4 years old vs HD-DVD maybe year-year and half?

and of course getting more and more redundant... bd has more studio and ce support blah blah blah... but yet hd is still selling 3:1 or 11:1 (depending which source) to BD.

Please noone get defensive but I think its personaly pref. and comes down to the movies you actually want to see in Hi Def. Also of course the cost (which sucks btw)

[Bullseye]

Originally Posted by AV_Integrated

The obvious answer you will hear HERE is Blu-ray. But, let me try to make an honeset breakdown of considerations.

1. Longevity - Blu-ray has far more consumer electronics manufactuers and far more studios producing movies. This means more stores will be selling it and more people will have access to it.

2. Price - HD-DVD has Blu-ray beat on this, right now, period. $500 for the cheaper HD-DVD player, $1,000 for the Samsung. But, if the format won't have the movies you want, and may not be around for more than 2 or 3 years, then what's the point? Still, an extra $500 spent is tough to swallow. FYI: PS3 at $500 may (MAY!) be a very good Blu-ray player, but will be tough to come by in upcoming months.

3. Movies you want. While Blu-ray is 50% younger than HD-DVD, it has only 25% fewer titles on the market. By years end it may be identical, and by next year Blu-ray will start pulling ahead for movie releases. About 90% of the most popular films of the last 25 years will be available on Blu-ray. About 50% will be on HD-DVD. If you are bummed that you won't get King Kong right away, think about not getting any of the Disney/Pixar films or other major Disney/Sony/etc. releases that are not scheduled for HD-DVD.

4. RUMORS: Blu-ray is using MPEG2 which is a 10 year old technology so it sucks. FACT: Blu-ray and HD-DVD allow for studios to use MPEG2, AVC, and VC-1 compression. Blu-ray has used MPEG2 on Tears of the Sun which is considered by some to be the best HD disc release to date - or at least near the best. Other studios, such as Warner, use VC-1 for both their HD-DVD and Blu-ray releases. Disney has been using AVC for most of their releases. Bottom line: Quality between the two formats is nearly identical, but the earliest HD-DVD releases looked better than the earliest Blu-ray releases. In 2 years, nobody will remember that.

5. Storage capacity: Blu-ray has 66% more storage space per layer than HD-DVD. No matter how others try to break it down, that is the fact. Blu-ray is specified for dual-layer 50GB discs and HD-DVD currently only allows 30GB dual-layer discs. The full impact of this has not been discovered. But, potentially, these 50GB discs could allow for full HD extras for content, extra HD audio formats, and more interactivity across a single disc which HD-DVD simply will not be able to match at the highest levels. But, it may be close.

6. RUMOR: Blu-ray movies cost more than HD-DVD movies. FACT: This incredible rumor was started by HD-DVD fanbois prior to any Blu-ray movie official releases. In fact, not one Blu-ray title that I know of has hit the shelves for more than the HD-DVD counterpart. Pricing tends to be identical, and Warner has even announced a MSRP on Superman Returns that is LOWER for Blu-ray and higher for HD-DVD. Go figure.

7. RUMOR: Blu-ray dual layer discs (50GB) will never come out. FACT: Heck, even I didn't think we would see them this year, but Sony promised them to us in November... Yet, here it is in mid-October and 'CLICK!' is out on Blu-ray as a dual-layer 50GB title. More titles are scheduled for later this month/year and as equipment is made to press dual layer discs, we will see more and more BD50 titles.

8. HD-DVD requires new audio codecs be supported. Blu-ray doesn't. Yes, while this is true, Blu-ray does support PCM uncompressed audio on the disc. So, instead of getting a new 'compressed' audio format for your movies, you get rock solid UNCOMPRESSED audio which should always beat the compressed version. And since Blu-ray really has the space to work with it, the end user with a nice system is the one who will benefit the most.

9. Oh yeah - this should have been earlier on... But, who makes HD-DVD players? For stand alone there is Toshiba and a Toshiba made, RCA badged player. The FUTURE of HD-DVD includes a player from Microsoft that goes with the X-Box 360 and two new players from Toshiba. Nothing else is for sure at this time. Blu-ray? Players are out from Samsung and Panasonic. By the end of this year, Sony and Pioneer as well as Philips should be out. Sharp and LG should follow shortly thereafter. PS3 will ship with Blu-ray built into the box and likely a free movie to show people what the potential of Blu-ray is. All told: Blu-ray by March of next year should have 7 different manufacturers with at least 8 different players compared to 3 different manufacturers for HD-DVD and 4 different players.

In the end, the ONLY reason not to get Blu-ray is because it costs more. Perhaps if you absolutely, positively must have the Universal titles - right now. Over the next year, we may seem some shifting of loyalty and perhaps some studios will switch sides or produce in both formats, but as of now, there is no indication of that. For those who are worried, I recommend they wait. For those who want something but are worried, I would look into getting a PS3. I have mine pre-ordered with EB Games and because I did my homework, it only took me 15 minutes at the store to get on the pre-order list. Amazon and Toys-r-Us may be doing pre-orders as well soon.

Nice informative information.

[AV_Integrated]

Originally Posted by jason

Just to clarify something from one of the earlier posts, and please dont think Im bagging on BD, but Blu-ray is actually over 4 years old vs HD-DVD maybe year-year and half?

and of course getting more and more redundant... bd has more studio and ce support blah blah blah... but yet hd is still selling 3:1 or 11:1 (depending which source) to BD.

Please noone get defensive but I think its personaly pref. and comes down to the movies you actually want to see in Hi Def. Also of course the cost (which sucks btw)

Jason - It's actually not bagging, but some accurate info. The downside, is that it's very short-sighted as to the reality of the format.

Many consumers are waiting for PS3 - it's cheap, and it's PlayStation so in the midst of a format war you get killer gaming AND the next generation disc player. Others are waiting for their favorite brand - Sony, Panasonic, Pioneer, etc. Unlike HD-DVD which is a one trick show right now ala Toshiba, Blu-ray has some spectacular choices coming up.

So, the right time to look at numbers is AFTER this holiday season when the number of Blu-ray players on the market has tripled.

FYI: HD-DVD is an extension of the DVD technology - it has its roots in a combination of DVD and Blu-ray technologies - and has parts of it that are 10+ years old. So what? Blu-ray itself as it is currently released, has very little in common with the original Japanese Blu-ray players of 4 years ago. Call those the 'beta' products.

Heck - Holographic Versatile Disc (HVD) exists, but I wouldn't bet on that coming to market for many years at the earliest as a viable format... if it ever does.

I don't want to get personal - but not one HD-DVD supporter has reported a DVD collection that supports their decision. Almost every single consumer alive who has DVDs has MORE DVDs from studios that support Blu-ray. It is only the VERY short sighted individuals who go "But they have more movies right now, this second, that I want to buy." Those are the people who will get burned the most seriously in this format war and I frankly have very little respect for them.

All indicators are there that HD-DVD does NOT have the legs to keep up with what Blu-ray will offer over the next few years. It may be painful, but unless universal players come to market, or studios switch to neutrality AND more CE manufacturers get on board, HD-DVD will not survive.

That last part - those are the words I will be happy to eat and apologize for if necessary - but they are the words that I think will hold truest.

[ay221]

Originally Posted by nyg

Why not recommend the PS3 and the XBox 360 with the HD DVD add on? That $1200 will keep you covered and if one of both HD disc formats would fail, you still have two game consoles which are sure to have tons of games for years to come.

IMO the upcoming Toshiba A2 would be a better match since it has hdmi needed for the advanced codec. Unless MS comes out with an hdmi dogle (or whatever you call), you won't enjoy the high end audio.

What I plan to do. I have the PS3 on preorder. I will later get the cheap toshiba later next year. and then hook them both up to a hdmi 1.3 receiver with 7.1 channels (provided the price is under 1k).

[AV_Integrated]

Dongle

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dongle



Oh - the A2 ditches analog outputs and only has HDMI 1.2 so it won't necessarily be capable of the best audio codecs either unless it goes with a receiver that matches those codecs. Otherwise, it's optical or coaxial digital audio with the a2.

[hmurchison]

Originally Posted by AV_Integrated

Dongle

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dongle



Oh - the A2 ditches analog outputs and only has HDMI 1.2 so it won't necessarily be capable of the best audio codecs either unless it goes with a receiver that matches those codecs. Otherwise, it's optical or coaxial digital audio with the a2.

You only need to make sure your AVR has HDMI as the A2 will transcode the hirez fomats to PCM and send through HDMI. Even with this TrueHD should sound better than DD+ IMO

I'm looking at the Panasonci SA-XR57S